For better or worse, rapidly developed Covid vaccines are on the way. If your bishop were to shortly decree that due to public health concerns....."

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Even after a vaccine enters public use, it’ll probably be months yet before it becomes readily available for everyone, so there will be more time to observe later effects on a larger scale.

But as long as the vaccine has cleared actual FDA hurdles and is recommended by the CDC, I’ve no objections to getting vaccinated.
 
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MNathaniel said:
Apologies for the impatient tone if you were genuinely throwing that definitional reminder in there as a point of interest instead of a ‘gotcha’ along the lines of pointing out that a tomato is actually a fruit and a spider isn’t an insect
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The problem is people often say “ew I don’t want chemicals in my body” in order to conjure an image of some neon green glowing death juice when A) they can’t actually explain what their concern is, just that it’s “chemicals” and therefore unnatural and harmful and B) that organic carrot they just ate is full of a million chemical components.
 
whatistrue said:
There are unfortunately too many people who… have somehow gotten the odd idea that vaccines are inherently bad and I have no way of knowing whether you or any other random unknown individual is one of them. Or at least until it is made clear in their own words.
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cough

Like perhaps upthread when I clearly said, in my own words…?
MNathaniel said:
I’m not an anti-vaxxer by the way. I’m fully vaccinated from all the normal things, woohoo western medicine and all that.
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I’ll also note that almost everyone I know is a political leftist (and I’m struggling to think of any current associates who don’t have university degrees…) and so far every single otherwise-progressive, let’s-all-band-together-and-beat-this-thing person I know, has unanimously (and emphatically) agreed they have no intention whatsoever of lining up for an early vaccine.
 
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MNathaniel said:
Like perhaps upthread when I clearly said, in my own words…?
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And nor did I say that you were one, as the text you so conveniently redacted from the quote might have served to illustrate. My comment was general, not directed to you only, although I probably could have made that clearer with more editing time.

Aside from the fact that I don’t generally go through an entire thread looking for everything a poster wrote on it when replying to one particular post.
 
:roll_eyes:

Well, I think this thread has fallen into fairly predictable camps of one group commenting that they have concerns, and another group commenting that only uneducated anti-vaxxers who don’t know what chemicals are would have concerns, so I’m just going to leave.
 
I would simply get the vaccine.

However, I have no fear of needles. I know there are risks for the first who get this, as side effects are studied on the fly. For me, that would be motivation to get it early. Someone has to. Some people have to. No greater love, and all that.
 
MNathaniel said:
and so far every single otherwise-progressive, let’s-all-band-together-and-beat-this-thing person I know, has unanimously (and emphatically ) agreed they have no intention whatsoever of lining up for an early vaccine.
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I can definitely get behind this idea. Vaccines normally do, and should, take much longer to develop and be properly tested.

ETA: Although I may become an early adopter anyway. Not sure yet.
 
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Zaccheus said:
If the medical profession offers me a vaccine for Covid-19 I will take it. I’m not going to demand that they first spend years proving it works. The need is now.
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How did that work out in the case of the thalidomide babies.

Their mothers also had an immediate need.
 
Very different situation, with very different testing regimens applied, largely as a result of Thalidomide.

This vaccine hasn’t really been rushed through either, governments worldwide have been focused and spending money on finding a vaccine. No waiting around for the next stage of funding has helped to speed up response, as does the fact that some preliminary research was done in response to SARS back in 2003. Couple that all together with fact that we can map the virus genome far more quickly today, means we can get vaccine RTM much earlier than is typical.
 
Look, I don’t want to see a tragedy unfold.

And I understand that some people are willing to take the new vaccine, either for their own protection or to further medical science, etc, which is good because at the very least, we’ll all benefit from the new information we glean.

And maybe the vaccine will do exactly what it should with minimal long term effects.

But those of us who have grave concerns (and I worked in the pharmaceutical industry back in the day) about the rush to market, or who simply can’t take the chance of disasterous health effects should be able to mask up instead of being pressured to take the shot.
 
Inquisitor85 said:
Very different situation, with very different testing regimens applied, largely as a result of Thalidomide.
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Also, that was a drug, not a vaccine. While both can have adverse side effects, I am thinking that on a rushed vaccine they will stick mostly with known chemical binders and additives.
 
Yes, I probably would. I generally try to follow rules.
This doesn’t add much to the debate, I’m afraid.
 
0Scarlett_nidiyilii said:
But those of us who have grave concerns (and I worked in the pharmaceutical industry back in the day) about the rush to market, or who simply can’t take the chance of disasterous health effects should be able to mask up instead of being pressured to take the shot.
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With over 1000 people a day dying from covid-19 how much safety data do you want to wait for?
 
Whatevervis commensurate with other vaccines.

I’m speaking for myself—if others want to take it, then have at it.

I won’t take it until it’s beem out for at least five years.

That should be enough time for the major problems to be detected and fixed.

I am willing to mask up if others are nervous.
 
You are aware over 7k people die every day in normal years right?
 
The more immediate the need the more hasty the remedy, and the less likely it will be totally tested and safe.
 
A Bishop has already spoken out against potential vaccines. https://dioceseoffresno.org/ “the use of fetal stem cell material at any stage a vaccine’s development means it would be off limits to Catholics” The three current potential vaccines Moderns, Pfizer (used in testing), and AstraZenica-Oxford all use HEK 293 (Human Embryonic Kidney Cells) so they are unethical. https://cogforlife.org/ see Covid-19 document.
 
Dave27360 said:
“the use of fetal stem cell material at any stage a vaccine’s development means it would be off limits to Catholics”
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I think this isn’t quite accurate. I believe Church teaching to be that, whilst the development of these vaccines is of course immoral, if the only vaccine available is made in this way, a Catholic can in good conscience take it in order to protect one’s health. Especially for the sick and vulnerable. That being said, I still would not take such a vaccine, even if there was no other option. My conscience would not permit it.
And of course vaccine companies should be asked and incentivised to create vaccines ethically.
 
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How long do people think it takes to develop tge average flu vaccine? New strains of flu come every season, so presumbly less than a year.

How long has COVID been around? A year, certainly . How long do you think peole.hve been working on these vaccines? Certainly since March, so 8 or 9 months

If Cvid is ‘just a flu’ (albeit an unusually severe nd infectious one) then these are in essence “just” flu vaccines. It is no-ones first rodeo in terms of development, production or testing. There would appear to be mo more risk than your average seasonal jab.
 
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