Feminism is infiltrating every aspect of society

[JSmitty2005]

JMJ Theresa:

hey!!! I vehemently disagree that rearing your children is not putting your brain and skills and talent to good use!!

You’re right. That’s the best way to put them to use whether you’re a mother or father. But men’s brains and skills are naturally more directed towards protection and providing financially while a mother is much better at nurturing and raising her children than the father.

 

[TarAshly]

How is maintaining a career putting yourself before children?
Working parents can provide a future for their kids. I didnt marry a millionaire or even a six figure hubby, so I have to work and will always work. A working mom is no less than a non working mom, in fact a working mom is pulling double duty! Is a working mom better than a SAHM? no of course not but shes got two full time jobs.
JMJ Theresa:

As a woman reared in the 70s and 80s by a working parents, I have to respectfully disagree. I have actual experience both as a child of working parents and as a mom. Working moms should be an exception not a norm. Disaster is strong word. I’m not sure what a good word is for putting yourself ahead of your children.

Again, we must orient ourselves to servanthood, not self fulfillment or material wealth.

Standard disclaimer: yes, some mothers must work due to poverty. sigh.

 

[TarAshly]

I didnt say they werent, I just meant that women are good for more than raising kids, I know my mom used every bit of herself to raise us, but she also held down a full time job. Obviously being a stay at home mom would be preferable all around. its better for the children, the husband and the wife, but there are some women who cant do it, who feel like they need to work and provide financially in their households and need the challenge of a career, that doesnt make them any better and it doesnt make them any worse, its not a wrong opinion just because its different. I want to be a mom but I also want to be a high school teacher, I can do both.
JMJ Theresa:

hey!!! I vehemently disagree that rearing your children is not putting your brain and skills and talent to good use!!

 

[Orionthehunter]

JSmitty2005:

Is there anyone on this thread that disagrees with the following statement?:

IF a woman is a wife and mother, then her primary duty should be that of a wife and mother.

Nope. And if a man is a husband and father, then his primary duty should be that of a husband and father.

Does anyone disagree with that both statements are equally true?

If everyone believes they are both true, we should judge less the decisions of individual families on how they divide child-rearing obligations.

There was a poster who defended SAHM’s and that it was a Catholic point of view. I agree it is a view perfectly compatible w/ the Church’s expectation of a family. I also assume that the poster wasn’t implying that a family whose mother works outside the home is less compatible w/ the Church’s expectation of a family.

All some of are reacting to is the implication that choices made different than what is right for some are somehow inherently inferior, less Catholic, or less focused on the family.

From Jsmitty: But men’s brains and skills are naturally more directed towards protection and providing financially while a mother is much better at nurturing and raising her children than the father.

JSmitty, this is a very broad statement for a young man w/ as little experience and perspective as yourself. You really should confine your generalizations to areas that your knowledge and expertise is more relevant and be less judgmental of those who have a different formula. While I’m the primary breadwinner in my family, my wife and I essentially divided the child-rearing obligations. Regarding the housework, if it was inside it was her responsiblity. If it was outside or garage, it was mine. Cooking was divided about 65-35 w/ her preparing the better meals only becuase she cared what we ate. A diet of hamburgers, pizza, and chili worked for me.

 

[Kendy]

JSmitty2005:

You’re right. That’s the best way to put them to use whether you’re a mother or father. But men’s brains and skills are naturally more directed towards protection and providing financially while a mother is much better at nurturing and raising her children than the father.

Recently, women have been getting professional degrees at higher rates than men. In fact, there’s an piece in the New York Times today about the fact that colleges now apply affirmative action in favor of men so that they can keep the populations relatively equal. I think men only make up 42% of B.A. being handed down and that number is dropping.

By the way, 1/3 of working wives make more money than their husbands and that number doesn’t seem to be declining either

What will that these trends do to your provider/nurturer division of labor?

Kendy

 

[TarAshly]

I can think of a few…

teachers
soldiers
firemen
policemen
priests
nuns
all clergy
social workers
etc…

Stay At Home Moms are no more special than working moms, its just another profession or career path that some women are privelidged enough financially to experiance, others have to work to survive.

Kendy:

I can think of many mothers (SAH or working) who exist none of these qualities. I can also think of many women, who have never given birth who do.

Kendy

 

[JMJ_Theresa]

TarAshly:

I didnt say they werent, I just meant that women are good for more than raising kids, I know my mom used every bit of herself to raise us, but she also held down a full time job. Obviously being a stay at home mom would be preferable all around. its better for the children, the husband and the wife, but there are some women who cant do it, who feel like they need to work and provide financially in their households and need the challenge of a career, that doesnt make them any better and it doesnt make them any worse, its not a wrong opinion just because its different. I want to be a mom but I also want to be a high school teacher, I can do both.

I agree. Do both. But, in their different seasons. I was a great high school teacher before I had children. I am not sure what if any occupation I will have after my kids are grown. I’m sure that God will make it plain.

However, I think teaching is more compatible with motherhood than many careers due to the schedule. However, keep in mind, you are not done working when the bell rings. I typically had an hour or two more prep work to do at home.

 

[JMJ_Theresa]

TarAshly:

I can think of a few…

teachers
soldiers
firemen
policemen
priests
nuns
all clergy
social workers
etc…

Stay At Home Moms are no more special than working moms, its just another profession or career path that some women are privelidged enough financially to experiance, others have to work to survive.

I disagree. Motherhood is a vocation, not a career path. It is not a choice. It is a calling.

 

[TarAshly]

:clapping: Great post!

brandy101:

I have been intrigued by some of the posts here. Impressed by many; not surprised (sadly) by a few.

I was raised by a SAHM who, along with my dad, sought to offer my sisters and I the best educational opportunities possible. Private Catholic school for 10 years, then a top-notch University for me, followed by a few years working, graduate school, and then more years in the workforce until, 3 years after I married, I had my daughter and chose to stay home with her. It was my CHOICE to stay home that I discerned based on a number of factors. I hold no animosity toward my peers who work with young children - in fact, many of my friends do so, not for glorification of their egos, but for overall family security (better health insurance, money to save for child’s education, etc.)

I feel having the opportunity to be educated and have experience in the workplace enables me to be able to SHARE my knowledge about God, Jesus, The Spirit, the scriptures, and provide example to her for the many directions her talents and interest can take her : education, careeer, volunteer/philanthropy, parenting, religious life, etc. How can she best glorify God here on earth if she cannot have the chance to discern and develop her talents?

Sadly, there is “work to be done” in terms of providing fair treatement in the workplace for women - and I know this firsthand.

Though savvy and self-assured, I was a "victim " (I hate to use that term) of gender/sexual harrassment in both a graduate school assignment and in the workplace. Luckily, in my grad school situation, I was aided by faculty and staff to make sure the the offending lout was approprately corrected, although the experience shook me to the core.

In the workplace situation, so as to not make waves, I just avoided the creeps (thankfully they weren’t superiors or direct co-workers.) Also, when I told my boyfriend (who is now my hubby of 9 years!) about the unwelcome advances I received from one persistent wierdo (who was, ironically, a so-called “Devout” Catholic), he “visited” me at the office and introduced himself to the Creep to scare him off. Not all women have a Prince Charming to help them out of such a situation. Thank God I did.

Back to the original discussion: Cosmo Girl - ok - well IMHO the “parent” mag, COSMO, is just a bunch of ink on dead trees so I doubt I’d ever present their “kids” version to my daughter - beyond the morality of it, its just kinda “low brow.”

 

[TarAshly]

Some would argue that being anyone of these professions is a vocation. I personally dont think SAHM are any more special than my hard working 9 to 5’er mom or anyother mom for that matter.
JMJ Theresa:

I disagree. Motherhood is a vocation, not a career path. It is not a choice. It is a calling.

 

[mikew262]

JSmitty2005:

Is there anyone on this thread that disagrees with the following statement?:

IF a woman is a wife and mother, then her primary duty should be that of a wife and mother.

No disagreement.

However, a woman having a career as well, doesn’t necessarily stamp out the other. It can, but it doesn’t have too, as has been proven a multitude of times by many working mothers.

 

[TarAshly]

no problem. I will do it at night, after my little ones are bathed, fed, homeworked and sleeping, just like my hard working mom did. if you want it bad enough its possible. and believe me, I was CALLED to be a teacher. I could easily get a MUCH higher paying career, teaching is my gift and my calling.
JMJ Theresa:

I agree. Do both. But, in their different seasons. I was a great high school teacher before I had children. I am not sure what if any occupation I will have after my kids are grown. I’m sure that God will make it plain.

However, I think teaching is more compatible with motherhood than many careers due to the schedule. However, keep in mind, you are not done working when the bell rings. I typically had an hour or two more prep work to do at home.

 

[mikew262]

JMJ Theresa:

hey!!! I vehemently disagree that rearing your children is not putting your brain and skills and talent to good use!!

I think you know what she mean’t.

 

[TarAshly]

Orionthehunter:

Nope. And if a man is a husband and father, then his primary duty should be that of a husband and father.

Does anyone disagree with that both statements are equally true?

If everyone believes they are both true, we should judge less the decisions of individual families on how they divide child-rearing obligations.

There was a poster who defended SAHM’s and that it was a Catholic point of view. I agree it is a view perfectly compatible w/ the Church’s expectation of a family. I also assume that the poster wasn’t implying that a family whose mother works outside the home is less compatible w/ the Church’s expectation of a family.

All some of are reacting to is the implication that choices made different than what is right for some are somehow inherently inferior, less Catholic, or less focused on the family.

JSmitty, this is a very broad statement for a young man w/ as little experience and perspective as yourself. You really should confine your generalizations to areas that your knowledge and expertise is more relevant and be less judgmental of those who have a different formula. While I’m the primary breadwinner in my family, my wife and I essentially divided the child-rearing obligations. Regarding the housework, if it was inside it was her responsiblity. If it was outside or garage, it was mine. Cooking was divided about 65-35 w/ her preparing the better meals only becuase she cared what we ate. A diet of hamburgers, pizza, and chili worked for me.

AGREED ORION! Thank you for clarifying. JSMITTY, until you actually ARE married and actually have to PROVIDE for a family and pay bills and put food on the table dont criticize what you dont know. Its very easy to sit back and dictate other peoples lives when you have yet to have a wife to provide for or children to feed and clothe.

 

[Kendy]

Well, I think we can all agree on this much. Whatever you do. It cannot be out of selfish ambition or greed. It must be a labor of love and service, and we must all try to seek God’s perfect will for our lives.

Kendy

 

[JMJ_Theresa]

TarAshly:

Some would argue that being anyone of these professions is a vocation. I personally dont think SAHM are any more special than my hard working 9 to 5’er mom or anyother mom for that matter.

I still disagree. Fatherhood and motherhood is a higher calling. How you make your living has to give way to either. To give yourself totally in time and attention is a higher call. Some families don’t have that option, granted.

I’m not saying that SAHM as individuals are more holy than working moms. I’m proof of that. I’ve got a long way to go. I am saying the vocation itself is more holy.

So, to be honest --and completely politically incorrect, I do think state of staying at home to care for your children is more compatible with Catholic Teaching.

And, that is my last post.

 

[TarAshly]

Ok and to counter that I could say that I think being a SAHM is a cop out of having to balance family and career. I have to go to class now because I didnt marry a millionaire and I have to contribute financially to my household and plan for my future childrens futures. yall have a nice day

and all you working moms better get to confession because you are NOT being holy moms!

obvioulsy this entire post is meant as satire. except that I do have to go to school, bye!
JMJ Theresa:

I still disagree. Fatherhood and motherhood is a higher calling. How you make your living has to give way to either. To give yourself totally in time and attention is a higher call. Some families don’t have that option, granted.

I’m not saying that SAHM as individuals are more holy than working moms. I’m proof of that. I’ve got a long way to go. I am saying the vocation itself is more holy.

So, to be honest --and completely politically incorrect, I do think state of staying at home to care for your children is more compatible with Catholic Teaching.

And, that is my last post.

 

[Kendy]

JMJ Theresa:

I still disagree. Fatherhood and motherhood is a higher calling. How you make your living has to give way to either. To give yourself totally in time and attention is a higher call. Some families don’t have that option, granted.

I’m not saying that SAHM as individuals are more holy than working moms. I’m proof of that. I’ve got a long way to go. I am saying the vocation itself is more holy.

So, to be honest --and completely politically incorrect, I do think state of staying at home to care for your children is more compatible with Catholic Teaching.

And, that is my last post.

Well, at least we are clear on our views. You insisted several times that you were not staying that SAHM are better than working moms. But that’s clearly not what you are saying.

I just want to add something that I said earlier. Working is about more than making a living. It’s about using your talents and passions to serve others.

Kendy

Kendy

 

[Orionthehunter]

JMJ Theresa:

I still disagree. Fatherhood and motherhood is a higher calling. How you make your living has to give way to either. To give yourself totally in time and attention is a higher call. Some families don’t have that option, granted.

I’m not saying that SAHM as individuals are more holy than working moms. I’m proof of that. I’ve got a long way to go. I am saying the vocation itself is more holy.

So, to be honest --and completely politically incorrect, I do think state of staying at home to care for your children is more compatible with Catholic Teaching.

And, that is my last post.

It is more than politically incorrect, it is theologically incorrect. Rather than repeat myself, I’ll just leave JMJ w/ a little Scripture. The point of the lesson is that what is right for one family may not be right for another.

I personally resent that JMJ is asserting that the decisions my wife and I made were less compatible with Catholic Teaching. Gratefully, only in the first few years of our marriage was her working a financial necessity. After that, it was a choice that allowed her to contribute her talents (she was an HR Director) that made the lives of her colleagues better and the environment of her employer most Christ-like. And during this time, we happen are quite pleased that the family life we provided our kids has prepared them well to be good Christians and fulfill their own destiny to do God’s work in His world.

Romans 14: 1-13

"Welcome anyone who is weak in faith, but not for disputes over opinions. One person believes that one may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. The one who eats must not despise the one who abstains, and the one who abstains must not pass judgment on the one who eats; for God has welcomed him.

Who are you to pass judgment on someone else’s servant? Before his own master he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

(For) one person considers one day more important than another, while another person considers all days alike. Let everyone be fully persuaded in his own mind. Whoever observes the day, observes it for the Lord. Also whoever eats, eats for the Lord, since he gives thanks to God; while whoever abstains, abstains for the Lord and gives thanks to God.

None of us lives for oneself, and no one dies for oneself. For if we live, we live for the Lord, and if we die, we die for the Lord; so then, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. For this is why Christ died and came to life, that he might be Lord of both the dead and the living.

Why then do you judge your brother? Or you, why do you look down on your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God;for it is written: “As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bend before me, and every tongue shall give praise to God.”

So (then) each of us shall give an account of himself (to God).
Then let us no longer judge one another, but rather resolve never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother."

 

[brandy101]

Believe me, as much I love my daughter and family, I KNOW that “motherhood” was not my “vocation” or “calling” or “discernment.” For some people it IS, and that is GREAT.

I wasn’t really happy about having a baby until I was actually pregnant - then my “Mama bear” instincts kicked in (thank God!) and I threw myself into learning how to be the best mom I could be. Sometimes I have to re-read my pregnancy journal to recall how “into” being a mom I was.

But making the adjustment from $ earner to staying home was really HARD - especially since my husband was pretty much jealous of me not being in the Rat Race anymore. But over time we’ve worked things out. The bottome line is its a private decision between a husband and wife how they manage their family.

Orion’s post reminds me alot of how our family chores/duties are divvied up, except in our case, hubby’s “cooking” would be takeout chinese or burritos instead of chili!