Freemasonary not being warned about?

[jamesclaude]

St. James:

Catholicism is founded in the social Kingship of Christ, the philosophy that Christ is the highest authority in all matters.

Freemasonry and Catholicism are completely incompatible. This would be self evident even in the absence of the numerous papal bulls which address the topic.

This is a simple matter.

It’s VERY simple indeed - so why keep comparing the two ?

The Lions Club and Kiwanis are both “incompatible” with the Roman Catholic Church ! Neither of these men’s fraternities value the Kingship of Christ or recognize the Authority of the Church. They let men in who can believe anything under the sun.

Masonry is not a church nor does it pretend to be

We’re not in competition.

We don’t beat up on the K of C

If you don’t like us ( doh ! ) , then leave us alone !

www.masonicinfo.com/anticatholic.htm

www.masonicinfo.com/KofC.htm

Don’t catholic schools include logic in their curriculum anymore ?

 

[HagiaSophia]

jamesclaude:

If you don’t like us ( doh ! ) , then leave us alone !

I hate to point this out, but it is you who are here in a Catholic forum. :ehh:

 

[St.James]

jamesclaude:

Masonry is not a church nor does it pretend to be

“Every Masonic Lodge is a temple of religion; and it’s teachings are instruction in religion.”

Albert Pike,. Morals and Dogma, p. 213

jamesclaude:

We’re not in competition

“The Papacy has been for a thousand years the torturer of humanity, the most shameless imposture in its presence to spiritual power of all ages . . . In presence of this spiritual cobra, this deadly, treacherous, murderous enemy, the most formidable power in the world, the unity of Italian Masonry is of absolute and supreme necessity.”

Albert Pike A. Pike, Dec. 28, 1886, letter to the Italian Grand Commander, (Official Bulletin, Sept. 1887, 173)

“Popery and priestcraft are so openly allied that they may be called the same. Nothing that can be named is more repugnant to Masonry, nothing to be more carefully guarded against, and this has always been well understood by all skillful masters” (Freemason’s Chronicle, 1887, I. 35)

 

[jamesclaude]

St. James:

“Every Masonic Lodge is a temple of religion; and it’s teachings are instruction in religion.”

Albert Pike,. Morals and Dogma, p. 213

“The Papacy has been for a thousand years the torturer of humanity, the most shameless imposture in its presence to spiritual power of all ages . . . In presence of this spiritual cobra, this deadly, treacherous, murderous enemy, the most formidable power in the world, the unity of Italian Masonry is of absolute and supreme necessity.”

Albert Pike A. Pike, Dec. 28, 1886, letter to the Italian Grand Commander, (Official Bulletin, Sept. 1887, 173)

“Popery and priestcraft are so openly allied that they may be called the same. Nothing that can be named is more repugnant to Masonry, nothing to be more carefully guarded against, and this has always been well understood by all skillful masters” (Freemason’s Chronicle, 1887, I. 35)

Two long-dead masons’ opinions - circa 19th Century.

Popes & Masons were stirring the soup in those days - antagonizing each other - sounds all too familiar, unfortunately…

 

[jamesclaude]

HagiaSophia:

I hate to point this out, but it is you who are here in a Catholic forum. :ehh:

And am open to all manner of bashing, huh ?

I am constantly reminded of it, Haggie - thank you.

I must be a masochist for sticking around…

 

[HagiaSophia]

jamesclaude:

And am open to all manner of bashing, huh ?

I am constantly reminded of it, Haggie - thank you.

I must be a masochist for sticking around…

In all candor I don’t really care what you do; but to complain about Catholics not leaving Masons alone when you show up in a Catholic forum frankly strikes me as a bit more than odd.

 

[St.James]

Can this account for jamesclaude’s activity?

Freemasons make no secret of desire for new members

Mark Hazlin
USA Today
Dec. 10, 2004 12:00 AM

"Freemasons say reports that they’re trying to take over the country are greatly exaggerated.

"But they are having a recruitment drive…

azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/preview/articles/1210freemasons1210.html

 

[jamesclaude]

St. James:

Can this account for jamesclaude’s activity?

Freemasons make no secret of desire for new members

Mark Hazlin
USA Today
Dec. 10, 2004 12:00 AM

"Freemasons say reports that they’re trying to take over the country are greatly exaggerated.

"But they are having a recruitment drive…

azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/preview/articles/1210freemasons1210.html

I wondered when the very hard-core on here would finally come up with that suspicion.

Haggia and St.James are now “curious” as to why I’m here.

Well, I’m gonna let the kitty play with that ball of yarn for a while -

Seriously, I read the USA TODAY link, and every bit of it is TRUE.

As I’ve repeatedly stated in the various threads regarding freemasonry, each state does its own thing. There is no “archbishop” of freemasonry over the whole USA. I have already mentioned that New York and Ohio have information drives. Texas Masons sponsored “This Old House” on Texas PBS stations for a year. We are not allowed to ask a man to join in most states of the USA - Texas included.

Back to “accounting for my activities” - I’ve been a member of this forum for a couple of weeks, and I have been reporting my impressions and encounters in this forum to my closest friends -three of whom are lodge brothers, and what we refer to as “well-informed brethren”. Not flying to D.C. in a black helicopter with Donald Rumsfeld or anything nearly as interesting. Just talking over pasta at Rocco’s over on 6th Street - with guys of my rank, no folders or tape recorders or F.B.I van parked outside - just “lunch with the boys.”

I told 'em that my biggest and most disappointing impression is that so many on here are so legalistic and dead-set to “defend” the Church against its perceived “enemies” - and that freemasonry is on top of the hit list.

My friends’ and lodge buddys’ reaction: “You’re wasting your time - why bump your head against a brick wall ?”

Other than being addicted to it ( & I’ve learned lots in just a couple of weeks ), I guess that I haven’t heard enough to chase me off quite yet. Plus, some of you are very nice- open to banter and cordial exchange of ideas and questions.

Some on here would argue with being nice, which I find to be totally amazing and yes, sad. Some might think you to be heretical. I had no idea that people like this still existed. It makes me think of the Sean Connery movie " The Name of the Rose" - sorta creepy.

Is it amazing or suspicious for a mason to attempt to correct 19th Century attitudes and beliefs about the Lodge - while at the same time learning more about the Roman Catholic Church ?

I sat through a lodge initiation the other night and listened more closely than I ever had - thinking of just about everyone in here that I’ve communicated with - listening for anything which might sound “tainted” or anti-Catholic in any stretch of the imagination. All that I heard were: Relief, Truth and Brotherly Love. Harmony prevailed in the midst of a chaotic world for an hour or two…

Ed King’s vanilla view on how men join and what the rules are:

www.masonicinfo.com/member.htm

That’s about as bold as it gets these days, but it’s a far cry from just 10 years ago. We had a fellow join recently who’d already given up on joining - he felt that since he didn’t **know **a Mason, he couldn’t even pick up the phone and call one of the lodges listed under “Fraternal Organizations” in the S.W. Bell Yellow Pages to merely inquire.

The times - I guess they are a changin’ …for some more than others it seems…

 

[HagiaSophia]

Actually that is a straw man which you can wrestle with. My post simply addressed your question, “Why don’t Catholics leave Masons alone” - I pointed out that insofar as I could tell, it was you a Mason, who has come into a Catholic forum so I failed to see the logic of your lament.

 

[Panis_Angelicas]

jamesclaude:

I have a copy of this document on my desk, have read it twice, fully comprehend it, am not deceived by Lucifer to believe otherwise ( that one’s for YOU, Spokenword! http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif ), and am quite clear as to what it conveys.

Obviously, if you’ve read my previous postings, this stand is not what I’d like it to be - and that’s a loss for good Roman Catholic men.

What’s a loss for good Roman Catholic men is that you still admit them into the lodge, presumably without telling them that this will make them unworthy to receive the Sacraments of their Faith. Very deceitful.

%between%

My new project is to research the good Cardinal’s background, philosophies and reasons for being such a fuddy-duddy.

Pride. The Cardinal, and cardinals before him, couldn’t possibly be right…and you and your lodge be wrong…

My Vatican source has informed me that at least 1/3 of the Curia belong to the fraternity, so it could be a political thing - who knows ?

Your Vatican source?! pahhhhhlease. How about a name and title? Hmmm? :ehh:

I DID contact the Diocese of Austin for the official church position. Father Harry Dean graciously returned my phone call and provided me with the 1981 Declaration On Masonic Associations via email.

If you have a Vatican source, why did you need to contact the Diocese of Austin for the Church’s Declaration on Masonic Associations?!

I may change my idea about him being a fuddy-duddy and become more enlightened - you’ll be the first to hear ! I’m not even sure if he is still alive, but there must be plenty of material from one who issues these declarations such as these…

Cardinal Ratzinger is alive and well, hasn’t your Vatican source informed you of that?

I insist in the name of decency and honor that before you initiate any Roman Catholic men into the Masonic lodge, you fully inform them of the Vatican’s Declaration. To keep such information from them would be heinous.
If the lodge exists to make men better, as you suggest, then a better man would be forthright with such information to potential new inductees.

 

[Panis_Angelicas]

jamesclaude:

I wondered when the very hard-core on here would finally come up with that suspicion.

Hardly a suspicion! It was an observation, based upon your very own words just a few posts above!

The primary purpose of a Masonic Lodge is to make new masons.

Haggia and St.James are now “curious” as to why I’m here.

Hagia & St. James know full well why you’re here. Don’t you?

Well, I’m gonna let the kitty play with that ball of yarn for a while -

That’s a little like the pot calling the kettle “black.”

[dquote]As I’ve repeatedly stated in the various threads regarding freemasonry, each state does its own thing. There is no “archbishop” of freemasonry over the whole USA. No, just freemason "Vatican sources…" Sorry, I can’t let go of that one. It just cracks me up too much…

Back to “accounting for my activities” - I’ve been a member of this forum for a couple of weeks, and I have been reporting my impressions and encounters in this forum to my closest friends -three of whom are lodge brothers, and what we refer to as “well-informed brethren”.

In what are they “well-informed?” Catholicism? Masonic history?

Not flying to D.C. in a black helicopter with Donald Rumsfeld or anything nearly as interesting.

Wow, you give yourself way too much credit. Do you think that Catholics think of Masons as flying around in choppers with Rummy? Hardly.

Just talking over pasta at Rocco’s over on 6th Street - with guys of my rank,

Ah, I should’ve known…Pasta! At Rocco’s! Folks, I think we’ve identified jamesclaude’s Vatican source!!!

no folders or tape recorders or F.B.I van parked outside -

oh, give it rest already. Who are you playing to? :yawn:

I told 'em that my biggest and most disappointing impression is that so many on here are so legalistic and dead-set to “defend” the Church against its perceived “enemies” - and that freemasonry is on top of the hit list.

You really pride yourself far too much, and are playing the martyr role melodramatically. We Catholics don’t have a hit list. We believe in avoiding sin and the near occasion of it. That which threatens our souls, we’re told to avoid. And we’re told to avoid involvement in the Masonic Lodge. What has the Catholic Church done to stop Masonry? Nothing. Just told It’s faithful members to stay away. Hit list…yeah, right…Watch out, jamesclaude…I think I hear a black helicopter overhead!

My friends’ and lodge buddys’ reaction: “You’re wasting your time - why bump your head against a brick wall ?”

Right. Those “well-informed brethren” know better than to bring their association to the pillar and foundation of Truth. It’ll only mean exposing things they’d rather not face up to…

Some on here would argue with being nice, which I find to be totally amazing and yes, sad. Some might think you to be heretical. I had no idea that people like this still existed. It makes me think of the Sean Connery movie " The Name of the Rose" - sorta creepy.

Some might call that a backhanded slap-in-the-face insult, under the guise of being “nice.” This, and your tongue-in-cheek parodies comparing us to conspiracy theorists makes you seem, oh-so sincere. Pardon me, your haughtiness is showing.

Is it amazing or suspicious for a mason to attempt to correct 19th Century attitudes and beliefs about the Lodge - while at the same time learning more about the Roman Catholic Church ?

Come on in and learn. We’re happy to enlighten you. What’s amazing and suspicious is how you constantly deride our beliefs and our hierarchy while you are so completely ignorant of it, yet you accuse us of the same regarding your association. Look in a mirror. Everything you’ve said about us, could be said about yourself.

I sat through a lodge initiation the other night and listened more closely than I ever had - thinking of just about everyone in here that I’ve communicated with - listening for anything which might sound “tainted” or anti-Catholic in any stretch of the imagination. All that I heard were: Relief, Truth and Brotherly Love. Harmony prevailed in the midst of a chaotic world for an hour or two…

Omit lodge initiation and insert Wiccan ritual. They would say the self-same thing. What would our Church say about that? Don’t get involved with them. Period.

Ed King’s vanilla view on how men join and what the rules are:

www.masonicinfo.com/member.htm

How many times are you going to post that link on masonic info on this Catholic board? We’ll take the Church’s word over the lodge’s, donchaknow?

 

[jamesclaude]

Panis Angelicas:

Hardly a suspicion! It was an observation, based upon your very own words just a few posts above!

Hagia & St. James know full well why you’re here. Don’t you?

That’s a little like the pot calling the kettle “black.”

You really pride yourself far too much, and are playing the martyr role melodramatically. We Catholics don’t have a hit list. We believe in avoiding sin and the near occasion of it. That which threatens our souls, we’re told to avoid. And we’re told to avoid involvement in the Masonic Lodge. What has the Catholic Church done to stop Masonry? Nothing. Just told It’s faithful members to stay away. Hit list…yeah, right…Watch out, jamesclaude…I think I hear a black helicopter overhead!

Right. Those “well-informed brethren” know better than to bring their association to the pillar and foundation of Truth. It’ll only mean exposing things they’d rather not face up to…

Some might call that a backhanded slap-in-the-face insult, under the guise of being “nice.” This, and your tongue-in-cheek parodies comparing us to conspiracy theorists makes you seem, oh-so sincere. Pardon me, your haughtiness is showing.

Come on in and learn. We’re happy to enlighten you. What’s amazing and suspicious is how you constantly deride our beliefs and our hierarchy while you are so completely ignorant of it, yet you accuse us of the same regarding your association. Look in a mirror. Everything you’ve said about us, could be said about yourself.

Omit lodge initiation and insert Wiccan ritual. They would say the self-same thing. What would our Church say about that? Don’t get involved with them. Period.

How many times are you going to post that link on masonic info on this Catholic board? We’ll take the Church’s word over the lodge’s, donchaknow?

Sorta like Paul Newman in “Coolhand Luke” ?

" I got my mind right, boss. "

It’s beginning to make sense to me now.

I’m beginning to get the picture, Panis…

You would’ve been great back in the day of family-size bar-b-que: the Inquisition - right up front with the lighter - with the T-shirt that says: W.W.J.B. - “Who Would Jesus Barbeque ?”

Just for fun, here’s another kwazy link for ya - it showcases similar anti-masons, and Bishop Xavier Mier E. Campello, the Bishop of Almeria :

www.masonicinfo.com/famousanti.htm

The bishop is circa 1815, but who’s counting ? Sounds like he was a barrel of monkeys, and probably someone else who wouldn’t be much fun to have a Budweiser with - over at Rocco’s…

How many times am I gonna post " that link on this Catholic board" ? As long as I keep running into misinformation.
Be it from you or how you portray the Church to feel about it.

Besides, it’s never the same link over and over again- the last word of the link always addresses a different topic of misunderstanding or an area of curiosity.

I chose that site on purpose - because it’s NOT an institutional or “official” masonic site. It’s one mason and his views. He doesn’t over-glorify our fraternity, and he is fair.

As with the link referenced above, it DOES point out people who’ve been sorta “unfair” to the masons in days gone by - please indulge me, if you will…

I think that most modern masons and Catholics are willing to forgive past hostilities and move on.

" See everything, overlook a great deal, correct a little."

- Pope John XXIII

 

[Panis_Angelicas]

jamesclaude:

Sorta like Paul Newman in “Coolhand Luke” ?

" I got my mind right, boss. "

It’s beginning to make sense to me now.

I’m beginning to get the picture, Panis…

You would’ve been great back in the day of family-size bar-b-que: the Inquisition - right up front with the lighter - with the T-shirt that says: W.W.J.B. - “Who Would Jesus Barbeque ?”

Yes, those “we just wanna be nice Masons” are part of the “judge not” crowd, aren’t they? I find your smack downs and irreverent humor purely ignorant and not at all funny, if that’s what you’re aiming for. And it isn’t because you’re a mason. One of my favorite in-laws is a mason. I know some, I like 'em. I’m just not joining the ranks ~ got it?

Just for fun, here’s another kwazy link for ya - it showcases some of your boo-hoo buddies, including Bishop Xavier Mier E. Campello, the Bishop of Almeria :

www.masonicinfo.com/people.htm I’m not reading the links from your “well-informed, fair-minded mason.” NOT going there. Capisce?

Circa 1815, but who’s counting ? Sounds like he was a barrel of monkeys, and probably someone else who wouldn’t be much fun to have a Budweiser with - over at Rocco’s…

The masons have no skeletons in their closets. They’ve been upright, moral citizens from day one. Since they don’t live in glass houses, it’s safe for them to throw stones at Catholic clergy.
You come on a Catholic forum and keep pouring on the smart-aleck insults, and calling it kindness. And you actually think that we’re somehow strange for not completely trusting you…kitty, you’re getting tangled in your yarn.

** How many times am I gonna post " that link** on this Catholic board" ? Not quite sure on that one. Besides, it’s never the same one over and over - the last word of the link always addresses a different topic of misunderstanding or particulary topical information. Duh. Same website. A masonic source, defending and explaining freemasonry. On another thread, we have mormons directing us to LDS sites to verify the truth of their beliefs.

I chose that site on purpose - because it’s NOT an institutional or “official” masonic site. It’s one mason and his views. He doesn’t over-glorify our fraternity, and he is fair.

So, an official masonic site would be one that would overglorify the fraternity, so you had to find an individual who could put a better flavor on it for us?

As with the link referenced above, it DOES point out people who’ve been sorta “unfair” to the masons in days gone by - please indulge me, if you will…

People have been sorta unfair to Catholics in days gone by…and still today as well. But we’re the one group who doesn’t go about whining about it. We don’t have an anti-defamation league, so to speak, nor a special “Catholic caucus,” nor a “Roman Catholic Civil liberties union.” Gimme a break.

I think that most modern masons and Catholics are willing to forgive past hostilities and move on.

it’s funny that you would close with this sort of a statement, when you’ve accused me of as much as burning masons at the stake, ridiculing the name of Our Lord with the motto “Who would Jesus Burn,” dredging up some - no, I won’t read it - criticisms of Catholic Clergy circa 1800, making ignorant references to the Inquisition, and then claim that “most modern masons” “are willing to forgive” and move on. (Yeah, so long as they can reel in some Catholic members…)

The more you post, the more transparent you become.
You have no real interest in the Catholic Church’s teachings.

You simply want to convince Roman Catholics AGAINST what their Church instructs.

Sorry, not buying.

 

[jamesclaude]

Panis Angelicas:

Yes, those “we just wanna be nice Masons” are part of the “judge not” crowd, aren’t they? I find your smack downs and irreverent humor purely ignorant and not at all funny, if that’s what you’re aiming for. And it isn’t because you’re a mason. One of my favorite in-laws is a mason. I know some, I like 'em. I’m just not joining the ranks ~ got it?

Got it. This STILL reminds me of the Sean Connery movie:
**“The Name of the Rose”. ( A sense of humor got innocent monks killed ) **

When have I even alluded to “joining our ranks” - in ANY of my postings in this forum ? I provided a web link to show how we screen members, that’s about the extent of it.

I’m not reading the links from your “well-informed, fair-minded mason.” NOT going there. Capisce?

By all means, please don’t. I read the Vatican and Diocese of Austin websites regularly - I don’t feel misled whatsoever.

The masons have no skeletons in their closets. They’ve been upright, moral citizens from day one. Since they don’t live in glass houses, it’s safe for them to throw stones at Catholic clergy.

Only the mean 'uns - those mice in the cookie jar - pretending to be cookies…

You come on a Catholic forum and keep pouring on the smart-aleck insults, and calling it kindness. And you actually think that we’re somehow strange for not completely trusting you…kitty, you’re getting tangled in your yarn.

It’s a LOT like herding cats to even TRY to reason with you…

Duh. Same website. A masonic source, defending and explaining freemasonry. On another thread, we have mormons directing us to LDS sites to verify the truth of their beliefs.

I’m not trying to verify** what we believe** to be truth - just factual history and the** current relationship** between freemasonry and the Catholic Church. ** “Just the facts, m’aam” - Dragnet**

So, an official masonic site would be one that would overglorify the fraternity, so you had to find an individual who could put a better flavor on it for us?

Nope. Just less formal and less stodgy - and more user-friendly.

People have been sorta unfair to Catholics in days gone by…and still today as well. But we’re the one group who doesn’t go about whining about it. We don’t have an anti-defamation league, so to speak, nor a special “Catholic caucus,” nor a “Roman Catholic Civil liberties union.” Gimme a break.

Neither do we. Freemasonry as an institution has traditonally remained silent in the face of any and all criticism.** It’s just gotten so outrageous lately, that some of us now choose to answer back. On our own. Helluva concept.**

it’s funny that you would close with this sort of a statement, when you’ve accused me of as much as burning masons at the stake, ridiculing the name of Our Lord with the motto “Who would Jesus Burn,” dredging up some - no, I won’t read it - criticisms of Catholic Clergy circa 1800, making ignorant references to the Inquisition, and then claim that “most modern masons” “are willing to forgive” and move on. (Yeah, so long as they can reel in some Catholic members…)

I certainly wouldn’t wish to reel you or any other Catholic of your ilk into our dastardly fold. Cestusdei ( a priest ) and I have agreed that Ratzinger’s “Declaration on Masonic Organizations” should be made widely available to lodges so that they are aware of the current Vatican position before initiating a Roman Catholic into the lodge - and to share that information.

The more you post, the more transparent you become.
You have no real interest in the Catholic Church’s teachings.

TRANSPARENCY IS MY GOAL, Panis. Modern masonry has nothing to hide. **(**No comment for the smack about what you believe my “interest” to be.)

You simply want to convince Roman Catholics AGAINST what their Church instructs.

---

I only wish to correct the rampant ignorance and ongoing hostility between minorities ( such as yourself ) in both Church and masonry - who are hellbent to continue being knuckleheads.

Sorry, not buying.

The order pad has never been taken out of the desk…

" A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion " Proverbs 18:2

**Do ALL Roman Catholics feel like Panis ? **I truly wanna know if his attitudes are widespread -

 

[St.James]

“The fight taking place between Catholicism and Freemasonry is a fight to the very death, ceaseless and merciless.” (Bulletin of the Grand Orient of France P. 183. 1892 and in memorandum of the Supreme Council No. 85, page 48. )

"Let us remember that Christianity and Freemasonry are essentially incompatible, to such an extent, that to become united with one means being divorced from the other. Let us, therefore, expose Freemasonry as the enemy of God, of the Church and of our Motherland " Pope Leo XIII, December 8, 1892

“TO FIGHT AGAINST PAPACY IS A SOCIAL NECESSITY AND CONSTITUTES THE CONSTANT DUTY OF FREEMASONRY.” (Masonic International Congress held in Brussels 1904, page 132 of the report. )

"Let US meditate upon the serious evils which are usually the result of those kinds of Societies or centers, not only concerning the peace of temporal States, but still more as regards the salvation of souls. Those Societies are not in agreement with the civil and economic laws of the States.

“In order to close the widely open road to iniquities which might be committed with impunity and also for other reasons, just and reasonable, that have come to our knowledge . . . We have resolved and decreed to condemn and forbid such Societies, assemblies, reunions, conventions, aggregations or meetings called either Freemasonic or known under some other denomination. WE CONDEMN AND FORBID THEM BY THIS, OUR PRESENT CONSTITUTION, WHICH IS TO BE CONSIDERED VALID FOR EVER.” Pope Clement XII, “In Eminenti” April 28, 1738

 

[Panis_Angelicas]

jamesclaude:

I’m not trying to verify** what we believe** to be truth - just factual history and the** current relationship** between freemasonry and the Catholic Church. “Just the facts, m’aam” - Dragnet

**Do ALL Roman Catholics feel like Panis ? **I truly wanna know if his attitudes are widespread -

My attitude, jamesclaude, is that the Vatican has spoken, and there is no “current relationship between freemasonry and the Catholic Church,” despite your claims that there is…despite your boasting about initiating new Catholic members into your association…despite your preaching to us about how evil we might be or our Church might’ve been, while portraying your organization as some group of valiant white knights upon steeds.
It’s intellectually dishonest, to say the least.

If you want to come here to dialogue, fine.

But your form of “dialogue” is slapping folks in the face with an olive branch and calling it nice, friendly conversation. Nothin’ nice friendly about it, as anyone who’s read your remarks can plainly see. If you represent the current attitudes of masons toward Catholics, then you’ve shown us all pretty well where the association stands, without your even realizing it.

 

[St.James]

jamesclaude:

Modern masonry has nothing to hide.

That’s what they keep telling us, it’s a secret society that, “has nothing to hide.” It only gets more dishonest from there.

I guess since William James was shot in the head and killed during a Masonic Ritual (ritual murder, anyone?) in Long Island, NY earlier this year, it’s been necessary to launch a propaganda offensive as a distraction from what was a rare look inside the true nature of Freemasonry.

Thinking people aren’t swayed by rhetoric or propaganda. The facts on Freemasonry remain.

 

[jamesclaude]

“The fight taking place between Catholicism and Freemasonry is a fight to the very death, ceaseless and merciless.” (Bulletin of the Grand Orient of France P. 183. 1892 and in memorandum of the Supreme Council No. 85, page 48. )

"Let us remember that Christianity and Freemasonry are essentially incompatible, to such an extent, that to become united with one means being divorced from the other. Let us, therefore, expose Freemasonry as the enemy of God, of the Church and of our Motherland " Pope Leo XIII, December 8, 1892

“TO FIGHT AGAINST PAPACY IS A SOCIAL NECESSITY AND CONSTITUTES THE CONSTANT DUTY OF FREEMASONRY.” (Masonic International Congress held in Brussels 1904, page 132 of the report. )

"Let US meditate upon the serious evils which are usually the result of those kinds of Societies or centers, not only concerning the peace of temporal States, but still more as regards the salvation of souls. Those Societies are not in agreement with the civil and economic laws of the States.

“In order to close the widely open road to iniquities which might be committed with impunity and also for other reasons, just and reasonable, that have come to our knowledge . . . We have resolved and decreed to condemn and forbid such Societies, assemblies, reunions, conventions, aggregations or meetings called either Freemasonic or known under some other denomination. WE CONDEMN AND FORBID THEM BY THIS, OUR PRESENT CONSTITUTION, WHICH IS TO BE CONSIDERED VALID FOR EVER.” Pope Clement XII, “In Eminenti” April 28, 1738

Respectfully - I don’t disagree that EACH of these things happened when they did - and I’m aware of the mutual strains which existed back then.

( 1738- the beginnings of the Enlightenment, 1904, 1892 - the height of the antagonisms, Irish Italian and German immigration - please take into consideration the TIME FRAMES ).

I’m talking about NOW - ** post Vatican II - post 1982 declarations** - what do modern catholics feel about masonry NOW ?

Do we wish to return to the hysteria of the “bad old days” ?

I certainly hope not, but some appear to feed upon it.

December 12 + Third Sunday of Advent +

 

[St.James]

jamesclaude:

I’m talking about NOW - post Vatican II - post 1982 declarations - what do modern catholics feel about masonry NOW ?

Is March 8, 2004 recent enough for you?

 

[jamesclaude]

St. James:

Is March 8, 2004 recent enough for you?

FRESH nastiness ? Sure ! Why not ?

I’m all ears - we’re obviously not making any progress here - might as well…

Oh - the NY shooting thing with the old man who carried the pistol around all the time ? Some people ought not to carry guns anywhere - especially NOT to the lodge hall or to church - definitely not to school -

www.masonicinfo.com/ny_shooting.htm

We don’t use guns in masonic ritual - they didn’t exist when it was written ( besides: swords are MUCH quieter ! )

You guys crack me up !