Former spiritual advisor to Medjugorje "seers" - Tomislav Vlasic - laicized by the Holy See

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fulbert4605 said:
The local bishop has the authority to discern revelations in his diocese. His ruling is final - end of story. That’s the pre-requisite to being able to put your faith into the apparitions.

God, in His Infinite Wisdom, no doubt created that pre-requisite and takes this into consideration when choosing to reveal something to the world. God will choose the apparitions to occur in a diocese where the bishop is likely to approve of them. If the bishop makes a mistake and does not approve of them, surely God would waste no time in starting up the apparitions in another diocese where that bishop would approve of them since His message must permeate.

The real nail in the coffin is when the local bishop does not approve of the apparitions and yet the apparitions and the seers defy the bishop’s authority by still spreading the messages. Then you really know the apparitions were false and the bishop was right in not approving them since if the apparitions were real, it and the seer would be obedient to the Church.

The nail in the coffin of Medjugorje was pounded in 19 years ago and has not rusted one bit nor will it ever rust.
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Well said. 👍

Best website: unitypublishing.com/
 
I just read a very good article online criticizing the apparitions at Medjugorje.
remnantnewspaper.com/Archives/2008-0930-allesio-vatican_disciplines_exspiritual.htm
Another interesting article:
cathnews.com/article.aspx?aeid=7452

Up to now, I’ve never really taken one side or the other. This is making me lean more toward a negative view.

On the other hand, I have read numerous accounts of people whose lives really appear to have been changed as a result of pilgrimages they made to Medjugorje. Perhaps God blessed them with real changes in their lives because of their faith, even though they were going to an unholy place? I don’t know. And I still don’t have an opinion on the veracity of these apparitions. I’m just pondering.
 
I don’t get it.

The church says they won’t approve this apparition.
Some keep wanting this appriaition.

Why?
 
Eucharisted said:
Here’s my newly created Medjugorje site: medjugorjeapparition.webs.com/
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Nice site.

You know, I think that miracle of the sun image that’s supposed to have taken place at Medjugorje may well have been from the devil. Because when I saw the UTube image, it was rather unimpressive. The sun looked like it flashed a few times, but that was it. It’s nothing like the array of rainbow colors, the spinning and dancing and falling to Earth as described at Fatima. In fact, when people compare that to Fatima they make Fatima sound a weaker event than it actually was, by the comparison. The lack of photographic evidence at Fatima makes the eyewitness accounts all the more impressive, because how could so many people have deluded themselves so completely, if there was absolutely nothing to see?

I am having serious trouble with the idea of the Medjugorje apparitions being genuine. The biggest difficulties I have, obviously, are the apparent false doctrine and the outright disobedience to Church authority. The fact that there have been thousands of messages that almost no one remembers anymore because of their incredible numbers and rather unimportant words speaks against them. Also the visionaries’ prosperity and the wild lies and breaking of vows by all the priests looking after the visionaries is a big problem. There are a lot of financial scandals and there is a lot of defiance against the Church’s authority going on in this. It damages the credibility of real apparitions in the eyes of many, at a time when we should be paying very careful attention to the messages of genuine Marian apparitions that have been approved by the Church, and should be applying their lessons and devotions in our lives.

Interestingly, the devil may want to attack all future Marian apparitions through this, not only by making Marian apparitions look bad through the scams and scandals, but for people believing in these apparitions too. Because one of the messages is that this will be the final Marian apparition. So for all the believers in Medjugorje, they can’t look to any other Marian signs after this as genuine.

This thing really looks untrustworthy to me. I can’t say I have reached a final decision in my view on this, but tonight’s research for me (and I’ve been reading about this for hours) has certainly drawn me closer to one. I’m glad. Though I’m disappointed that Medjugorje doesn’t look as good as I hoped it would. Anyway, thanks all for the opinions and news articles. They’ve been helpful.
 
Some things I’ve read about Medj. which have stuck in my mind:
  • Any miracles there are attributable to the presence of good Catholics coming together and praying; the Church in action;
  • It is an attempt by the Devil to distract from Fatima;
  • It’s character is quite different from previous apparations, which were to ignorant, innocent, dirt-poor children, who went on to lead exemplary lives;
  • There have been unseemly ructions there, including the man-handling of the local bishop;
  • 40,000 ‘appearances’ and no message of real substance. The BVM at Fatima offered concise and chilling messages, and then stopped.
  • The local bishop, not the Vatican, has the last word on such phenomena. And he has said nix. Even if it was really the Blessed Virgin Mary appearing, she would stop, so as not to cause division and scandal in the Church. Yet still it goes on; the Queen of Heaven appearing on demand like a TV weather girl. Ridiculous.
 
Layman said:
  • The local bishop, not the Vatican, has the last word on such phenomena. And he has said nix. Even if it was really the Blessed Virgin Mary appearing, she would stop, so as not to cause division and scandal in the Church. Yet still it goes on; the Queen of Heaven appearing on demand like a TV weather girl. Ridiculous.
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Ordinarily, this is the case, but not always. My understanding is that, although Bishop Zanic handed out his word on the subject, the investigation was then passed off to a larger body and is still underway. They won’t rule definitively until the (alleged) apparitions cease.

Isn’t Medjugorje a banned topic at CAF? I seem to remember reading that, but I can’t find any post from the mods to that effect at the moment. Maybe the only banned topic is trying to promote it since it hasn’t been approved. 🤷
 
Joe_5859 said:
Ordinarily, this is the case, but not always. My understanding is that, although Bishop Zanic handed out his word on the subject, the investigation was then passed off to a larger body and is still underway. They won’t rule definitively until the (alleged) apparitions cease.

Isn’t Medjugorje a banned topic at CAF? I seem to remember reading that, but I can’t find any post from the mods to that effect at the moment. Maybe the only banned topic is trying to promote it since it hasn’t been approved. 🤷
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Interesting post, Joe. Until the Church makes a final ruling themselves I suppose people
will continue to be interested. The Church is very patient on this for whatever reason.
One of the problems I heard about was that there were political problems before the war over there began and had some influence amongst authorities. Who can say?
Everyone carries some kind of baggage.
 
And now the rest of the story…
the Vatican’s current Secretary of State Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone wrote an official letter confirming that pilgrimages to Medjugorje are permitted and that the opinions on Medjugorje of Bishop Ratko Peric, the current Bishop of Mostar, are to be treated strictly “as his personal opinion” with no authority. Did you know that the Vatican responded with an implicit rebuke of Bishop Peric’s widely publicized June 15, 2006, condemnation of Medjugorje when Cardinal Vinko Puljic, president of the Bosnia and Hercegovina Bishops Conference and Archbishop of Sarajevo, announced on July 15, 2006, that “The Catholic Church is starting a new commission that will look into the Medjugorje events” thus reiterating the Vatican’s position that the apparition does not fall under Bishop Peric’s jurisdiction? Did you know that in his own hand Pope John Paul II wrote, “I thank Sophia for everything concerning Medjugorje. I, too, go there everyday as a pilgrim in my prayers”? Did you know that Blessed Mother Teresa, again in her own hand, wrote: “We are all praying one Hail Mary before Holy Mass to Our Lady of Medjugorje!”? Did you know that the world’s foremost exorcist, Fr. Gabriele Amorth, official exorcist of the Diocese of Rome who has performed more than 30,000 exorcisms, wrote, “Medjugorje is a fortress against Satan. Satan hates Medjugorje because it is a place of conversion, of prayer, of transformation of life”?
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queenship.org/productdetails.cfm?sku=3062
medjugorje-online.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9039
marytv.tv/html/book.html
ewtn.com/expert/answers/medjugorje.htm

Jurisdiction has been taken away from the local ordinary by the Vatican. The Vatican can never rule in favor of an apparition until it has concluded. They would have had a moral obligation to condemn it by now if there was anything against the faith of the Church.I will not risk condemning what may be our blessed mother’s work as diabolical or deception. Think about it, are any of you qualified to rule on this matter? How will you answer to our lady if you are wrong, and worked against her plans?. Medjugorje has not been condemned. The Vatican itself has taken over the reins and is still investigating. I will summit in obedience to whatever the Vatican rules.
 
How will you answer to our lady if you are wrong, and worked against her plans?
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I love the way Our Lord Jesus Christ answered this question. Margaret Mary was forbidden by her Superior to talk about the Sacred Heart of Jesus for a long while, because it was believed to be a diabolic devotion or some sort. Jesus appeared to her and she explained to Him that, in holy obedience, she could not speak to Him. His reply? “My Daughter, you give Me great glory in obeying the Superior over Me. Even if you were to reject Me for My sake, I would still love you, for your love of Me.” (Life of Blessed Margaret Mary)
 
Eucharisted said:
I love the way Our Lord Jesus Christ answered this question. Margaret Mary was forbidden by her Superior to talk about the Sacred Heart of Jesus for a long while, because it was believed to be a diabolic devotion or some sort. Jesus appeared to her and she explained to Him that, in holy obedience, she could not speak to Him. His reply? “My Daughter, you give Me great glory in obeying the Superior over Me. Even if you were to reject Me for My sake, I would still love you, for your love of Me.” (Life of Blessed Margaret Mary)
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This is too funny actually. Using one unapproved private revelation to disprove another.
 
The_Rock said:
Jurisdiction has been taken away from the local ordinary by the Vatican. The Vatican can never rule in favor of an apparition until it has concluded. They would have had a moral obligation to condemn it by now if there was anything against the faith of the Church.I will not risk condemning what may be our blessed mother’s work as diabolical or deception. Think about it, are any of you qualified to rule on this matter? How will you answer to our lady if you are wrong, and worked against her plans?. Medjugorje has not been condemned. The Vatican itself has taken over the reins and is still investigating. I will summit in obedience to whatever the Vatican rules.
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[My emphasis above] **And if the ‘apparitions’ never stop, then it’s business as usual in Medjugorje. **

None of the web addresses you listed look authoritative. If I have to answer to Our Lady, I will say “The local Bishop, your Son’s steward, ruled against it”.

I recall, from memory, that he said something like “If I believed the Holy Mother was truly gracing my diocese with her presence I would be very happy. What clergyman wouldn’t?”.
 
Layman said:
I recall, from memory, that he said something like “If I believed the Holy Mother was truly gracing my diocese with her presence I would be very happy. What clergyman wouldn’t?”.
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On the flipside, I’ve had priests tell me (tongue in cheek) that there are three things a pastor does NOT want to happen while they are at a parish:
(1) To have the nuns leave;
(2) To have the parish school close; and
(3) For a parishioner to (allegedly) have visions of the Virgin Mary.

🙂
 
Eucharisted said:
Actually, it is approved.
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That’s what I always thought. We now have a feast for the Sacred Heart of Jesus and Margaret Mary Alacoque is now Saint Margaret Mary Alacoque.

Grant it, I have not found an official declaration one way or the other (because I haven’t really looked), but this would seem to indicate that the Church looks favorably on St. Margaert Mary’s visions.
 
Hence the importance of getting some authoritative ruling on these things. The Church wisely says believing in them is not mandatory. False ‘seers’ and ‘visionaries’ can cause a lot of trouble.

When they start lookin’ for cash off you, and start behaving like pop stars, it’s time to head for the exit! 😉
 
The_Rock said:
And now the rest of the story…
queenship.org/productdetails.cfm?sku=3062
medjugorje-online.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9039
marytv.tv/html/book.html
ewtn.com/expert/answers/medjugorje.htm

Jurisdiction has been taken away from the local ordinary by the Vatican. The Vatican can never rule in favor of an apparition until it has concluded. They would have had a moral obligation to condemn it by now if there was anything against the faith of the Church.I will not risk condemning what may be our blessed mother’s work as diabolical or deception. Think about it, are any of you qualified to rule on this matter? How will you answer to our lady if you are wrong, and worked against her plans?. Medjugorje has not been condemned. The Vatican itself has taken over the reins and is still investigating. I will summit in obedience to whatever the Vatican rules.
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THANK YOU ROCK! That was refreshing.

EWTN.COM is most certainly an authentic website. It is important to be careful in these
matters. What is interesting is the resistance in anything that has an association
with anything Charismatic. Sr. Breige McKenna has quite a good reputation and as far as I recall has a ministry to priests. She was the one who had a vision of living waters
coming forth from where Fr. Tomislav was sitting.

It is still to be decided by the Church. I await the Church’s ruling (and only the Church’s).
Thanks for the websites.
 
EWTN is authentic, but it is not an authority on this apparition. The other sites listed are a forum and two sites selling or reviewing a book.

A simple test:

Compare and contrast the development of Medjugorje with Fatima and Lourdes. The ructions there have more in line with other, disapproved revelations than with the presence of the Mother of God.

In Ireland, recently, people were convinced that they could see the BVM in a tree-stump. It’s is very easy to gull people about religious phenomena. They want to believe it. However, even those to whom it happens authentically, saints like Padre Pio, are suspicious of the Devil’s wiles, for he can appear as an angel of light, or any other pleasing form.

Another poster in this forum said a clever thing. Something like:

If the local Bishop finds against it, they’ll wait for The Vatican to pronounce on it.
If The Vatican pronounces against it, they’ll say the Pope is the ultimate arbiter.
If The Pope comes out against it, they will then enter into schism with The Church.
It’s a well-worn path.
 
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