Feds say they thwarted militia plot to kidnap Governor Whitmer. Other state governments targeted too

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billsherman . . .
I would love to hear how someone could come up with an anarchist interpretation of Marxism . . .
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I’m glad you would love to hear it.

For lessons on this
see how they carry out their agenda.

Go beyond words and observe actions.

Even with the paradigm they are trying here in America (Fabian Socialism or incremental socialism), many can’t help themselves and start to trash and burn their cities when they can’t have their way.
 
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See, we are discussing different things. You are talking about anarchy in the sense of chaos and destruction, looting and riots. I am talking about anarchy in the sense of the political and economic system. These are different.
Even with the paradigm they are trying here in America (Fabian Socialism or incremental socialism), many can’t help themselves and start to trash and burn their cities when they can’t have their way.
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This is a silly narrative. There are no significant Marxists in American politics attempting any “Fabian” program, to begin with.
 
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Regular_Atheist . . .
I am talking about anarchy in the sense of the political . . . system.
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Well that takes seals it then.

It’s a good thing that the leftist Democrats have not been floating ideas to bring about political anarchy. . .

It’s a good thing the leftists have not been pushing or at least being neutral about . . . .

Court Packing.
16 year-olds voting.
Prisoners voting.
Felons voting.
Ridding America of the Electoral College.
Refusing to have voter ID when their power allows them to.
Adding mechanisms that make election fraud easy.
Statehood for DC.
Statehood for Puerto Rico.
Using Government Agencies to spy on political opponents.
Fake pretexts to impeach a President.
Amnesty for illegal aliens.

.

Regular_Atheist on my statement concerning Fabian Socialism in America . . .
This is a silly narrative. There are no significant Marxists in American politics attempting any “Fabian” program, to begin with.
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It is right on.

And the more aware Americans are of it, the less likely they are to imbibe it.
 
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sloancaprice said:
What’s wrong with statehood for Puerto Rico?
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Nothing. Puerto Ricans are US citizens. There are about twice as many US citizens in Puerto Rico as there are in Hawaii, three times as many as in Montana. It should be a state.
 
I wouldn’t mind seeing the whole union dissolved and all the states and territories going their own way.

But, at the very least, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Guam, and the Virgin Islands, should become independent.
 
RhodesianSon said:
I wouldn’t mind seeing the whole union dissolved and all the states and territories going their own way.

But, at the very least, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Guam, and the Virgin Islands, should become independent.
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OK, well that is a pretty minority opinion to say the least.

Given that we do not dissolve the union, shouldn’t the 3 million plus citizens that live in Puerto Rico get the full advantages of citizenship like the rest of us?
 
TMC said:
shouldn’t the 3 million plus citizens that live in Puerto Rico get the full advantages of citizenship like the rest of us?
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If you’re looking at it in a it would be fair/egalitarian/just way, probably.

But in the spirit of Realpolitik I say no because it would give another guaranteed handful of electoral college votes to the democratic candidate every election, 2 more democratic senators, and however many house members. Since that undermines my own best interest I do not support them getting the benefits of citizenship.
 
RhodesianSon said:
If you’re looking at it in a it would be fair/egalitarian/just way, probably.

But in the spirit of Realpolitik I say no because it would give another guaranteed handful of electoral college votes to the democratic candidate every election, 2 more democratic senators, and however many house members. Since that undermines my own best interest I do not support them getting the benefits of citizenship.
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That is at least honest. I don’t think it is right to deny full rights to millions of Americans for partisan reasons. I also think it is short sighted. The governor of PR just endorsed Trump, for example. It could well be that PR is a “red” state in the future. Remember it was not that long ago that Texas voted “blue”.
 
I also think there’s enough of a difference in people and culture between Puerto Rican’s and mainland Americans that it would be detrimental to make them a state. As an independent nation, and majority catholic, I think they could do many things better than what the US is capable of.
 
RhodesianSon said:
I also think there’s enough of a difference in people and culture between Puerto Rican’s and mainland Americans that it would be detrimental to make them a state. As an independent nation, and majority catholic, I think they could do many things better than what the US is capable of.
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I don’t agree on the cultural point. They are Americans, and not any more different than average Americans than folks that live in other states. Seems to me the only reason they are not a state is the partisan issue.
 
Speaking for myself . . . . It is imperialism FORCING statehood on a territory.

DOJ rejects statehood for Puerto Rico — so do Puerto Ricans​

By Aníbal Acevedo-Vilá, — 08/08/20 03:00 PM EDT

. . . It is an inherent contradiction to claim the moral high-ground of fairness, inclusion and democracy when arguing for a rigged “pro-statehood” process that, by definition, excludes the majority of voters in Puerto Rico who have repeatedly voted against annexation and who favor other legally valid options, such as more autonomy for the commonwealth, free association or outright independence. If statehood is the only option on the ballot, voters in Puerto Rico would find themselves shutout of the process this November when confronted with this sham vote.

As DOJ stated in its July 29 letter to the Puerto Rico Elections Commission, “…the Department’s approval and funding of the plebiscite may be seen as an endorsement of these (pro-Statehood) views and a rejection of other available status options.” To deny that excluding valid options from a supposedly democratic process is unfair is an outright disenfranchisement of Puerto Ricans who support other paths to decolonizing our people.

Puerto Ricans directly rejected statehood at the ballot box in plebiscites held in 1967, 1993, and 1998. In 2012 and 2017, the people rejected the entire process outright . . .

. . . The fact is that most Puerto Ricans do want equality. We desire Puerto Rico and the United States to have a relationship among equals (“de tú a tú” as we say in our native Spanish language). Our dignity as a people, our right to have the freedom to determine our own future, and the potential for a more mutually beneficial partnership with the United States are core principles Puerto Ricans embrace. Puerto Rico is a nation, from the sociological point of view, that has a unique relationship with the U.S. based on a constitution of our own drafting and approval. Congress unfairly interfered with our affairs when it enacted PROMESA. This U.S. federal law imposed seven people as an unelected fiscal control board that stripped the island’s elected officials of their power in contravention of our own expansive constitutional powers. It was so unfair that Federal Circuit Judge Juan Torruella called for civil resistance and an economic boycott, after denouncing PROMESA as “the most denigrating, disrespectful, anti-democratic, and colonial act” the United States has perpetrated against the people of Puerto Rico. . . .
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The fact is, this is a political gimmick by Democrats who are seeking DESTRUCTION of the electoral college (but will take packing it too via Senators from Puerto Rico). That is WHY they are not calling for statehood on a much more-Republican Guam for example.
. . . Guam has a personality more than a values-based party affiliation. Jesse Lujan, a former Democratic senatorial candidate who was later elected as a Republican senator, said that politics are “Guam’s favorite pastime, favorite sports basically.”

According to former Democratic Party of Guam State Chairman Joaquin Perez, the dominance of the Church and religion is evident on issues such as abortion and gambling. . . .
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It is just more Democrat Imperialism that will probably drag us into an armed conflict. (Something else Democrats are very adept at – dragging the US into armed conflicts.)
 
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Feanor2 said:
What’s your issue with Puerto Rico?
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the answer is here bolded by me
RhodesianSon said:
But in the spirit of Realpolitik I say no because it would give another guaranteed handful of electoral college votes to the democratic candidate every election, 2 more democratic senators, and however many house members. Since that undermines my own best interest I do not support them getting the benefits of citizenship.
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Puerto Rico Gov. Wanda Vázquez Garced Endorses President Donald Trump​

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RICARDO ARDUENGO/AFP via Getty Images

Joshua Caplan

6 Oct 2020

Puerto Rico Gov. Wanda Vázquez Garced endorsed President Donald Trump for reelection in a Tuesday interview with Telemundo, urging Puerto Ricans living in the United States to vote for the president.

“I ask all Puerto Ricans who are listening to go vote,” the governor told the news outlet. “They have to go to vote, exercise their right to vote and evaluate who has represented being a person who thinks about Puerto Ricans and their needs at the most difficult moment: It is Donald Trump.” . . .

. . . The development comes after Vázquez was scheduled to campaign with President Donald Trump in Central Florida, but the event was canceled due to the president contracting the Chinese coronavirus . . .

. . . Vázquez made the endorsement despite President Trump opposing Puerto Rican statehood, something the governor is in favor of. Puerto Ricans living on the island are ineligible to vote in November’s White House election.

In August, Vázquez lost the primary of her pro-statehood party to Pedro Pierluisi, who served a short stint as the territory’s governor last year.
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