For better or worse, rapidly developed Covid vaccines are on the way. If your bishop were to shortly decree that due to public health concerns....."

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This is our current situation today. Non-essential items are not for sale. Get your food and get out. Isles are blocked off, items covered in plastic.

Stores operating at 25% capacity.
There is a person counting people in, people out. At a busy time there’s a long line outside in a cold Canadian winter to wait your turn.
Only 1 person per household allowed in.
Mask required. They are policing that at the door.

I honestly think we are close to the point of showing your ID card with vaccination to get entry. That’s a small requirement compared to what has been implemented in under a year.

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I believe that’s the Christmas stock put out of reach…
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One of the things confusing about vaccines is when one Diocese says a vaccine is unethical and another Diocese says it is ethical. The USCCB or the Holy See needs to make a Universal Statement with clarification.
 
Dave27360 said:
One of the things confusing about vaccines is when one Diocese says a vaccine is unethical and another Diocese says it is ethical. The USCCB or the Holy See needs to make a Universal Statement with clarification.
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The Church has made it’s position clear. Do not get any vaccine derived from fetal stem cells unless there is no alternative. How is that not clear?
 
Bishops in a number of states have decreed that all children must be vaccinated to attend Catholic schools. There are very limited medical exemptions, but that’s it. It’s not the same as blocking access to the Sacraments, but still a medical mandate to receive a Catholic education.

I don’t see this thread’s hypothetical scenario playing out anyway. The COVID vaccine will be difficult to mandate because even vaccinated individuals will likely have to wear masked and distance themselves.
Zaccheus said:
But aren’t all medicines ‘chemicals’?
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I think the issue is less about “chemicals” than about taking them under duress. There’s certainly a time and place for medication, but voluntary, informed consent is the issue.
 
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Zaccheus said:
If the medical profession offers me a vaccine for Covid-19 I will take it. I’m not going to demand that they first spend years proving it works. The need is now.
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My thoughts exactly. When the vaccine comes out, I am going to take it, and I am going to have my son (age 13) to take it. He is agreeable to this. We need to get our lives back to normal. Vacation trips are part of our homeschool learning plan, and we did not get to take one this year — I had to cobble together a series of short road trips (home and back in a day) to various nearby sites of interest, such as state parks, historical sites, and so on, and that was no vacation.

As far as vaccines being derived from the cells of unborn conceived entities (this covers everything from embryos to fetuses, hence my use of a more generic term), my question then would be, were the UCEs brought into being expressly to “harvest” them for these cells — as takes place with stem cell therapy — or were cells merely recovered from UCEs who would have been aborted anyway, regardless of whether their cells were usable or not?

In the latter case — and this ventures into a macabre (or worse) train of thought I find extremely disagreeable, but I must “go there” anyway, to make the point — to my mind, it is more like a life-saving cure being derived from the body of a murder victim, who was not killed so that this cure could be derived, but for some other reason. In other words, what’s done is done, and some good can come from his having been murdered by someone else, not unlike organ transplantation from a murder victim (assuming such a thing were possible).

I would much prefer to receive a vaccine not developed in this way, but in the real world, I have to wonder if, in individual cases, the recipient will have much of a choice in the matter. There will be different schools of thought on this, and ultimately, I would welcome a clear statement from Rome, to settle the matter for Catholics (and anyone else who cares to heed what the Church says) throughout the world.
 
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I can’t fathom bishops mandating a vaccine in order to attend Mass. If this dystopian fantasy were to unfold, as long as the dispensation remains in effect, I suppose I would decline until the vaccine has had some proving ground. But it wouldn’t be a heroic sacrifice because while I’m very thankful to have the Mass, I also don’t mind missing.
 
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How is it fatalistic?

I was talking about whether an individual commits mortal sin if they can’t get to Mass, and if a bishop commits mortal sin by denying people the sacraments.

“Fatalistic” is more like: imma bunjie jump off this bridge under the supervision of an unlicensed amusements operator and let God decide if I live or die.
 
Zaccheus said:
Do you think any Covid vaccine is going to be like thalidomide?
Do you think this of all new vaccines or just the covid vaccine?
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I worked for a pharmaceutical company back in the day.
They had a vaccine in development at the time (which has been since released) that people were looking forward to.
The FDA held up approval of this vaccine for years over the wording of one sentence in the package insert.
One sentence.

So yeah, this rush to market is making me very nervous.

Like I said, maybe it will be totally safe.

But I’ve been around long enough to know that tragedies can and do happen.

I’m willing to mask up, instead.
 
In the US there has not been a national coronavirus strategy. The federal government leaves this to the state or local governments. This means that rules vary from state to state and sometimes from city to city. In addition vaccine requirements are set by the states not the federal government.

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/diseases/2019-novel-coronavirus-infection.html

The count of total cases of COVID-19 in Canada was 337,555 as of November 23, 2020.


TOTAL CASES
12,175,921
Updated: Nov 23 2020 12:17PM
 
Yep, and that’s a lot, and I’m not questioning the figures although some would. All I’m saying is that the virus has mutated and there is evidence that it is weakening.
 
Sorry. I must have misunderstood you. Lately I just see a lot of this attitude with lots of people saying “ oh if I get covid it’s gods will if I die”
 
IanM said:
If your bishop were to shortly decree
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Why so many threads that cause suspicion specifically of bishops (and no one else?)

What if the bishop demands the torture of the family pet? How ya gonna respond?

“Heh, S’pose that bishop requires you to …(insert atrocity here)”. That may be the next thread.

How will you show your defiance?

In my state the governor is now tightening restrictions on church services. So there’s a “Laity” protest rally planned…
Not in front of the State office building, but in front of the diocese offices.

I see a trend here.
 
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commenter said:
Why so many threads that cause suspicion specifically of bishops (and no one else?)
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I do not know about no one else, but I know a few people that believe that the Bishops have been complicit in denying the sacraments.
This was felt most acutely in churches that were large enough to comply easily to social distance guidelines, but were still shut down.
So yes, I expect those people to be suspicious.

As to the vaccine…I suspect I can gauge the faith people have had in their arguments about how bad covid is based upon their willingness to go all out in an emergency.
 
vz71 said:
but I know a few people that believe that the Bishops have been complicit …
So yes, I expect those people to be suspicious.
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Western secular culture is pro individual spirituality but hostile to any kind of religious hierarchy or obedience.

There’s a whole mentality that presents children on tv as smarter than their parents, dad is depicted as abusive or stupid. Clergy are usually presented as negative, unless they are rebels, defying higher authority.

This partly explains why people feel a certain way why laity are protesting outside the bishops office and not the abortion clinic or pro abortion politicians office or anti Catholic tv station
 
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It is clear, yes that is the churches teaching vaccines that use fetal tissue are unethical. However, the article earlier from the Archdiocese of Philadelphia says that Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are ethical.
 
From what I’ve read on how vaccination will proceed…

It will probably be a two stage process. Initial vaccination then a booster a month later.

Medical personnel will get it first
Next will be high risk and immune suppressed that qualify
Everyone else.

The time frame will depend on the ability to manufacture doses.

What I haven’t heard is how long immunity is expected to last…one year? Multiple years? Lifetime?

As soon as I qualify and it’s available, I will get it. You’re welcome! 😂😂😂
 
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