Fr. Pfleger calls for women priests, cardinals

[catharina]

I Cardinal George.

Sorry, just trying to spread some love in this thread.

The creation of the Didache textbook series alone (at Cardinal George’s request) is reason enough for me to forever think of him with fondness.

I love him too and admire him and pray for him.
His health issues alone put him in a special category of “needs our prayers.”
He does his work faithfully and with out looking for a spotlight.
Would that all Catholics would imitate his humility and obedience.

 

[catharina]

I don’t know if you are deliberately appearing to misunderstand, or if this is a function of the limitations of trying to communicate only in writing. I’ll make the charitable assumption and give this one more try. “Questioning” the decisions and conduct of others is not substituting our judgment for God’s. “Judge not lest ye be judged” is one of the most misused verses, by the way. But if you believe that you are to uncritically accept every statement and every decision of every Bishop and every Pope without “question”, you are going to be in for a world of intolerable pyschological tension when some of those statements and decisions conflict, as they invariably do. You are called to use the brain that God gave you.

I am stating what I know to be true.
I am NOT called upon to declare “heresy” and neither are you.
I am skilled at using the brain God gave me.
I am a 64 yr0ld cradle Catholic.
My earliest degree is in Theology.
One can ask questions.
One can take concerns to prayer.
One can share concerns with authorities.

One can NOT leap to the conclusion of “heresy” in the Catholic faith.
One can most certainly NOT seek to spread such a conclusion to others.
Calling a priest “prideful” is a horrible thing.
How could you possible “know” that?
I am talking about the practice of out faith.

The Church is not the Oprah show.

 

[Brooklyn]

I do NOT declare matters to be heresy - and neither should you.
That’s a call that the CHURCH makes after long investigation.
I can only guess that you know that too.

Get it yet???

In your posts, you are always calling for more charity and understanding, and I agree with you. Maybe one of the reasons Cardinal George seems to be treading lightly with Fr. P is to give him a chance to get things right without bringing a hammer down on his head. After all, the goal is never just to punish but to bring others to repentance and a right relationship with God.

Yet, despite your call for charity in regard to the priests and bishops, you respond with sarcasm and condescension to others. I don’t mean to make this about you, but maybe you could try a little more kindness and charity with the rest of us.

 

[catharina]

In your posts, you are always calling for more charity and understanding, and I agree with you. Maybe one of the reasons Cardinal George seems to be treading lightly with Fr. P is to give him a chance to get things right without bringing a hammer down on his head. After all, the goal is never just to punish but to bring others to repentance and a right relationship with God.

Yet, despite your call for charity in regard to the priests and bishops, you respond with sarcasm and condescension to others. I don’t mean to make this about you, but maybe you could try a little more kindness and charity with the rest of us.

There comes a time when one must speak.
For example to call a priest prideful?
To spread that opinion around?
That is NOT ok.

For example:

The seven practices of Catholic charity toward our neighbor’s soul:

» Admonish sinners

» Instruct the ignorant

» Counsel the doubtful

» Comfort the sorrowful

» Bear wrongs patiently

» Forgive injuries

» Pray for the living and the dead

 

[Super_Grover]

I am stating what I know to be true.
I am NOT called upon to declare “heresy” and neither are you.
I am skilled at using the brain God gave me.
I am a 64 yr0ld cradle Catholic.
My earliest degree is in Theology.
One can ask questions.
One can take concerns to prayer.
One can share concerns with authorities.

One can NOT leap to the conclusion of “heresy” in the Catholic faith.
One can most certainly NOT seek to spread such a conclusion to others.
Calling a priest “prideful” is a horrible thing.
How could you possible “know” that?
I am talking about the practice of out faith.

The Church is not the Oprah show.

Now I think that you may be blending issues of more posters than just me. I did not throw the term “heresy” at anyone. But I do know that female ordination is contrary to Church teaching. And if one believes that their personal opinions have primacy, that is the very definition of pride. So, scold away, but I qualified my statement as based on my own observation and opinion.

You may leave the door open to Fr. Pfleger HUMBLY offering his opinions as superior to Church teaching. I do not, and perhaps that means that you are more charitable than I. And, yes, the Church is not the Oprah show, although the Fr. Pfleger video did remind me of her show a bit.

 

[Brooklyn]

There comes a time when one must speak.
For example to call a priest prideful?
To spread that opinion around?
That is NOT ok.

For example:

The seven practices of Catholic charity toward our neighbor’s soul:

» Admonish sinners

» Instruct the ignorant

» Counsel the doubtful

» Comfort the sorrowful

» Bear wrongs patiently

» Forgive injuries

» Pray for the living and the dead

Hmmmm - “Bear wrongs patiently”, “forgive injuries”. Maybe you could bold and color those as well?

I’m not sure any of us appreciate being called ignorant either. Do you think you could maybe state your opinions (and they are opinions, just as what we state is opinion) with a little less sarcasm. An old cliche, but honey will get more flys than vinegar.

 

[catharina]

Now I think that you may be blending issues of more posters than just me. I did not throw the term “heresy” at anyone. But I do know that female ordination is contrary to Church teaching. And if one believes that their personal opinions have primacy, that is the very definition of pride. So, scold away, but I qualified my statement as based on my own observation and opinion.

You may leave the door open to Fr. Pfleger HUMBLY offering his opinions as superior to Church teaching. I do not, and perhaps that means that you are more charitable than I. And, yes, the Church is not the Oprah show, although the Fr. Pfleger video did remind me of her show a bit.

Cardinal George has authority over Father Pfleger.
You don’t and I don’t.
Calling him prideful is a no-go.

 

[catharina]

Hmmmm - “Bear wrongs patiently”, “forgive injuries”. Maybe you could bold and color those as well?

I’m not sure any of us appreciate being called ignorant either. Do you think you could maybe state your opinions (and they are opinions, just as what we state is opinion) with a little less sarcasm. An old cliche, but honey will get more flys than vinegar.

Yes, it’s tough to accept one is ignorant.
Everyone likes to pretend they know all.

Yet I am simply talking about Church Teaching. , not my opinions.
To attack a priest with venomous words, to insult his Bishop? Not a Catholic thing.
Of late, some Catholics seem to imagine it is a Catholic thing.

If such folks are flies, how lovely no one is using a fly-swatter.

As for bearing worngs patiently and forgiving injuries:
Cardinal George could easliy win awards for these.

 

[Super_Grover]

Cardinal George has authority over Father Pfleger.
You don’t and I don’t.

If you read my posts rather than picking individual sentences and offering your scolds, then you would see that this is the essential point that I made.

Calling him prideful is a no-go.

Offer some genuine authority for this and I will acquiesce and be grateful for you “instructing the ignorant” (as you bolded in red). Rather than hi-jack the thread you can send it me personally.

 

[catharina]

If you read my posts rather than picking individual sentences and offering your scolds, then you would see that this is the essential point that I made.

Offer some genuine authority for this and I will acquiesce and be grateful for you “instructing the ignorant” (as you bolded in red). Rather than hi-jack the thread you can send it me personally.

Why would I message you?
You just hijacked the thread.

As to your inquiry:**

The Corporal and Spiritual Works of Mercy
The Spiritual and Corporal Works of Mercy illustrate the ways to show charity toward others.

Directions
The Corporal Works of Mercy

•Feed the hungry
•Give drink to the thirsty
•Clothe the naked
•Shelter the homeless
•Visit the sick
•Visit the imprisoned
•Bury the dead

The Spiritual Works of Mercy
**•Admonish the sinner
•Instruct the ignorant **
•Counsel the doubtful
•Comfort the sorrowful
•Bear wrongs patiently
•Forgive all injuries
•Pray for the living and the dead **

Rather than calling a priest “prideful” perhaps you could adopt the red-bolded above.
Hope this is authoritative enough for you.

Or , if you feel it “fits,” then write to Father according to blue-bolded above.

 

[Brooklyn]

Yes, it’s tough to accept one is ignorant.
Everyone likes to pretend they know all.

Yet I am simply talking about Church Teaching. , not my opinions.
To attack a priest with venomous words, to insult his Bishop? Not a Catholic thing.
Of late, some Catholics seem to imagine it is a Catholic thing.

If such folks are flies, how lovely no one is using a fly-swatter.

As for bearing worngs patiently and forgiving injuries:
Cardinal George could easliy win awards for these.

I guess sacrcasm and condescension are just your way. No, “attacking” a bishop is never right, but then “attacking” anyone is never right. Everything we do should be done with love, always thinking of what is best for the other.

You will never bring anyone to agree with you as long as you continue to use such an angry tone in your posts, and in fact, will only drive people to disagree with you even more.

 

[qui_est_ce]

There comes a time when one must speak.

As I feel the need to after hearing and seeing his masses and mean-spirited words. Not becoming to a man of the cloth.

For example to call a priest prideful?

It is the priest who is behaving pridefully. Don’t attack the messenger

That is NOT ok.

For example:

The seven practices of Catholic charity toward our neighbor’s soul:

» Admonish sinners

» Instruct the ignorant **Are you listening Fr. Pfleger?
**
» Counsel the doubtful

» Comfort the sorrowful

» Bear wrongs patiently

» Forgive injuries

» Pray for the living and the dead

And these are not limited to the ordained. Works both ways.

 

[Inhimthroughher]

Yes, it’s tough to accept one is ignorant.
Everyone likes to pretend they know all.

Yet I am simply talking about Church Teaching. , not my opinions.
To attack a priest with venomous words, to insult his Bishop? Not a Catholic thing.
Of late, some Catholics seem to imagine it is a Catholic thing.

If such folks are flies, how lovely no one is using a fly-swatter.

As for bearing worngs patiently and forgiving injuries:
Cardinal George could easliy win awards for these.

Wrong. “Women’s Ordination” is Heresy. The Church has defined it as such and you refuse to admit it.

You are playing a game. You say no one should criticize others, while you criticize others. You say no one should criticize or question a bishop, even when it is not a magisterial teaching and the bishop or priest can and are in error, but you refuse to admit women’s ordination is heretical after the church has defined it as such and you are required to believe so.

 

[catharina]

I guess sacrcasm and condescension are just your way. No, “attacking” a bishop is never right, but then “attacking” anyone is never right. Everything we do should be done with love, always thinking of what is best for the other.

You will never bring anyone to agree with you as long as you continue to use such an angry tone in your posts, and in fact, will only drive people to disagree with you even more.

Angry, not angry? Who cares?
I support the teaching of the Church.
Did Our Lord ever get angry?
Yes. He did.

You missed an additon to my post.
I’ll repeat it for you:

"The Corporal Works of Mercy

•Feed the hungry
•Give drink to the thirsty
•Clothe the naked
•Shelter the homeless
•Visit the sick
•Visit the imprisoned
•Bury the dead

The Spiritual Works of Mercy
**•Admonish the sinner
•Instruct the ignorant **
•Counsel the doubtful
•Comfort the sorrowful
•Bear wrongs patiently
•Forgive all injuries
•Pray for the living and the dead

Or, if you feel it “fits,” then write to Father according to blue-bolded above."

You can’t possibly imagine you’re addressing Father here, can you???

 

[Joe_5859]

Maybe one of the reasons Cardinal George seems to be treading lightly with Fr. P is to give him a chance to get things right without bringing a hammer down on his head. After all, the goal is never just to punish but to bring others to repentance and a right relationship with God.

Okay, I just want to highlight this right here. This is the general point I was trying to get at earlier. Thank you for articulating it so well.

This is why I hesitate to be too critical of our Shepherds. Their goal is, ultimately, the salvation of souls. They are not out to appease certain demographics through media coverage. Even the very wise cannot see all ends.

 

[catharina]

Wrong. “Women’s Ordination” is Heresy. The Church has defined it as such and you refuse to admit it.

You are playing a game. You say no one should criticize others, while you criticize others. You say no one should criticize or question a bishop, even when it is not a magisterial teaching and the bishop or priest can and are in error, but you refuse to admit women’s ordination is heretical after the church has defined it as such and you are required to believe so.

There is no game.
I know that I am not Pope.

I have already stated that I do NOT believe in women’s ordination.
You missed that?

I follow Chrurch teaching.
When/if the Church declares Father Pfleger to be a heretic, then I’ll salute that.
Not until then.

 

[Inhimthroughher]

Angry, not angry? Who cares?
I support the teaching of the Church.
Did Our Lord ever get angry?
Yes. He did.

You missed an additon to my post.
I’ll repeat it for you:

"The Corporal Works of Mercy

•Feed the hungry
•Give drink to the thirsty
•Clothe the naked
•Shelter the homeless
•Visit the sick
•Visit the imprisoned
•Bury the dead

The Spiritual Works of Mercy
**•Admonish the sinner
•Instruct the ignorant **
•Counsel the doubtful
•Comfort the sorrowful
•Bear wrongs patiently
•Forgive all injuries
•Pray for the living and the dead

Or, if you feel it “fits,” then write to Father according to blue-bolded above."

You can’t possibly imagine you’re addressing Father here, can you???

Yes and others are calling out Heretics on thier Heresy, and correcting you, as the ignorant party, on not understanding what is heretical and what is not. If you supported the Church you would suppport her claims. Just say it its real easy. Type “Women’s Ordination is Heretical and to promote it is Heresy.”

 

[Brooklyn]

Angry, not angry? Who cares?
I support the teaching of the Church.
Did Our Lord ever get angry?
Yes. He did./QUOTE]

I think that an important part of the teaching of the Church is love. If you really believe that we are all on the wrong track and that only you have the truth, then don’t you want us to come to see that and embrace the truth as you have done? Hitting us over the head and calling us ignorant is not going to make that happen. It will only drive us away.

Do you think it is at all possible that just maybe you could be wrong, and that someone who thinks differently than you could be right? After all, I assume you are a fallible human being like all the rest of us.

 

[catharina]

Okay, I just want to highlight this right here. This is the general point I was trying to get at earlier. Thank you for articulating it so well.

This is why I hesitate to be too critical of our Shepherds. Their goal is, ultimately, the salvation of souls. They are not out to appease certain demographics through media coverage. Even the very wise cannot see all ends.

Absolutely, positively I got your point.
Plus I agree with youo 100%.
The Cardinal is blessed with the grace of his office -
and we are NOT so blessed.

 

[Inhimthroughher]

Can Cardinals make mistakes? Can they do bad things?