Freemasonary not being warned about?

[jamesclaude]

SPOKENWORD:

Im just a DA DA DA blowing in the wind waiting for you to tell me to turn on the waterhose. By the way I dont use Sears brand for they are not reliable. The Hose I use throws out living water[Word of God]. The TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE.

Like my Southern Grandma used to say:

" You just go on right ahead…"

 

[PaulDupre]

Hi jamesclaude,
I am curious about why you are involved in Freemasonry in the first place. What attracted you to it, and what do you get from membership as a Freemason that you cannot get as an Anglican?
Paul

 

[caroljm36]

Do people actually still join the Masons? I thought it was strictly old men. Has there been a resurgence in interest? In my town, the Masons, Elks and Moose are practically moribund. Eagles is still going strong for some reason, but when I joined it the ceremony was so quasi-religious that it turned me off. I don’t think secular raternal groups should take on religious airs.

 

[Katholikos]

My Vatican source has informed me that at least 1/3 of the Curia belong to the fraternity

This is a fallacy that started with the allegations of a disgruntled ex-Jesuit and author named Malachi Martin who saw conspiracies under every rock. Since any Catholic who is affiliated with the Masons is in a state of mortal sin and is forbidden to receive Holy Communion, this allegation is utterly absurd.

Cardinal Ratzinger takes his orders from JP2. So if you want to know the source of the 1983 directive concerning the Masons, look to the Pope.

Repeat: ** Any Catholic who is affiliated with the Masons is in a state of mortal sin and is forbidden to receive Communion. **

JMJ Jay

 

[wabrams]

What I think is a riot is the fact that a lot of people of this forum harp about this being because most of the signers of the Dec. of Independence and the Constitution were good Christian men, yet almost everyone was a Mason. The stuff that makes ya go “Hmmm??”.

My take on the idea of the Mason’s being evil, etc. is that people like to label anything that is purposely kept out of public view evil or wicked. Fraternities in college have weird rituals and oaths they take that are rarely talked about outside the confines of the brothers, so does that make them evil? No. So if you don’t know about it, don’t attack it.

 

[jamesclaude]

PaulDupre:

Hi jamesclaude,
I am curious about why you are involved in Freemasonry in the first place. What attracted you to it, and what do you get from membership as a Freemason that you cannot get as an Anglican?
Paul

First of all, why would I even think to compare my church life with what I do at my men’s fraternity ? Why does a Presbyterian boy join Kappa Alpha fraternity at UT ? It is an “apples and oranges” comparison…

I’m pretty sure that Catholics socialize outside the Church- am I wrong about this ? Don’t they join non-catholic organizations ?

The masonic fraternity brings men of different cultures and faiths together - who might never otherwise EVER meet each other.

Why would I join the Lions club rather than just go to church ? Maybe because I admire men in the community who aren’t Episcopalians who belong to the Lions - and help out the community.

Likewise, I joined freemasonry because the leaders of my town belonged to it - I admired these men, and the leading citizens were freemasons. I also knew that 15 of our US Presidents were Masons - I play Beethoven and Mozart and knew that they were Masons. There are many more reasons

Do shake loose of this idea that the lodge is somehow a church, or “religion” and you’ll have a much better grasp of the subject.

The lodge has been a way to tap into the “tribe” - the “elders” - “the knowledge of the Ages” - whatever you may call it - there ARE good things to know outside the church, you know…

My lodge brothers would show up on my front lawn if my house were to burn down within the next hour - all asking what I need them to do to help. Not just offering prayers and sending a check for $ 100 as some sort of token - they’d be clearing the rubble and calling the lumber company.

With all due respect - asking me “what I get out of the Masons that I cannot get out of the Anglican Church” is the equivalent of asking why I don’t shop for tires at the barber shop.

I have to laugh when I think of the “ultimate” test of brotherhood in my own lodge - during the recent presidential election, we were DYING to jab each other about our personal choices for president ! The tension hung heavy in the air… But… the TWO topics not allowed to be discussed in the lodge room are: religion and politics.

It keeps things friendly that way - brotherly. Above the door in many lodgerooms is a sign that reads: " I am my brother’s keeper" - I like that.

 

[PaulDupre]

Hi James,
I know what you mean about fraternity. I joined the Knights of Columbus (a Catholic Men’s Fraternal Order) for some of the same reasons you joined the Masons - plus I wanted to hang out with orthodox Catholic men, and KofC is where they tend to be. So I sort of get the best of both worlds.
Between KofC and the other parish stuff I get involved in, I have a lot of Charity and apostolate action to keep me busy.
I also see what you mean about meeting good men outside your own faith tradition. I don’t get as much of that as I’d like. But then, when I meet men of other faiths they are often suspicious of me because I am Catholic. You probably don’t get that as an Episcopal - at least not to the same degree. Do your brother Masons not know one another’s religious affiliations? Or do they just not care?
Thanks for the explanation.
God bless you,
Paul

 

[jamesclaude]

PaulDupre:

Hi James,
I know what you mean about fraternity. I joined the Knights of Columbus (a Catholic Men’s Fraternal Order) for some of the same reasons you joined the Masons - plus I wanted to hang out with orthodox Catholic men, and KofC is where they tend to be. So I sort of get the best of both worlds.
Between KofC and the other parish stuff I get involved in, I have a lot of Charity and apostolate action to keep me busy.
I also see what you mean about meeting good men outside your own faith tradition. I don’t get as much of that as I’d like. But then, when I meet men of other faiths they are often suspicious of me because I am Catholic. You probably don’t get that as an Episcopal - at least not to the same degree. Do your brother Masons not know one another’s religious affiliations? Or do they just not care?
Thanks for the explanation.
God bless you,
Paul

Thanks, Paul - you ask the bestest questions !

It dawned on me the other day that I don’t know the denomination of about half the brethren in the lodge.

Since every Mason is entitled to a Masonic burial, sometimes that’s when we find out - when the church location is announced, or by whatever the priest or minister says / looks like when we arrive at the cemetery.

We buried a dear brother in August whom I had no idea belonged to my own church, but who had been inactive for quite some time. ( He was 95 ). I was pleasantly surprised to see a priest from our church co-officiating at the graveside - we had a bottle of water together ( TX funeral homes are providing that nowadays it seems- when the mercury’s over 90 degrees ) - a nice gesture, and he was curious to know about the Masons.

In the smaller towns, Episcopalians are looked upon with some suspicion - the Baptists can’t understand the “protestant, yet catholic” thing. They ask “which ARE you ?” ( Growing up in a town of 10,000, I can’t even begin to COUNT how many Baptist churches there are! )

The Methodists pretty much know because John Wesley and his brother Charles were priests in the Church of England - they know their heritage and even sorta like us.

The current High Priest of our York Rite Chapter of Royal Arch Masons is not only Catholic, but Hispanic as well. Many of our newest members have Hispanic surnames, and are doubtless members of the Roman Catholic faith. Affiliations of church and clubs are read aloud when a member’s petition is presented to the lodge - before an investigation committee is appointed by the master of the lodge. That’s the only way I know what a man belongs to other than just getting to know him ( or gulp burying him).

My brother is a 4th degree K of C, and I’ve ordered a ring for him for Christmas - I hope it fits ! His K of C chapter sent a very nice brass bas-relief wall hanging of Jesus on the Sea of Gallilee as a gift for my installation as worshipful master of my lodge last year…

Hope this helps, Paul - if I don’t know the answer, I promise not to ad lib http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif

 

[cestusdei]

One thing I like about the K of C’s is that blacks may belong. Now the Masonic lodge…well that’s not the case.

 

[jamesclaude]

cestusdei:

One thing I like about the K of C’s is that blacks may belong. Now the Masonic lodge…well that’s not the case.

Well, that sounds like Mason-baiting. Good try.

 

[jamesclaude]

cestusdei:

They need to respect the Catholic faith and our discipline. If they continue I will publically preach against them without hesitation.

and make stuff up, too ? trying to stir the soup ?

 

[atsheeran]

I think that if Catholics were to look more deeply into Freemasonry they would find some things to be very curious. What I mean is, I have seen a lot of weird things concerning masonic symbols and their relation to the Catholic Church.

One of the Masons’ favorite symbols is the obelisk. The largest obelisk in the world (I think) is the Washington Monument in D.C. According to some masonic literature it is a symbol for “the deity”. They also acknowledge that it is a phallic symbol.

The obelisk was worshipped in ancient Egypt. In Roman times, Roman armies sacked Egypt and brought many obelisks back to Rome. As many know, St. Peter himeself was crucified upside down at the foot of the obelisk that is now the center of St. Peter’s square.

Pope Sixtus V in the 16th century was aware of what the obelisks really meant. He ordered that all of the obelisks in Rome be topped with crosses to symbolize Christ’s victory over evil. There was something so dark about the symbol that it could not be allowed to stand on its own. At the base of the obelisk in at the Vatican was inscribed:

CHRISTVS VINCIT
CHRISTVS REGNAT
CHRISTVS IMPERAT
CHRISTVS ABOMNIMALO
PLEBUM SVAM
DEFENDAT

And this is the symbol embraced by Freemasons. Certainly This is not a conclusory argument in demonstrating that the Freemasons are an evil organization. However, there are many such inconclusory arguments and when you add them up the evidence is undeniable.

Pope Leo XIII warned about Freemasons in his encyclical Custodi Di Quella Fede:
“Let Us then show you masonry as an enemy of God, Church, and country. Recognize it as such once and for all, and with all the weapons which reason, conscience, and faith put in your hands, defend yourselves from such a proud foe. Let no one be taken in by its attractive appearance or allured by its promises; do not be seduced by its enticements or frightened by its threats. Remember that Christianity and masonry are essentially irreconcilable, such that to join one is to divorce the other. You can no longer ignore such incompatibility between Catholic and mason, beloved children: you have been warned openly by Our predecessors, and We have loudly repeated the warning.”

So did his predecessor Pope Clement XII in his Papal Bull In Eminenti:
“Now it has come to Our ears, and common gossip has made clear, that certain Societies, Companies, Assemblies, Meetings, Congregations or Conventicles called in the popular tongue Liberi Muratori or Francs Massons or by other names according to the various languages, are spreading far and wide and daily growing in strength; and men of any Religion or sect, satisfied with the appearance of natural probity, are joined together, according to their laws and the statutes laid down for them, by a strict and unbreakable bond which obliges them, both by an oath upon the Holy Bible and by a host of grievous punishment, to an inviolable silence about all that they do in secret together. But it is in the nature of crime to betray itself and to show itself by its attendant clamor. Thus these aforesaid Societies or Conventicles have caused in the minds of the faithful the greatest suspicion, and all prudent and upright men have passed the same judgment on them as being depraved and perverted. For if they were not doing evil they would not have so great a hatred of the light.”

Is there any possibility that these popes knew something that we do not?

That being said, I reject any claim that all (or even most) Masons are evil people. I believe that they are deceived and lied to about what Freemasonry is all about. They are only given a little bit of information at a time; slowly drawn in step by step. I would pray for individual masons, not judge them.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

jamesclaude:

and make stuff up, too ? trying to stir the soup ?

So you think I,m here to lie to you? Lying is a sin that God HATES. Why would I go against the Word of God.? Would I be any better off by trying to save your soul and condemming mine.? You need to put some serious thought in what Im saying to you.Satan is the master of deception. Come out of this darkness in Jesus name. You are caught in the devils grip and only the Holy Spirit can draw you out. Seek help in your Church and PRAY that God will set you FREE.

 

[jamesclaude]

SPOKENWORD:

So you think I,m here to lie to you? Lying is a sin that God HATES. Why would I go against the Word of God.? Would I be any better off by trying to save your soul and condemming mine.? You need to put some serious thought in what Im saying to you.Satan is the master of deception. Come out of this darkness in Jesus name. You are caught in the devils grip and only the Holy Spirit can draw you out. Seek help in your Church and PRAY that God will set you FREE.

Dear Spokenword:

If you’d put down your box of Red Hots and please read to whom that remark was directed ( cestusdei ).

He had made what politicians nowadays call a “misstatement”
( that freemasonry isn’t integrated ).

Slam that devil in the closet and please pay attention !

 

[SPOKENWORD]

jamesclaude:

Dear Spokenword:

If you’d put down your box of Red Hots and please read to whom that remark was directed ( cestusdei ).

He had made what politicians nowadays call a “misstatement”
( that freemasonry isn’t integrated ).

Slam that devil in the closet and please pay attention !

My appoligies James, second mistake on this forum. Sometimes my head spins 360 degrees and I know its not me. God Bless.

 

[jamesclaude]

SPOKENWORD:

My appoligies James, second mistake on this forum. Sometimes my head spins 360 degrees and I know its not me. God Bless.

Aplogy accepted, Spokenword. No offense taken…

As long as there’s no pea soup flying around the room when your head spins around like that…

James

December 8 + Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary +

 

[jamesclaude]

atsheeran:

I think that if Catholics were to look more deeply into Freemasonry they would find some things to be very curious. What I mean is, I have seen a lot of weird things concerning masonic symbols and their relation to the Catholic Church.

One of the Masons’ favorite symbols is the obelisk. The largest obelisk in the world (I think) is the Washington Monument in D.C. According to some masonic literature it is a symbol for “the deity”. They also acknowledge that it is a phallic symbol.

The obelisk was worshipped in ancient Egypt. In Roman times, Roman armies sacked Egypt and brought many obelisks back to Rome. As many know, St. Peter himeself was crucified upside down at the foot of the obelisk that is now the center of St. Peter’s square. However, there are many such inconclusory arguments and when you add them up the evidence is undeniable.

PLEASE find and produce a Masonic trestleboard or Monitor which contains ANY reference whatsoever to an obelisk !

It has NO place in our allegorical system. Period.

The nearest thing to a “phallic symbol” which Masons use in their symbols is a broken column - to represent a life cut short by an untimely death ( certainly NOT as phallic symbol ! )

We do not “worship” ANY symbol. As we have no “official” position on Catholicism, likewise we have no official “favorite symbols”.

My favorite Masonic symbol is the beehive ( industry ).

Freemasons certainly laid and dedicated the cornerstone of the Washington Monument " in due and ancient form", but that’s the extent of it.

There is no room in true scholarship or fact for " I think ".

…but… **I think **that I need a Dr. Pepper about now…

 

[HagiaSophia]

Katholikos:

This is a fallacy that started with the allegations of a disgruntled ex-Jesuit and author named Malachi Martin who saw conspiracies under every rock. Since any Catholic who is affiliated with the Masons is in a state of mortal sin and is forbidden to receive Holy Communion, this allegation is utterly absurd.

The allegations about Masonry were in the headlines of most European media by the scandal which broke surrounding prominent members of law, politics. financiers and the Church. He did not start the stories, they happened. While he addressed them in a couple of his books, they did not originate with him.

The cold hard facts are that Catholics are forbidden to belong to the Masons and with good, justifable cause to anyone who knows the history of Masonry and the Catholic Church.

 

[jamesclaude]

Katholikos:

This is a fallacy that started with the allegations of a disgruntled ex-Jesuit and author named Malachi Martin who saw conspiracies under every rock. Since any Catholic who is affiliated with the Masons is in a state of mortal sin and is forbidden to receive Holy Communion, this allegation is utterly absurd.

I have no idea whom Malachi Martin is/was - his name is totally unfamiliar to me. Anyway, I prefer my sources NOT to be a “disgruntled” this or “Ex / former” that. This avoids skewed scholarship.

The source I referenced is a personal friend, now living in Florida- a Franciscan brother who lived and studied at the Vatican during the late 1980’s and early '90’s. Masonic membership within the Curia seems to strike him as nothing unusual. However, he finds the rumor that this faction is responsible for the death of Pope John Paul I absurd.

Consulting the most recent copy of* Lodges - Masonic* ( a directory of lodges worldwide ), I see that every village of any size in Italy and Sicily has a lodge listed. Rome itself has many. Freemasonry is deeply woven into the fabric of Italian life. I am most curious to trace the rumor that John XXIII was a Mason - or where this rumor began- and why. That would probably be a very difficult one to prove. At this point, I treat it as totally unsubstantiated hearsay…

www.masonicinfo.com/anticatholic.htm

December 9 + St. Juan Diego +

 

[St.James]

Catholicism is founded in the social Kingship of Christ, the philosophy that Christ is the highest authority in all matters.

Freemasonry is a mishmash of Egyptian mystery religions, Gnostic heresies, and Kabballah, all of which are condemned by the Catholic Church.

Freemasonry and Catholicism are completely incompatible. This would be self evident even in the absence of the numerous papal bulls which address the topic.

This is a simple matter.

To answer the question about Freemasonry not being warned about, unfortunately it’s not, even though it should be. This is one issue in a long list including sexual predator priests that is not being handled effectively by church officials. But this in no way makes these things any more acceptable. Church teachings on these matters is clear.