First Presidential Debate 9/26/16 Thread

[chero23]

Trust him to do what? Not insult people? All kinds of trustworthy people insult people, including right here on CAF. Harry Truman and Lyndon Johnson made Trump look like “Mr. Manners” by comparison.

The Middle East is ablaze. Russia is devouring Ukraine. China is building Islands with landing strips in the South China Sea. North Korea is developing missiles capable of hitting the U.S. and Iran is going nuclear while taking over Iraq and Syria, the economy is lackluster at best, and we’re to worry about manners as the basis for supporting candidates?

And you think Trump will solve all those problems?
The Middle East has been ablaze since Islam was born, especially once the state of Israel was formed.
Russia, likes to play chicken, their bark seems intimadating but if they haven’t gone full on war, i doubt they will start tomorrow.
China will not NK get to aggressive with their nukes, I believe China will stop Nk before things get out of control. Heck, I think Russia will even show some force if they see things getting out of hand.
How can the economy be lackluster. The stock market is high (Republicans back in 2006 said the economy was great and pointed at the stock market) you can not argue in favor of the stock market when we have a republican president, and then when a democrat president is in the WH talk the opposite.

 

[ProVobis]

Any company can file, just as any individual can. But that does not mean relief will be granted. Bankruptcy courts have the power to dismiss cases, and they do. They can also sanction false filings, recommend disbarment of lawyers who file them, and so on. It’s not at all uncommon for a company to file for relief under Chapter 11 if they miss an interest payment, because a missed interest payment can trigger a cascade of adverse creditor actions, and not just the creditor whose interest payment was missed. They can seize accounts, foreclose on assets, notify accounts to pay them instead of the company, shut down credit lines, demand immediate payment of other debts. One of the main functions of bankruptcy courts in Chapter 11 is to prevent the company from “freezing up” despite a good business and cash flow, and ceasing to function because of the actions of one or two creditors, and that’s very commonly the way it starts.

Quite possibly the main cause is when one creditor’s loan is short-term, but the usual treatment of the debt is long-term (i.e., gets “rolled over” routinely) and the creditor suddenly decides to liquidate the debt all at once. Sometimes, creditors who feel secure will even “roll over” interest that’s due, then suddenly decide they’re not secure and require immediate payment of the whole debt.

Companies don’t file Chapter 11 lightly, because, if nothing else, there is always the hazard of a creditors’ committee asking for, and receiving, management of the company. At best the court determines management compensation and requires periodic accountings. Some big and even medium size lenders have “workout teams” trained to take over management. Some will try to get control and turn management over to a company that wants to acquire the one that’s in trouble.

Overly-aggressive creditors are very often the cause of Chapter 11s, and creditors can even file them for a debtor themselves. None of it is a bed of roses. I spent part of my life as a Bankruptcy Examiner, and there are no secrets, nothing that cannot be critiqued, no limits on recommendations to the court to order sale of this, shutting down that. I have a friend who is a “Receiver” who gets hired by creditors’ committees to take over management of companies that file Chapter 11. “Examiners” and “Receivers” often act in concert, and it can be miserable for the debtor.

You don’t do it lightly.

All the same, one who is in financial difficulties usually gets a lower credit rating and ends up paying higher interest costs if he can get a loan (or IPO) at all. You would think after six bankruptcies, everyone would wise up and refuse to lend to him or invest in his future ventures, whatever they may be. Yet, he has half the population believing now things will different.

 

[chero23]

Are you equally as concerned with Hillary’s history of maligning the women who have been involved (putting it charitably) with her husband?

I have said it, both are not qualified to be president.
Yet, I have seen people here talk about HRC things before Bill became governor of Arkansas. If that’s the case, why don’t we hold Trump accountable to the same standard?

You don’t think, and be honest, that Trump did some “business deals” with politicians to help him succeed?
You don’t think while being in charge of the beauty pageant, he didn’t try to take advantage of the models, and then told them to hush about the situation?

If you say no to both, i really think your living in a fantasy world.

 

[Michael68]

Lester Holt was an embarrassment! He did not “fact check” Clinton and showed us again the media bias. I don’t care if he is a registered Republican, he showed us all what RINO means!!!

 

[Robert_Bay]

MODERATOR NOTICE

Before I start suspending people.
Charitably discuss the issues, not each other.

 

[tomarin]

Trust him to do what? Not insult people? All kinds of trustworthy people insult people, including right here on CAF. Harry Truman and Lyndon Johnson made Trump look like “Mr. Manners” by comparison.

The Middle East is ablaze. Russia is devouring Ukraine. China is building Islands with landing strips in the South China Sea. North Korea is developing missiles capable of hitting the U.S. and Iran is going nuclear while taking over Iraq and Syria, the economy is lackluster at best, and we’re to worry about manners as the basis for supporting candidates?

It isn’t just manners, Ridge. Trump has a long history of being cruel to people in both word and deed, sometimes even to members of his own family. I think that reflects his character, not his manners. He may not be able to empathize with other people’s suffering, like a sociopath. It would be really strange to put someone like that in charge of the most powerful nation on earth and not expect him to use those powers to inflict more pain and suffering on others.

 

[Maximilan_Kolbe]

Can you trust Trump?

Trump has been all over the place, one moment he says one thing, the next he’s pandering then he’s back in box 1.

True, the man is not a politician, but he’s running for POTUS, he needs to be assertive and with a cool demeanor. He doesn’t have that. That’s’a big deal.

HRC, can I say I trust her, No, I don’t but if I were to vote (I can vote but I’ve said that I won’t) and had to vote between the two, I would vote for HRC but it would be a hard pill to swallow.

I am unsure on Trump. I feel like personally, Hillary has a such a long history of lying (from trivial things like making up a story about sniper fire to serious things like Benghazi and her email server fiasco) that she is just a known quantity when it comes to not having integrity.

The missing ingredient is of course her love affair with abortion, gay marriage, and other socially liberal ideas. Even if we felt they both were equally untrustworthy, with Trump, and his proposed Supreme Court nominees, socially conservative Catholic values have a chance. Not a guarantee, but a chance.

With Hillary, who has said religious values need to change, we know we have no chance.

So given that, as a Catholic, you’d still vote for her?

 

[Ridgerunner]

And you think Trump will solve all those problems?
The Middle East has been ablaze since Islam was born, especially once the state of Israel was formed.
Russia, likes to play chicken, their bark seems intimadating but if they haven’t gone full on war, i doubt they will start tomorrow.
China will not NK get to aggressive with their nukes, I believe China will stop Nk before things get out of control. Heck, I think Russia will even show some force if they see things getting out of hand.
How can the economy be lackluster. The stock market is high (Republicans back in 2006 said the economy was great and pointed at the stock market) you can not argue in favor of the stock market when we have a republican president, and then when a democrat president is in the WH talk the opposite.

Nobody could possibly doubt the Middle East is a much bigger mess from our standpoint than it was in 2007.

Russia doesn’t have to “declare” war in Ukraine. They just do it.

There is no reason to think China or Russia, either one, will corral NoKo from harming the free nations. China could have stopped NoKo from building nukes the first place, but didn’t.

One should pay better attention to the stock market. It’s not a retail market. It’s a “carry trade” market. Watch what happens every time the Fed even acts like maybe it will increase interest rates. It takes a bath. And I didn’t argue in favor of the market during Repub presidencies. My only point is that a high stock market today is based almost totally on what amount to negative interest rates. That has happened before, too, but it’s not an indicator of financial health. There are very good indicators that the economy is not doing well, which is exactly why the Fed isn’t raising rates.

Can Trump solve those problems? Hard to know, because they’re so far gone, but at least, unlike Hillary Clinton, he had no part in creating them in the first place.

 

[Thorolfr]

I’ll admit Trump has not had the opportunity to sell his country’s interests for money or start a war, but neither is there any particular reason to think he would, and there is some reason to doubt it. As against Hillary Clinton’s dismal record, I would say that’s as much evidence as we’re likely to get before the election.

I do trust Trump not to try to make me “change my religion” as he has never said the slightest thing to indicate such an intent. Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, wants to do it. The only thing is was don’t know what she intends to do in order to make me change.

As between the two on “changing my religion” I trust Trump. I already know what Clinton wants to happen.

There is no evidence (as opposed to innuendo) that Clinton sold her country’s interests for money and she did not start a war all on her own. I know that a lot of people, including Mr. Trump, seem to think that everything was Clinton’s doing single handedly. But she was just Secretary of State, and many other actors were involved in the decisions that were made including the President, the National Security Adviser, our allies in Britain and France, etc.

She’s also not going to make people change their religion. How would she do this even if she wanted to (which I don’t think she does)? It’s not going to happen.

 

[sallybutler]

Are you equally as concerned with Hillary’s history of maligning the women who have been involved (putting it charitably) with her husband?

Not really. Most people, especially people who are trying to keep their marriage together, malign the other person, not their spouse. They also do this with their children, blaming the friends and associates of their children, not their child. We often call it the Mama Bear syndrome.

 

[ProVobis]

The Middle East is ablaze. Russia is devouring Ukraine. China is building Islands with landing strips in the South China Sea. North Korea is developing missiles capable of hitting the U.S. and Iran is going nuclear while taking over Iraq and Syria, the economy is lackluster at best, and we’re to worry about manners as the basis for supporting candidates?

In fairness, was there ever a period in history when there was no turmoil of any kind?

The US currency is still strong, in fact it is the default currency of the world, the military is second to none, foreigners are heavily investing in the U.S., Americans are tops in charity giving, the stock market has been almost free from recent heavy volatility, etc. Is it perfect, no, but it seems like our system of checks and balances, among other things, still works.

All in my opinion, of course.

 

[Maximilan_Kolbe]

And if someone places a high value on trust, they should vote for Trump? Is there any evidence that he is more trustworthy than Clinton?

Read again. That was the exact opposite of the post you quoted.

One would assume if trust is your biggest hang-up, you would not be voting for either. You can separate the candidates by policy, beliefs, and others things.

But you can’t say that “I don’t trust Trump” at the same time saying “I’m voting for Hillary.”

Most people who have issues trusting the candidates are looking elsewhere, ala Castle or Stein.

The ones who claim to have issues with trust but are voting for either Trump or Clinton probably don’t really have any issues, they are just for excuses on a public message board for their vote.

 

[Vouthon]

Trust him to do what? Not insult people? All kinds of trustworthy people insult people, including right here on CAF. Harry Truman and Lyndon Johnson made Trump look like “Mr. Manners” by comparison.

The Middle East is ablaze. Russia is devouring Ukraine. China is building Islands with landing strips in the South China Sea. North Korea is developing missiles capable of hitting the U.S. and Iran is going nuclear while taking over Iraq and Syria, the economy is lackluster at best, and we’re to worry about manners as the basis for supporting candidates?

Much of what you say above is true or has some merit. (LBJ invited reporters into his private chambers when he was nearly in the buff, if my memory recalls).

The only problem is that you exhibit a far superior grasp of world affairs and international politics than Mr Trump. And yet Trump is standing on that podium as the GOP nominee for President.

Judging Mr Trump by his words (at least those I can make out amidst the near constant obfuscating unintelligibleness and ranting), one would be compelled to regard him as ludicrously ignorant about anything going on beyond the east and west coasts of the U.S. (I am sure some of your countryman would include the United States in that category too). Consider, to bring up an example closer to home for me, when he landed in Scotland on the day after the EU referendum and tweeted that we were all going wild with joy about Brexit and allegedly “taking our country back”. Obviously, he hadn’t bothered to do his homework and this characteristic tardiness with regards to preparation clearly let him down in that debate with the assiduous Clinton.

And yes, I’ve insulted him again. I find it almost impossible not too

 

[DeniseNY]

Not really. Most people, especially people who are trying to keep their marriage together, malign the other person, not their spouse. They also do this with their children, blaming the friends and associates of their children, not their child. We often call it the Mama Bear syndrome.

Most people though don’t build a public career on being a proponent and protector of women, such as the ill-advised (now deleted) line on her website that “all women deserve to be believed”. We often call that being a hypocrite.

 

[Maximilan_Kolbe]

Not really. Most people, especially people who are trying to keep their marriage together, malign the other person, not their spouse. They also do this with their children, blaming the friends and associates of their children, not their child. We often call it the Mama Bear syndrome.

Some people call it “jilted wife with no integrity attacks the victim” syndrome.

Or simply blaming the victim.

 

[Vouthon]

In fairness, was there ever a period in history when there was no turmoil of any kind?

The US currency is still strong, in fact it is the default currency of the world, the military is second to none, foreigners are heavily investing in the U.S., Americans are tops in charity giving, the stock market has been almost free from recent heavy volatility, etc. Is it perfect, no, but it seems like our system of checks and balances, among other things, still works.

All in my opinion, of course.

Good points. Are you perhaps suggesting that America is already “great” and doesn’t need a superman to make it “great again”?

 

[TMC]

If Trump brings up Bill’s infedilities, HRC will have a cake walk with Trump, bc it is known that Trump cheated on one of his ex-wives.

If I were Trump, I would drop that issue.

Trump cheated on all of his ex-wives and not only admitted that, he has repeatedly bragged about it. He also brags about sleeping with married women. I can’t believe he would want to bring up infidelity.

 

[ProVobis]

How can the economy be lackluster. The stock market is high (Republicans back in 2006 said the economy was great and pointed at the stock market) you can not argue in favor of the stock market when we have a republican president, and then when a democrat president is in the WH talk the opposite.

Good point.

 

[Michael68]

Howard Dean owes Trump an apology for suggesting he was on cocaine during the debate! Truly Pathetic!!!

 

[Maximilan_Kolbe]

Most people though don’t build a public career on being a proponent and protector of women, such as the ill-advised (now deleted) line on her website that “all women deserve to be believed”. We often call that being a hypocrite.

Seriously, a champion of women, save for those street-walkers Lewinsky, Jones, Broderick, and Flowers. Those women don’t count.

Hillary is and has always been a liar and fraud, and this yet another example.