Former/Non Catholics: What do you practice now?

[Philthy]

BlessedBe13:

Heathen_Dawn’s post reflected my thoughts pretty well, so no need to restate what’s been said.

Mr. S., as for your comment, I do have to say that is one of the things that turned me off from Catholicism/Christianity. Threatening people with Satan/Hell to get them to behave a certain way and to join/stick with a particular religion, doesn’t seem to be good practice. People should behave certain ways/participate in religion, etc. based on beliefs, values, morals, etc. - not fear. Although I don’t particularly dislike Catholicism/Christianity, I don’t have a lot of respect for scare tactics.

You do realize, of course, that if Hell is a reality then using whatever means are available to motivate people to behave in a manner which will decrease the likelihood of them going to hell is a good idea. What’s really going on is that you just don’t want it to be that way - that hell exists. You don’t “feel” you deserve it - reality be damned… “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.” Proverbs 1:7 You girls overestimate yourselves, your opinions and your inherent goodness severely. I’m not claiming to be better, but I have learned to be humble and remorseful.

As it was said, people are accountable for their own actions and need to deal with the consequences (in life) of their actions.

Some do, some don’t. Read a little history.

The threat of going to “hell” won’t always “help” behavior either. Some people may figure, “well, I’m going to hell for doing a. Might as well do x, y, and z too.” Won’t be very beneficial for themselves or those around them.

Wow. This is deep. Did you ever stop to think - and I mean for more time than it takes to blow a bubble - that these same people would be doing x,y and z anyhow because they are evil? You have established no logical link between the threat of hell and these people being motivated by that threat to consider some other evil act. I don’t mean to be condescending, but do you really feel that philosophy/theology is your forte? Are you really comfortable relying on your own intelligence?

Phil

 

[MrS]

Nice try Phil, but these are two misguided souls. I would say lost souls, but they still are alive, still have a free will, and still make their own choice to accept God and heaven, or reject God and go to hell. That is not a threat, just what God has taught us.

Pray for them… and let them go back to their atheist boards.

 

[MariaG]

I’m interested in hearing what religions (if any) former Catholics took up after they left the Church, or what is practiced by the majority of non-Catholics with intention of converting. I was raised Methodist but have lately began seriously questioning it. After much investigation, I’ve decided not to become Catholic. However, there are so many other Christian and non-Christian faiths that I don’t know where to go from here!

Hi Mindy,
I will give you a run down on the different Christian denominations, but I have a question also. What in Catholic teachings made you decide against it?

Catholic- the one true Church of Christ. Believes that you can lose your salvation. Believes in heaven, hell and purgatory, all Biblical. Baptism is a miracle from God that washes away original sin that we are born with. I am Catholic now can you tell?

Baptist- These vary from church to church, but are supposed to believe that once saved, you are always saved. I think the word is predestination? Do not believe that Baptism is a miracle, but a public declartion repenting of sins. Believe in heaven and hell.

Lutheran - I have heard a Lutheran call herself a Catholic lite! Very similar in beliefs. Differences are in the details.

Assembly of God - Believe you can lose your salvation. Baptism is a public declaration. Have visible gifts of the Spirit present at every service. Tongues are a big thing for these churches.

Nazarene - Believe you can lose your salvation. Baptism is public declaration. Believe Sanctification is an instantaneous thing, not a process. One I went to, pastor thought tongues were from Satan.

These are the few I know a little about. But I guess the thing you need to ask yourself is do you still wish to be Christian. But do not base your answer on and blame God for the actions of those who claim to be Christians, because no matter what we say we are, God still gives us the free choice to sin. God loves us enough to allow us to walk away from Him.

God Bless you on your journey and may He bring you home safely.

Maria

 

[spurgeon]

Mindy Mae:

Thanks." I like attending services and such, which is why I’m trying to find a new place to go. "
You seem to be doing a haphazard search for something more “exciting” to join. You might finsih up joining some of these none-denominationals catch-all religions I see on the cable tv.The pastors are moslems (or former moslems) failed dentists, former prisoners,and anything but trained priests.
They have their minds firmly focused on money and invite the naive to hand over their cash in “planting a seed” with promises of “financial increase” In the catholic church at least the priests are trained and spiritually minded.

 

[Heathen_Dawn]

MrS:

Nice try Phil, but these are two misguided souls.

Unsupported assertion.

I would say lost souls, but they still are alive, still have a free will, and still make their own choice to accept God and heaven, or reject God and go to hell.

This isn’t a choice.

That is not a threat, just what God has taught us.

It’s a threat any way you slice it. In my mind, Christianity could have been one of the greatest religions in the world, if only it didn’t have hell. Pity.

Pray for them… and let them go back to their atheist boards.

We’re not atheists, BlessedBe13 and me.

 

[Mijoy2]

Heathen, BlessedBe13, Has this Wiccan God revealed himself in any way. Catholics/Christians believe, as you know that God has revealed Himself here on earth and the evidence of this public revelation is the Bible; Holy Scripture. Now I am fully aware you do not believe this book that has been around for 2000 years with books that preceed that by thousands more.

But that is not my question. My qustion is, has the Wiccan God revealed himself? Of what evidence do you know He/She exists?
I’m simply curious. Without the Bible, without my belief that scripture is divinely inspired, I’d be without Faith. I truat that God does not wish us to have blind-faith.

Of what do you consider your evidence? Thank you,

 

[Heathen_Dawn]

Mijoy2:

My qustion is, has the Wiccan God revealed himself?

The Goddess and the God have personally revealed Themselves to me, and other Wiccans could tell you the same thing.

Without the Bible, without my belief that scripture is divinely inspired, I’d be without Faith.

Don’t you think it’s better to know God in person rather than just on paper?

Of what do you consider your evidence? Thank you,

My experiences, my personal relationship with Them.

 

[SP38]

HD, you seem to be going around and around with your explainations. Really, not answering anything. Wiccan is only 50 years old? Who came up with it? What ‘book’ do you follow?
The idea of gods of this and that is old, that is why when God gave Moses the 10 commandments he said #1- No other gods before me.
The egyptians had multiple gods, and so did the other people of those days.
Also, you made a comment about you get what you deserve while living… so you mess up, and the gods make it rain??
What kind of personal reveal can you make of that? Oh, well, I messed up , so it will rain on my parade… because I deserve it?
Bad rain god.

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

BlessedBe13:

I was born and raised Catholic, but there were several things I just didn’t agree with. Currently I am studying Wicca, as the beliefs seem to fit more closely with my own.

With all due respect to my Protestant brothers and sisters, herein lies the problem with Protestantism. One searches for the church that most closely fits one’s own beliefs rather than conforming one’s own beliefs to the truth of the Church. If one does not find such a church one simply starts a new one. This process makes the individual believer the standard for truth with churches being subject to them rather than the church being the standard for the truth (1 Tim 3:15) with believers being subject to it.

In reality, truth is not relative to the believer but rather absolute and unchanging regardless of the personal beliefs of the individual.

In Christ,
Nancy

 

[Mijoy2]

Heathen Dawn:

The Goddess and the God have personally revealed Themselves to me, and other Wiccans could tell you the same thing.

.

This is facinating. If it is not too impolite I’d like to know how so. if you have had a legitimate relevelation then you are light years ahead of me towards truth.

If you have not, then that is where the evidence of the Bible is truly all we have to hang our hat on.

I’m not holding out for a revelation. Therefore I have two choices, believe in what has been already been revealed (old testament followed by the new covenant) or nothing at all.

Think long and hard about your revelation Heathen.

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

Hi Heathen Dawn!

There is only one Truth

Heathen Dawn:

Agreed. Christianity isn’t it (the Christian God is real, but Christian truth-claims such as monotheism and hell are false).

How can you be sure?

There is no hell.

How can you be sure?

When I ask this I mean really, objectively sure and not “I just know” sure?

In Christ,
Nancy

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

Heathen Dawn:

Love and the threat of hell are mutually exclusive. How many times am I going to have to say that?

Hi Heathen Dawn!

Hell isn’t a threat, it’s the natural consequence of rejecting God.

We are to choose, in this life, whether we want God or whether we don’t. If we don’t want him we don’t have to have him. If we choose to live without him in this life we will live without him in the next. That’s hell; eternal separation from God and the knowledge that being there was our own choice.

So really love and hell are not at all mutually exclusive. God loves us so much that he won’t force himself on us. Ultimatley he will give each one of us exactly what we want. If it’s not him we don’t have to have him. Not having him, for all eternity, is hell.

In Christ,
Nancy

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

Heathen Dawn:

It may hurt the Christian God, perhaps (and even then, He does accept Jews without Jesus);

Hi Heathen Dawn!

Any Jews who will be saved with be saved by the saving work of Christ. There is no salvation without Jesus Christ. Those who don’t know Christ through no fault of their own can still be saved (we don’t know what Jesus does at the fraction of a moment before death) but they are still saved by Jesus, even if they didn’t know him. There is no salvation without Jesus.

Are you flat out rejecting Christ with full knowledge of the gospel?

In Christ,
Nancy

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

SPOKENWORD:

On one hand you say that there are non catholics in heaven,and that they only can be saved through the Catholic church. Well if they are saved through the Catholic Church they are no longer non-catholic but Catholic.Do I make sense?

Hi Spokenword!

I see what you’re saying, but you and Jay are speaking of two different things.

Jay is speaking of grace coming to us through the Body of Christ regardless of membership. All who are saved, regardless of church affiliation, receive saving grace through Christ’s body, the Church. You seem to be speaking exclusively of “official” membership in the Church.

One does not need to be a member of the Church to receive grace through the Church. Christ is the only source of grace. Since the Church is the body of Christ all grace flows from Christ through his body the Church. Christ cannot be separated from his body. Grace does not flow through a severed head.

While some are more perfectly united to the Body than others, ALL who are saved receive grace from the same Body of Christ, the Church.

In Christ,
Nancy

 

[Madaglan]

I think a lot needs to be said about the gospel narratives as historically accurate accounts of Jesus. The gospel narratives have been accepted by many scholars (Jesus Seminar notwithstanding) as historically accurate. Many of the scholars who mention this are renowned in their field of Bible studies.

Why I bring up the historical accuracy of the gospel narratives is because, if we know that the gospel accounts are reliable, we know that people truly witnessed what they thought were miracles performed by Jesus. Now, some may say that Jesus did not perform miracles, but only tricked people, like a magician. However, certain miracles–such as healing lepers, cripples, mentally insane people, the transfiguration, etc.–are clearly real miracles that defy the laws of nature and which nobody without supernatural authority could perform. This leads us to question why Jesus would perform these miracles, where he got the authority to perform these miracles, and why Jesus made the claims he did.

Presently I’m looking at the gospel accounts simply as valid historical documents. If I were non-Christian and knew that the New Testament gospels were historically accurate and that events listed within were clearly miraculous, I would begin to look more closely at the connection between the miracles of Jesus and His radical claims. It is not very logical, when one has strong reason to believe the New Testament documents as validly historical accounts, to disregard the teachings and claims of Jesus–especially those claims He makes concerning Himself as the only way.

Since it appears that much of Wicca is based on private revelation, it is difficult disprove, since any argument I would make would be deemed as inferior logic when compared to the superiority of personal enlightenment. However, what I can do is demonstrate that Jesus was an historically real person, that He performed miracles (that is, He defied laws of nature which, as an human, he could not have done without supernatural means), and that He made claims of being equal with God. Once this is shown, one must at least recognize that Jesus did and said things which instilled people with so much faith and love for God that they would give away all their possessions, leave their family, accept all hardship, and spread the gospel.

I hope that helps generate some thought

 

[Madaglan]

I was just thinking: what would J.R.R. Tolkien say if he were on this forum. He was extremely knowledgeable of pagan religions, especially those of Europe; and yet he was a devout Catholic. :bounce:

 

[Mindy_Mae]

Wow! I post my little question and then go away for the weekend…when I come back, I’ve got a hot topic (red envelope even).

I appreciate all the (name removed by moderator)ut from the Catholic folks, but I specifically aimed this question at non-and-no longer-Catholics and posted in the Non-Catholic Religion forum.

I’ve spent hours on the phone to Catholic Answers apologists (and it’s long distance!!), taken Catholic-based theology classes at my college, talked to the campus priests and consecrated people, gone through two different RCIA programs, and it is very clear that I will never be Catholic.

Truth is relative. What it really boils down to is faith…what do you believe to be true. I don’t see a point in following a faith that makes you feel miserable and “icky” all the time.

Mindy

 

[SPOKENWORD]

Mindy Mae:

Wow! I post my little question and then go away for the weekend…when I come back, I’ve got a hot topic (red envelope even).

I appreciate all the (name removed by moderator)ut from the Catholic folks, but I specifically aimed this question at non-and-no longer-Catholics and posted in the Non-Catholic Religion forum.

I’ve spent hours on the phone to Catholic Answers apologists (and it’s long distance!!), taken Catholic-based theology classes at my college, talked to the campus priests and consecrated people, gone through two different RCIA programs, and it is very clear that I will never be Catholic.

Truth is relative. What it really boils down to is faith…what do you believe to be true. I don’t see a point in following a faith that makes you feel miserable and “icky” all the time.

Mindy

Yes ,It does boil down to Faith but also Hope, and Love, Love being the Greatest. I also encourage you be careful with your feelings but rely on what the the Holy Spirit is saying to you. I encourage you continue in your search for where God wants you to be, and of course always keeping your focus on Jesus and Prayer. God Bless You and Keep you.

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

Mindy Mae:

Truth is relative. What it really boils down to is faith…what do you believe to be true. I don’t see a point in following a faith that makes you feel miserable and “icky” all the time.

Hi Mindy Mae!

I respectfully disagree. Truth is absolute, not relative. Truth is what makes us free. Jesus wouldn’t make the condition for freedom something that is relative. It must be absolute, unchanging and knowable or there’s no way we can be free. Jesus is truth. Jesus isn’t relative, he’s absolute and unchanging.

Is it Catholicism that makes you feel icky? If so why? I’m curious why you’re basing your faith on feelings when feelings are relative, changing and can be misleading. Faith must be based on truth, not feelings.

There are a few posts in this thread by Wiccans. They “feel” that paganism is true and that Christianity is not. Of course, their feeling that way doesn’t make paganism true and Christianity untrue. That’s because Christianity is objectively true, even for those who don’t feel that it is. Jesus isn’t true for those who feel he’s true and a myth for those who don’t. Jesus is true for everyone regardless of feelings. That’s how it is with all truth. Truth is…well…true, no matter the feelings that individuals have about it.

In Christ,
Nancy

 

[BlessedBe13]

SP38:

Who do you believe created us,

a god and goddess

and what proof do you have of that?

I’m here aren’t I? That, and faith.

Just one god and goddess?

Yup.

Created in their image?

Someone I spoke to on another board said that God is supposed to be able to reason and be logical. Humans are supposed to be able to reason and be logical. He said that is what is meant by “created in his image”. I had never thought of it that way and I thought it was an interesting explanation.

What’s your take on angels?

I’d say I believe in them, but I’m still working on in what context I do.