Feds say they thwarted militia plot to kidnap Governor Whitmer. Other state governments targeted too

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Then you understand the classical reference to violence ginned up by loose talk to the gullible.
 
I mean, if that’s how you make your livelihood I could see where that might push someone over the edge.
 
While I certainly don’t condone it, you never the stress other people are under what the final straw might be.

It doesn’t excuse his behavior, and all these men deserve prison, but when men feel as if they’ve been backed into a corner with no other option these are the actions they’ll resort to. We need to start examining why a growing population of the country feels disconnected to their communities and hopeless to the point this seems like a good choice. Sebastian Jungers book “Tribe” gives a lot of what I think are solid answers. It’s a very good critique of modern US society.
 
I thought the militia are supposed to be the “good guys”.

America first, anti-immigrant. FREEDOM All that.
 
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Victoria33 said:
Here’s one of the alleged conspirators, “Anarchist flag” by the way.
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meh… lame attempt by breitbart to deflect. I would surmise creating civil war is embracing a form of anarchy.
I’ll say one positive of all this, it’s nice to the FBI is still doing their job despite the president. Someone has to protect us from these terrorists.
 
I could name you a couple dozen peaceful punk musicians that have “anarchist flags”. People used to spray paint A’s on walls out of sheer boredom when I was young.

The guy is a nutcase domestic terrorist. No need to go looking for any more clues than that.
 
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Feanor2 said:
I thought the militia are supposed to be the “good guys”.
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Militia is just a term for not government force, something formed by the people. Militia can be good or can be tyrannical. Antifa can be easily clarified as a Militia, no doubt. But there are others as well.

Speaking for self, I grew up listening to people call them selves militia, and they where straight up anarchist. I only saw patriotic militia in movies.
 
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RhodesianSon said:
but when men feel as if they’ve been backed into a corner with no other option these are the actions they’ll resort to.
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That seems to be a convenient excuse. Maybe they could:

Run for office
Write a letter to the editor of a media outlet
Petition their representative
Stage a protest
 
Of course an anarchist flag. The far-right lunatic fringe does not believe in government, same as the far-left lunatic fringe. Unfortunately, these fringes are gaining in numbers.
 
Reading up on the kind of stuff they said, they seem like far-right libertarians. One of them said in a video that the “price of freedom is eternal vigilance” and another apparently was associated with the Ruby Ridge shootings and the Boogaloo movement (although I’m not entirely sure what the media thinks that means). At any rate the fact that they appealed to American patriotism and seemed to be staunch supporters of the Second Amendment makes it clear that they were American right-wing libertarians.
 
Regular_Atheist said:
the Boogaloo movement (although I’m not entirely sure what the media thinks that means).
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I think they just dump everybody in there who’s armed, loosely organized, and on the far right.

I hope they don’t go ruining the term “Boogaloo” for us all now so we can’t ever do the “_______ 2: Electric Boogaloo” meme again.

I’m already half afraid to wear a Hawaiian shirt anyplace for fear someone will assume I support the Proud Boys.
 
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RhodesianSon said:
but when men feel as if they’ve been backed into a corner with no other option these are the actions they’ll resort to. We need to start examining why a growing population of the country feels disconnected to their communities and hopeless to the point this seems like a good choice.
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You could be describing the BLM movement (the people, not the organization).

Apparently people on the right and people on the left aren’t very happy with the way things are going. I consider myself int he middle, and I’m not very happy, either.

Maybe if we stop the partisanship, we could come together, find common ground, and move forward.

Gerrymandering is causing us to have representatives that are further left or right than the population. A Bipartisan commission to draw congressional districts would be a start.
 
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PaulinVA said:
Gerrymandering is causing us to have representatives that are further left or right than the population. A Bipartisan commission to draw congressional districts would be a start.
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Gerrymandering isn’t the problem. It’s the nomination process that is the problem. For example, republican primaries nominating q.anon supporting kooks. but once they win their primary , they are on the ticket and then people vote their party lines. Placing irrational people in power that have no business whatsoever being in a position of power. this is getting ot for this thread however.
 
toabb said:
Gerrymandering isn’t the problem. It’s the nomination process that is the problem. For example, republican primaries nominating q.anon supporting kooks. but once they win their primary , they are on the ticket and then people vote their party lines.
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Right. And the district is a “safe” Republican district, so they elect a kook. If the district was competitive, this person wouldn’t have a chance.

Back to militias…
 
Nepperhan said:
Any of y’all see “the Fisher King”? Trump’s rhetoric can cause actions in others.
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Most people are able to watch the Fisher King…or listen to a politician…and still make good, moral decisions, even if they are upset about something. People are responsible for their own actions.

Same thing goes for the protests this summer. The majority of the protesters behaved well, did not destroy property or try to hurt anyone. The people who chose to go ballistic and loot, destroy property, set fires, physical attack others, and attempt to kill people were responsible for their OWN actions. It’s not the protest or the injustice that prompted the protest that caused them to choose to do wrong.

We have to be very careful that in our efforts to help people make good decisions, that we don’t censor free speech or prevent the printing or broadcasting of messages that we don’t agree with.

Many people in Michigan (and in Illiinois!–we are here, we are here!) are literally suffering because of the draconian shutdowns and policies enacted by our governors. Yet the vast majority of us do NOT make decisions to hurt those who are making those decisions, although there is plenty of movement in Illinois to make sure that Gov. Pritzker does NOT get re-elected, and there are plenty of lawsuits being filed against him and his policies that have destroyed the lives of many people. These actions are morally allowable, while hurting, kidnapping, etc. are despicable and evil.
 
You’re right it can easily apply to people all across the political spectrum. We live in a society that goes too far in promoting individualism, to the point that we’ve lost community. We can talk to people across the country, but it’s possible for a single person to go days without any meaningful, emotional, contact with a neighbor or physically present friend. There is no unity, and all the other ills we have as a society are symptoms of a lack of community. And I see no remedy for it.

“ > It may be worth considering whether middle-class American life—for all its material good fortune—has lost some essential sense of unity that might otherwise discourage alienated men from turning apocalyptically violent.

Sebastian Junger, Tribe: On Homecoming and Belonging

“ “First agriculture, and then industry, changed two fundamental things about the human experience. The accumulation of personal property allowed people to make more and more individualistic choices about their lives, and those choices unavoidably diminished group efforts toward a common good. And as society modernized, people found themselves able to live independently from any communal group. A person living in a modern city or suburb can, for the first time in history, go through an entire day – or an entire life – mostly encountering complete strangers. They can be surrounded by others and yet feel deeply, dangerously alone.” (18”

I think this is the biggest quote I took away from the book
  • The definition of community – of tribe – would be the group of people that you would both help feed and help defend. A society that doesn’t offer its members the chance to act selflessly in these ways isn’t a society in any tribal sense of the word; it’s just a political entity that, lacking enemies, will probably fall apart on its own.” (110)*
 
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