People in this thread have actually argued against women having certain jobs because it puts them in competition with men.
As I said, feminism has never been good. Secularists didn’t do anything to it. It is what it was. IMHO Pope JP II was not talking about secular feminism but the gift God gave women.
Yes, I have read those posts and in some ways they are right. Women competing in the workforce has made it harder for men to work and provide for their family. Though, there have always been women who have had to work.
First wave feminism focused mainly on legal rights for women - such as the right to vote. How is that not good?
That is partly true. It is what feminists fought for but it was not the heart of the feminist movement. Again, watch the movie I linked you will see what was also a motivation at that time and what was in their hearts.
I agree that over the millenia women have not been treated well. There is no doubting that but our freedoms, our rights do not come from feminists but from God and in the U.S., from the Constitution.
I can not answer that, having not known your grandmother. Fighting for the right to vote and being a feminist can be two different things. Just like fighting against domestic abuse and being a feminist can be two different things.
As I am saying, the right to vote was something women fought for but it didn’t necessarily mean they were feminists, least ways in the terminology used today but much of the feminist movement at that time was pushing for abortion. To deny it, is to deny a part of history. There were definitely women whose only interest was the right to vote.
This is true. But things like equal pay, and fair treatment in the workplace and hiring practices have been accomplished by women. If not for them causing a huge racket, laws wouldn’t be signed.
True but much of this can and was accomplished outside of the feminist movement. Again, these things were part of the motivation not all.
Well you could also say that if feminism was good, he would not have called for a new feminism.
Not true!
Lucky for you, because I’ve never said feminism was good, but that there’s some good that they have accomplished
Here we will just have to agree to disagree because looking at and reading history, it is true.
I am not sure what is lucky for me. I don’t follow luck. I follow Christ.
It was a part of it in some circles, sure. But it was far from the “main” point of the movement. And it definitely was not at the heart.
Funny that because I’ve been looking and reading history too. Surely with the death of RBG, some of these laws would have come up recently.
Christ gave the blueprint, flawed people fought to teach and convince others to realise it and enforce it by law. Some took it and made their own sketches to certain parts, others stuck to it. This has been the same for evangelism, women’s rights, civil rights, etc. Do you genuinely think women had the right to vote, be in juries, own property, open a bank account herself etc from the very beginning, or if not, that people randomly chose to let us do so without the nudging of feminists? Or are you letting your traumatic history of being a flawed feminist get in the way of better judgement? I’ll stick to Catholic feminism, the one JPII asked of us! I have been aware of the nastiness surrounding the movement, I just don’t feel the need to look at everybody the same way, or act as if all the rights I have today had nothing to do with the women I can’t stand (lol).
I don’t see how that’s relevant. You are fixated on a particular group of women with a fixed set of values in a certain era, while most of us are speaking of a ideology. I guess I get it for older women who felt left behind, as feminism was pretty militant about working/eschewing traditional femininity back then. As of recently, feminism has been more open in some areas, and annoying in others. Maybe that’s why we’re talking past each other.
I think some people here have posted pro life quotes from early feminists/suffragettes before. They were still flawed women (some being extremely racist), but abortion has never been The Goal from the very start for all feminists.
There are many women who followed and today follow the feminist movement because of something they see they are fighting for but most women do not understand what the motivation is behind those pushing feminism.
As I said and in all charity, we will have to agree to disagree here. I would suggest reading Phyllis Schlafleys book, Who Killed the American Family or watch some of her debates from the 70’s. You will be surprised to hear what the lead feminists state are their biggest fear of losing.
Absolutely. Outside of the right to vote, which women, feminist or not did fight for, many women did have bank accounts, go to college, own property and more long before the feminist movement came along. Even all the way back in the O. T. Deborah, a woman, was a judge at the city gates.
I did not say it was traumatic?? and it wasn’t flawed?? feminism. (Feminism is already flawed) It is about being red-pilled and coming to understand the evil behind the feminist movement and coming to know what the womanhood is that God calls us to.
Well, it certainly is not the feminism you find in the secular world.
So, you can’t stand them?
As in this thread and as your above comments suggest, if you are anti-feminist, you are against women working or believe women never had rights. I am just showing that women did and can have rights without feminism.
I am not fixated on any particular group or era (as if you could know that from a couple of comments). I am speaking of the feminist movement as a whole. If you do not do that or see it that way, you are not understanding what it is about.
I am not sure if you are speaking of me, as an older woman (since that is something else you wouldn’t know) feeling left behind (what??) but yes, feminism was very militant in the 70s as it is today.
The term “first wave” may not have been used until later, but the word feminism has been used since the late 1890s