Feminism is infiltrating every aspect of society

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mikew262:
I missed your Post #5, so I’ll retract what I said regarding that.

Concerning, whether its a trend or not that women are wanting to say home (as you say), I’m still waiting on some stats. Concerning the time I grew up (and before), it was more natural for women to stay home, that was the culture of the time. In the 70’s that started to change.
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As far as stats, I’ve already referred you to that Time magazine as well as 2 books. Plus, isn’t it common sense that children will be worse off with less time spent with their parents?
After a quick Google search and review, Kate O’Beirn appears to be very conservative and anti-feminist. As such, her opinions are on the far right, thus very biased.
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She is not an extremist of any sort, although she is anti-feminist as am I. Why don’t you just read the book and find out for yourself?
Being only 20 yrs old, you have no actual experience to fall back on (that I’m aware of), only what you read and hear.
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What experience do I need?
As I stated before, the vast majority of children raised by 2 parents working ended up just fine…This comes from actual experience, not reading something in a book.
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Where are your stats? Oh! You go by “experience.” I see. :rolleyes: Anyways, got to go study for a big test tomorrow. Later folks.

BTW, you may want to read my essay on feminism…or maybe not. 😛
 
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JSmitty2005:
Of course you’re not. Look at the age you grew up in, the 6660’s, as I like to call them. Just a few months ago, this was the cover story of Time or some other liberal magazine, so that shows you how true it must be considering it goes contrary to their bias.
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The 6660’s?

Nevermind, I even can’t construct a polite response.

Kendy

P.S. If I recall that evil decade included things like the civil rights movement, which challenged a long history of evil in American society. I don’t understand how things like women is evil, but decades of thousands of black people being lynched is the good old days. :rolleyes:
 
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JSmitty2005:
What experience do I need?

Where are your stats? Oh! You go by “experience.” I see. :rolleyes:
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Experience is the best teacher. When you get some under your belt, you’ll see that.
 
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JSmitty2005:
As far as stats, I’ve already referred you to that Time magazine as well as 2 books. Plus, isn’t it common sense that children will be worse off with less time spent with their parents?

She is not an extremist of any sort, although she is anti-feminist as am I. Why don’t you just read the book and find out for yourself?

What experience do I need?

Where are your stats? Oh! You go by “experience.” I see. :rolleyes: Anyways, got to go study for a big test tomorrow. Later folks.

BTW, you may want to read my essay on feminism…or maybe not. 😛
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Actually, there is plenty of reseach out there. Last one I read was by the American Psychological Association, which shows that children of working moms are no worst of than those of stay at home moms.

I don’t have time to pull the article right now since I am currently engaged in the great evil of paid labor, but I will did some stats for you as soon as I can.

Kendy
 
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mikew262:
Being only 20 yrs old, you have no actual experience to fall back on (that I’m aware of), only what you read and hear. As I stated before, the vast majority of children raised by 2 parents working ended up just fine.

I will admit having 1 parent at home with a child while they are growing up is generally a more positive thing. However, both parents working is not a receipe for disaster either. This comes from actual experience, not reading something in a book.
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As a woman reared in the 70s and 80s by a working parents, I have to respectfully disagree. I have actual experience both as a child of working parents and as a mom. Working moms should be an exception not a norm. Disaster is strong word. I’m not sure what a good word is for putting yourself ahead of your children.

Again, we must orient ourselves to servanthood, not self fulfillment or material wealth.

Standard disclaimer: yes, some mothers must work due to poverty. sigh.
 
I’ve never done such a thing.
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I should hope not, and I want to think not, but…
I do not think that women should work but should be mothers and housewives. HOWEVER, in America, some families are forced to have both parents work.
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Maybe I’m wrong, but this sounds like you are saying that no woman should work and that all women should only be mothers and housewives, except when circumstances force the need for two incomes.

If that is what you mean, then how can you claim you don’t seek to hold women down? If you think all any woman is good for is being a wife and mother, you’re belittling a lot of us. (Except that belittling is not strong enough a word). And please note, that I never have and never will belittle those women who do become housewives and stay-at-home moms.

Let me just ask you a question: do you believe that different women have different callings, and that no one has a right to determine that calling except the woman and God? If so, then we’re on the same side. If not, then we’ll have to agree to differ. 🙂
 
JMJ Theresa:
I’m not sure what a good word is for putting yourself ahead of your children.

Again, we must orient ourselves to servanthood, not self fulfillment or material wealth.

Standard disclaimer: yes, some mothers must work due to poverty. sigh.
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I suspect you would get some serious rebuttal from many working mothers. I don’t know about your actual situation, but maybe you had some bad experiences. Many working mothers provided great role models for their children, as a previous poster stated.

Putting yourself ahead of your children? Unfair statement to alot of good mothers. Servanthood? A little extreme.
 
JMJ Theresa:
As a woman reared in the 70s and 80s by a working parents, I have to respectfully disagree. I have actual experience both as a child of working parents and as a mom. Working moms should be an exception not a norm. Disaster is strong word. I’m not sure what a good word is for putting yourself ahead of your children.

Again, we must orient ourselves to servanthood, not self fulfillment or material wealth.

Standard disclaimer: yes, some mothers must work due to poverty. sigh.
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My clients would be shocked to find out that I don’t serve them.

Kendy
 
Sigh. I have to repeat that servanthood must first be directed towards the persons that God has placed in your care.

So, of course, we serve others outside of our family. However, if you have children and a husband they must have first claim.

So, Kendy, I wasn’t saying servanthood is limited to your family. Just that they have first claim.

Are you deliberately misunderstanding me?
 
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mikew262:
I suspect you would get some serious rebuttal from many working mothers. I don’t know about your actual situation, but maybe you had some bad experiences. Many working mothers provided great role models for their children, as a previous poster stated.

Putting yourself ahead of your children? Unfair statement to alot of good mothers. Servanthood? A little extreme.
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I would suggest Pope John Paul II’s encyclicals Familiaris Consortio and On the Dignity of Woman to explain a good theology of servanthood in the family.

My experiences were not “bad” just typical. 🙂
 
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JSmitty2005:
So, they reject any kind of “roles.” It’s really quite absurd. Men and women are different not only biologically but also mentally, emotionally, and spiritually, so there will naturally be things that the majority of men are generally better at than women and vice versa. Anyways, the bottom line is that we are fulfilled in who we are and not in what our career is. Until you recognize that, then none of you will ever see where I’m coming from (as well as the Church and most of your ancestors).
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Well, I agree with all of this. But there is nothing wrong with me or anyone else cherishing their roles outside the home, including careers. I know people can get too wrapped up in their careers, but not all career professionals do that. I greatly cherish my profession. It truly is one of my callings in life. It affords me the opportunity to lead, teach, assist, and support an entire university and an entire society by extension. Not just anyone can do what I do. Lots of people would go bonkers in my job!

We each have a choice, no matter what our work may be. We can either let it enslave us, or we can sanctify it, make it holy, and use it to serve the Lord and our fellow man. It’s a conscious choice we have to make. I choose to sanctify my work, no matter what it may be at any given moment (my career, cleaning house, writing a novel, cooking a meal, etc.).

I think I mentioned before that I would be happy in the extreme if I were blessed with a chance to marry and have a family. And if I truly felt called to become a stay at home mom, then I wouldn’t have the least reservation about it. The only thing I have a problem with is other people trying to tell me what my calling is or isn’t. I’m always open to the opinions of people I know and trust, of course, but they also love and trust me enough to do what’s best.
 
Here’s two working moms that I greatly admire:

Zelie Martin–St Therese’s mom. She greatly desired to not work, but she was the primary breadwinner.

St. Gianna Molla–a physician, mom and martyr
 
First, I am not implying that this works out this way for everyone, but I had this job working with a number of teenagers of stay at home moms and I noticed that many of these children lacked independence skills. By the way, none of these parents were strng Christians and maybe, that made a difference. But these kids were incompetent. They couldn’t do anything for themselves. Their moms were their personal assistants. In fact, I could detect no real difference between the children of working moms than those of stay at home moms…other than the children of SAHM were occasionally (not always) more demanding since they were used to their mothers responding to their every need and they obviously thought that our staff would be the same way.

I also remember going to college and meeting girls who couldn’t had never had to do their own laundry. One girl confused the washer and dryer.

And my mom stayed home until I was ten, and that’s exactly how she was. She did everything for us, and we were completely incompentent. And then she had to work so we had to figure out how to fix our own breakfasts, and iron our own clothes, and make our own beds. When we got older, we had to use public transportation to get to school. And frankly, I am really glad she went to work. I think the temptation to do everything for one’s children is pretty great, and perhaps being too busy to do that might benefit your children in some ways.

Kendy
 
JMJ Theresa:
I would suggest Pope John Paul II’s encyclicals Familiaris Consortio and On the Dignity of Woman to explain a good theology of servanthood in the family.

My experiences were not “bad” just typical. 🙂
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Providing a good living and upbringing for your children, and showing your children that you can be whatever you want to be and not be harnessed by stereotypes (woman’s place is in the home), as well as, still be a good mother is what many feel is good parenting as well (sorry for the run-on sentence).

There is nothing wrong with a stay-at-home mother, and if that’s your preference, thats fine. However, if a mother chooses to work, for whatever reason, it’s unfair/uncalled for to judge her.
 
JMJ Theresa:
Sigh. I have to repeat that servanthood must first be directed towards the persons that God has placed in your care.

So, of course, we serve others outside of our family. However, if you have children and a husband they must have first claim.

So, Kendy, I wasn’t saying servanthood is limited to your family. Just that they have first claim.

Are you deliberately misunderstanding me?
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I was deliberately misunderstanding you. I agree that your family should come first.

Kendy
 
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Kendy:
First, I am not implying that this works out this way for everyone, but I had this job working with a number of teenagers of stay at home moms and I noticed that many of these children lacked independence skills. By the way, none of these parents were strng Christians and maybe, that made a difference. But these kids were incompetent. They couldn’t do anything for themselves. Their moms were their personal assistants. In fact, I could detect no real difference between the children of working moms than those of stay at home moms…other than the children of SAHM were occasionally (not always) more demanding since they were used to their mothers responding to their every need and they obviously thought that our staff would be the same way.

I also remember going to college and meeting girls who couldn’t had never had to do their own laundry. One girl confused the washer and dryer.

And my mom stayed home until I was ten, and that’s exactly how she was. She did everything for us, and we were completely incompentent. And then she had to work so we had to figure out how to fix our own breakfasts, and iron our own clothes, and make our own beds. When we got older, we had to use public transportation to get to school. And frankly, I am really glad she went to work. I think the temptation to do everything for one’s children is pretty great, and perhaps being too busy to do that might benefit your children in some ways.

Kendy
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A great testimony! 👍 Not a slam against “stay-at-home” moms, but it shows it’s not the end all, beat all either.
 
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Kendy:
I was deliberately misunderstanding you. I agree that your family should come first.

Kendy
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Thanks Kendy, I appreciate that. When I read your posts, I appreciate your honesty and intelligent arguments.

I don’t know if this will be your experience, but in my young adulthood, I had similar views that you have espoused. Only after studying the Church’s teachings (most JP II) and livin’ it, have I come to value the vocation of motherhood lived in the home. It was a real struggle for me.

I hope all the young women reading this thread will take time to read Familiaris Consortio and On the Dignity of Woman by JP II so that they will be well formed in this theology as they start their families.
 
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Kendy:
First, I am not implying that this works out this way for everyone, but I had this job working with a number of teenagers of stay at home moms and I noticed that many of these children lacked independence skills. By the way, none of these parents were strng Christians and maybe, that made a difference. But these kids were incompetent. They couldn’t do anything for themselves. Their moms were their personal assistants. In fact, I could detect no real difference between the children of working moms than those of stay at home moms…other than the children of SAHM were occasionally (not always) more demanding since they were used to their mothers responding to their every need and they obviously thought that our staff would be the same way.

I also remember going to college and meeting girls who couldn’t had never had to do their own laundry. One girl confused the washer and dryer.

And my mom stayed home until I was ten, and that’s exactly how she was. She did everything for us, and we were completely incompentent. And then she had to work so we had to figure out how to fix our own breakfasts, and iron our own clothes, and make our own beds. When we got older, we had to use public transportation to get to school. And frankly, I am really glad she went to work. I think the temptation to do everything for one’s children is pretty great, and perhaps being too busy to do that might benefit your children in some ways.

Kendy
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Actually, having a big family also “forces” you to train them.

My mom worked and I was as incompetent as anybody. It takes time to train kids.

I think parent needs to train kids in life skills 🙂
 
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