Feds say they thwarted militia plot to kidnap Governor Whitmer. Other state governments targeted too

[RidgeSprinter]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/08/politics/whitmer-kidnapping-criminal-complaint/index.html

13 were arrested:
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[Peebo]

Sounds right what you’re saying, I’d also add family ties are not what they were when I was a kid, (now in our mid 70’s). We hardly see our kids or grandkids, the farthest being 2 hours drive, I bought a large barbeque about 12 years ago so we could have family gatherings, Christmas, Thanksgiving etc, only ever used it once. If on the rare occasion they do come to visit it’s a quick visit, “well, gotta run”, so we are the ones who have to travel if we want to see them, sure we get on well together but it’s like they don’t have time for the old folks. Now when you get old the kids put you out to pasture as they don’t have the time, or the patience to look after you, not that either of us are at that stage. I watch Rick Steves Europe often and see how in some of the European countries families look after their parents, grandparents, they include them in all family gatherings, our neighbors are the same, sure the kids love them, call them to see how they’re doing, but visit, to busy.

 

[TMC]

makes it clear that they were American right-wing libertarians.

You left out a word. They are American right-wing libertarian terrorists.

 

[RhodesianSon]

I think it crosses all generations in the states.

Young kids spend more time online than playing outside so they don’t have “real friends” to build bonds with.

Families in particular are broken, the divorce rate/single motherhood rate is astronomical. So kids have no real sense of belonging at home as they watch a string of moms boyfriends come and go over the years.

Parents get shoved into nursing homes rather than living and being cared for by their children.

We are a nation of solitary islands with just enough links to sustain life but not create community and meaningfulness.

 

[PaulinVA]

You’re right it can easily apply to people all across the political spectrum. We live in a society that goes too far in promoting individualism, to the point that we’ve lost community

The definition of community – of tribe – would be the group of people that you would both help feed and help defend. A society that doesn’t offer its members the chance to act selflessly in these ways isn’t a society in any tribal sense of the word; it’s just a political entity that, lacking enemies, will probably fall apart on its own.”

That’s interesting, and quite true. I think, though, that the American tribe has splintered. Do we even agree on what the common good is?

 

[Peebo]

Families are a blessing from God, it’s what holds us together as a community, and as a nation, sadly neither seems to apply anymore.

 

[DeniseNY]

I certainly hope Biden doesn’t win, but at the same time I give it a 50-50 chance there will be armed conflict if he does win.

There is more than likely going to be conflict regardless of who wins

 

[KMC]

Do we even agree on what the common good is?

Sadly, we don’t. It used to be if someone said they were a socialist, they would automatically be an outcast…now they are embraced. We have people who deny men are men and women are women. Violence is now an option to those who can’t get their way. People now protest outside of politician’s homes and threaten them. I never would have considered this stuff imaginable 20 years ago. We need the days like when Reagan and O’Neill would drink a beer together after a day of vigorous debate, or when polar opposites like Gingrich and Clinton could find compromise.

Given young people’s inability to engage in respectful debate, I don’t see the future with a positive outlook.

 

[RhodesianSon]

Do we even agree on what the common good is?

I would bet not. There’s probably regional agreeance, but nationwide? Absolutely not.

You should read the book that quotes from. It’s very good, not very long, and is available on audible if you prefer audio books.

 

[PaulinVA]

Do you remember Ralph the Wolf and Sam the Sheepdog cartoons? They would commute together to the field, Ralph would try to steal sheep and Sam would stop him, the 5 o’clock whistle would blow, and they’d ride home together.

That is not possible now. We are really good at dehumanizing the enemy. And, the extremists on both sides are really loud.

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[TMC]

With respect, I have to disagree. There was a period in US history when it sure seemed like everyone “got along” - mostly from the end of WWII until probably the mid-80s or early 90s. I would argue that was an anomaly caused by the Cold War. The fact is that there wasn’t a nickle’s difference between a mainstream Dem and a mainstream GOP in those days. I remember that as a common complaint at election time - what’s the difference?

Politics before WWII were actually much more divisive, much more diverse, and much more violent. In the post-War period, all mainstream American politicians were slightly different flavors of hawkish free market capitalists - you had to be in that time. Before the war we had socialists, communists, pacifists - and all the other “-ists”.

So I think that we are returning to a more normal political state. Add to that that we have expanded the electorate to include women and non-whites, and you have even more diversity.

I agree that it makes it a difficult time, but I am optimistic. The renewed diversity of our body politic, combined with the energy being brought to the table, could result in renewal and growth for our country. That comes with risks, but all growth entails risk.

 

[MikeInVA]

Parents get shoved into nursing homes rather than living and being cared for by their children.

It seems that most Americans outsource the important stuff - raising their kids and caring for the elderly.

 

[KMC]

I do have to admit that my world view encompasses mostly my lifetime…your reference to pre-WW2 history is duly noted and appreciated.

I do think that a move to violence as a solution to political issues is regressive and a step back. We are also punishing people for expressing their viewpoints…express the wrong one and you are censored, possibly physically attacked, and even fired. Diversity of participation in the body politic is good, but its also important to realize that diversity of thought is a strength too, but that is exactly what is under attack today. Simply ask a black conservative what people think of their diversity of thought.

I appreciate your perspective, but from my viewpoint,

 

[RhodesianSon]

We also live in a society where two incomes are almost necessary to have decent standard of living so what other options do they have? It’s a multifaceted failure of the materialist values America puts up as its most sacred idols.

 

[Nepperhan]

People are responsible for their own actions.

There were two cops shot dead in Pittsburgh because a kid thought Obama was coming to get his guns. He had been listening to NRA rhetoric.

People are responsible for their actions but there are irresponsible and naive people out there.

 

[TMC]

People are responsible for their actions but there are irresponsible and naive people out there.

Those that commit acts of violence are absolutely responsible for those acts. Those that instigate them to violence are also absolutely responsible for their acts. Inciting violence and committing violence are separate acts. Both carry the weight of responsibility, both legally and morally.

 

[Nepperhan]

With respect, I have to disagree. There was a period in US history when it sure seemed like everyone “got along” - mostly from the end of WWII until probably the mid-80s or early 90s.

Did you miss out on the sixties and early seventies? My! ‘Days of Rage’ was not a garden party. The fifties were prosperous (compared to the Depression) but they also gave us Emmett Till and Orval Faubus.

 

[TMC]

Did you miss out on the sixties and early seventies? My! ‘Days of Rage’ was not a garden party. The fifties were prosperous (compared to the Depression) but they also gave us Emmett Till and Orval Faubus.

A good point. I was pointing out that violence in politics was also common in the past. I should not have breezed over the political violence of the sixties and early seventies.

 

[HarryStotle]

Of course an anarchist flag. The far-right lunatic fringe does not believe in government, same as the far-left lunatic fringe. Unfortunately, these fringes are gaining in numbers.

I thought such groups were merely “ideas” or “movements?” Or do you think, as Biden seems to, that only those on the left are to be benignly designated?

Pandering to anarchists and sociopaths, as the mayors of Seattle, Portland and Minneapolis have done, is unleashing the kind of anarchy that they have already started to regret. Portland mayor, Ted Wheeler had his apartment building attacked and now is losing his mayoralty race to a woman who openly declares she is Antifa.

It could very well be, that Whitmer is learning, just as Wheeler and Minneapolis mayor, Jacob Frey, have learned, just because you are on the left does not mean you are far enough on the left for the extremists on the left. Enabling these groups does not mean they will easily be reeled in when the time comes. Leftist mayors and governors are playing with fire that they fanned but will burn them in the end.

Several members of this group have been researched. They don’t appear to be on the right.

Turns out one of Whitmer’s plotters, 23-year-old Daniel Harris, attended BLM protests, was reportedly upset about George Floyd and police violence - left wing talking points.

Another, Brandon Caserta, hates President Trump and is on video calling Trump a “tyrant.”

https://twitter.com/x/status/1314326553506000897

they were American right-wing libertarians.

I suggest you stop attempting to connect right-wing and libertarians with anarchists. There aren’t left-wing or right-wing anarchists. These are completely different political positions and dumping the three together is low resolution thinking that merely muddies the water. Anarchists are their own special breed.

The evidence is pointing to them not being on the right at all, so beyond merely asserting they are “right-wing,” do you have any hard evidence that they are?

 

[Regular_Atheist]

There’s a description of the individuals involved in this article:

Feds say they thwarted militia plot to kidnap Whitmer

For the record I don’t think it matters whether they are left-wing or right-wing in the sense that everyone on the right would be responsible if they were. But it’s pretty clear that they’re heavily influenced by that brand of incredibly American libertarianism, that values constitutionalism and individual rights and believes that the “tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.” They spoke about defending the Bill of Rights, they flew the Confederate flag, and seemed to care greatly about violations of the constitution.

There aren’t left-wing or right-wing anarchists.

There absolutely are. Left-wing anarchists are generally what you would expect anarchists to be, people following in the tradition of Proudhon, Bakunin and Kropotkin, social anarchists who attacked capitalism and were involved in the International Workingman’s Association with Marx. These guys are a different breed (although somewhere similar, in a way) and are clearly more associated with the right given how much they care about things like the US Constitution.