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hawkeye
Guest
The charity work is a cover to disguise their evil plan, don’t be deceived.
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Donald_Ramsey
Guest
Just my (name removed by moderator)ut, I used to have MORALS AND DOGMA by Albert Pike, one-time head of Scottish Rite Freemasonry, and in that book, Pike explicitly states that the Masons worship LUCIFER, and he makes it clear that he means yes, the Devil. So no, Masonry and Catholicism can never come to a real rapproachment.
Donald
Donald
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
Donald Ramsey:
ONE OF THE FEW PIECES OF TRUTH BY AL.
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jamesclaude
Guest
The artificial jump in membership numbers experienced during and immediately after World War II is leveling out. Metropolitan lodges operated around the clock in order to initiate sons and grandsons who might not be coming back from a a very intense war. President Harry Truman ( Past Grand Master of Missouri ) appeared in a film produced for soldiers related to Masons - urging them to seek out Masons in the trenches for assistance. Those numbers will never be seen again in our lifetimes due to the unusual cicumstance of that worldwide war.
Fortunately, the 6 lodges in & around Austin, Texas are experiencing phenomenal growth - mostly younger men in their 20’s and 30’s. I have personally sponsored three Roman Catholic members ( Fact: we are not allowed to “recruit” or ask anyone to join the fraternity).
It would be unwise to think that freemasonry- the oldest fraternity in the world- is down for the count quite yet…
Reading many of these postings ever reminds me of the 5 blind men - touching, feeling, listening to an elephant - then attempting to accurately describe what they percieve an elephant to be.
The zealot will call anything other than his path “from the devil” and urge the people to shun and run. Frankly, I’ve never been around anyone using that type of rhetoric with whom I might enjoy having a beer after work. Darkness employs fear tactics.
The biggest “secret” of our gentle craft is: we take good men and make them better. Christian men, Muslim men, Jewish men, Buddhist men - any man who is of good character and believes in a higher power. The primary purpose of a Masonic Lodge is to make new masons. Not quite the stuff of a Dan Brown novel, is it?
The degrees are intended as lessons for life - not for status or power. Our oaths are symbolic statements of focus and purpose- and in each of the 1st through 3rd degree oaths each candidate clearly states that what is his doing will not interefere with his duty to himself, his God or his country.
Why so much controversy regarding Masonry? Our heritage is to oppose tyranny in ANY form - whether it be state, church or dictator. Stalin and Hitler both immediately eradicated the freemasons - they were the first guests in the concentration camps and gulags. It’s a particular honor to be included in the oft-used phrase by Dr. Goebbels at Nazi rallies: “Jews and Freemasons” .
Many of the leaders of the American Revolution were masons - Washington, Franklin, LaFayette, and Paul Revere. At the Alamo were Travis, Crockett and Bowie - standing up to a murderous Santa Ana. The fraternity has doubled membership in the past decade under the nose of Communist Fidel Castro in Cuba - not yielding to the yoke of oppression on that island country. It grows in former Eastern Bloc countries, especially in Romania, Bulgaria and Russia.
We do not wish to be in competition with any church or denomination - I’ve never seen a single brother in my lodge waver from his particular religious beliefs - most grow stronger in faith due to the lessons taught by the lodge. ( I was never particularly interested in reading the Bible until my lodge kept presenting Bibles to new members and stressing how important it is to read and follow its precepts).
So - go ahead and see a devil or plot behind every stone and shrub if you will. Making up what you merely imagine freemasonry to be is a disservice to the greater collective knowledge and is the hallmark of ignorance.
James
Some sources: www.masonicinfo.com www.srmason-sj.org
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jamesclaude
Guest
Perhaps masons were primarily Roman Catholic Christians when they were actually building the great cathedrals of Europe as operative masons. After all - they met in the cathedrals’ chapter houses, and everyone was Catholic in the cathedral building age.I think it is a grey area.
The freemasons (of today, in Amercia) are not an “evil” group. They are Chrisitian, just not Catholic.
Lilder
In todays craft masonry ( speculative, i.e. *using the symbols of building *in our ritual ), we are not a Christian organization *any more than are the Lions, Kiwanis or Optimist Clubs. *
When Rudyard Kipling was initiated into the lodge in Lahore,India (now Pakistan), there were seven different books of faith upon the altar - seven faiths were represented by members in the room.
As my lodge is mostly composed of Protestant and Roman Catholic Christians, we have the Bible open our altar when the lodge is open for work. A Muslim from Morocco recently joined, and a copy of the Koran joined the Bible on the altar during his initiation as a courtesy to his particular beliefs. The Torah has been used whenever Jews are initiated.
The York Rite of Freemasonry has Christian-only requirements for membership in the Knights Templar, but freemasonry in general is not a Christian organization, nor does it claim to be.
We’re NOT a church or religion, folks - we’re a men’s fraternity. It’s a failure of logic to compare the Masons with the Church, and doing so causes major gaps of truth.
Broad , seemingly authoritative misstatements regarding Masonry abound in this forum - sometimes ( not you, lilder! http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif ) loaded with ill will and venom - with as much credibility as you would find in the National Inquirer…
a good source: www.masonicinfo.com
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SDA2RC
Guest
Donald Ramsey:
Donald,
First, if you had the book Morals and Dogma, then I am sure you have read it’s introduction, which states in part,
"Every one is entirely free to reject and dissent from whatsoever herein may seem to him to be untrue or unsound. It is only required of him that he shall weigh what is taught, and give it fair hearing and unprejudiced judgment. [Morals and Dogma, preface, p. iv.]
Furthermore, if you gather 100 masons in a room and ask each of them to raise their hands if they have read Morals and Dogma, I would suggest that less than 10 would raise their hand. If you then asked of those who read it, how many of them thought it was written as an authoratative book on what mason’s believe or should believe, NONE of them would raise their hands.
Finally, I have read it, and Pike certainly never claims that Masons worship or should worship Lucifer. In fact, Pike States:
“Masonry is not a religion. He who makes of it a religious belief, falsifies and denaturalizes it.” Albert Pike (1809-1891); "Morals and Dogma (p. 161
If I could make a suggestion, I would suggest you go to: masonicinfo.com/lucifer.htm which discusses in brief your claim of Pikes Luciferian doctrines.
Peace…
Brandon
Donald
Donald,
First, if you had the book Morals and Dogma, then I am sure you have read it’s introduction, which states in part,
"Every one is entirely free to reject and dissent from whatsoever herein may seem to him to be untrue or unsound. It is only required of him that he shall weigh what is taught, and give it fair hearing and unprejudiced judgment. [Morals and Dogma, preface, p. iv.]
Furthermore, if you gather 100 masons in a room and ask each of them to raise their hands if they have read Morals and Dogma, I would suggest that less than 10 would raise their hand. If you then asked of those who read it, how many of them thought it was written as an authoratative book on what mason’s believe or should believe, NONE of them would raise their hands.
Finally, I have read it, and Pike certainly never claims that Masons worship or should worship Lucifer. In fact, Pike States:
“Masonry is not a religion. He who makes of it a religious belief, falsifies and denaturalizes it.” Albert Pike (1809-1891); "Morals and Dogma (p. 161
If I could make a suggestion, I would suggest you go to: masonicinfo.com/lucifer.htm which discusses in brief your claim of Pikes Luciferian doctrines.
Peace…
Brandon
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puzzleannie
Guest
The Dead Bishop:
please do not make accusations against individuals and the hierarchy without reliable sources and attributions. there is no place for slander on these boardsBecause… to put it in plain and simple english… many of the Church’s prelates ( Cardinals, Archbishops, priests… etc. ) ARE Freemasons… !!
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puzzleannie
Guest
Sir Knight:
do not pass on baseless rumors as fact, and do not make specifiic accusations against individuals without reliable proofe and resources to back it up, that is slander and libel, and unworthy of anyone participating in the forums.The scary thing is that many of our current leaders are also Masons and there are UNCONFIRMED rumors that Pope John 23rd MIGHT have also been a mason.
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
I think its great you have the bible open,but the TRUTH is MASONS do not believe there is truth in it. For they accept Lucifer as the supreme God,but reject Jesus Christ. To reject Christ is to be ANTICHRIST.James , you cannot serve two masters, you will love one and hate the other. In the name of Jesus Christ come out of this boundage.FOR YOU ARE BEING DECIEVED BY SATAN. Ill keep you in my prayers that God will show you the light,for Jesus Christ is the Only Way,Truth and the Life. God Bless.
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jamesclaude
Guest
And how am I surprised by your response ? I would have been disappointed otherwise…it’s a regular litany under this topic.
There is something to be said for persistence and predictability however - even when it’s tiresome, bigoted and uninformed.
I’ve read Albert Pike’s Morals and Dogma twice, ( Klausen’s Commentary on Morals and Dogma, also ) - Pike’s opinions are his own.
All this nonsense about “lower-degree” Masons being “deceived” is utter horse hockey. Freemasons are not “excommunicated” or reprimanded by their leaders for having their own minds and opinions regarding what another brother has said or written.
It is an insult to be told that Masonic membership “cancels out” my relationship with Jesus Christ.
It is a further slight to be prayed for - or blessed - by a moron. I ask that you keep your condescending prayers and blessings to yourself in regards to my “depraved situation”.
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SDA2RC
Guest
Funny… many fundementalists make similiar statements about Catholics!!
So far, i have not met one Catholic that accepts Satan and rejects Christ. Likewise, I have not met one Mason who accepts Lucifer as their supreme God, but rejects Christ. If you have met one that rejects Christ and accepts Satan, I would really like to know to what lodge he belongs and his name.
Brandon
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cestusdei
Guest
DECLARATION ON MASONIC ASSOCIATIONS
Issued by the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith on November 26, 1983.
It has been asked whether there has been any change in the Church’s decision in regard to Masonic associations since the new Code of Canon Law does not mention them expressly, unlike the previous Code.
This Sacred Congregation is in a position to reply that this circumstance is due to an editorial criterion which was followed also in the case of other associations likewise unmentioned inasmuch as they are contained in wider categories.
Therefore the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic associations remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.
It is not within the competence of local ecclesiastical authorities to give a judgment on the nature of Masonic associations which would imply a derogation from what has been decided above, and this in line with the Declaration of this Sacred Congregation issued on 17 February 1981 (cf. AAS 73 [1981] pp. 240-241).
In an audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect, the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II approved and ordered the publication of this Declaration which had been decided in an ordinary meeting of this Sacred Congregation.
Rome, from the Office of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, 26 November 1983.
JOSEPH Card. RATZINGER
Prefect
Secretary
Issued by the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith on November 26, 1983.
It has been asked whether there has been any change in the Church’s decision in regard to Masonic associations since the new Code of Canon Law does not mention them expressly, unlike the previous Code.
This Sacred Congregation is in a position to reply that this circumstance is due to an editorial criterion which was followed also in the case of other associations likewise unmentioned inasmuch as they are contained in wider categories.
Therefore the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic associations remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.
It is not within the competence of local ecclesiastical authorities to give a judgment on the nature of Masonic associations which would imply a derogation from what has been decided above, and this in line with the Declaration of this Sacred Congregation issued on 17 February 1981 (cf. AAS 73 [1981] pp. 240-241).
In an audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect, the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II approved and ordered the publication of this Declaration which had been decided in an ordinary meeting of this Sacred Congregation.
Rome, from the Office of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, 26 November 1983.
JOSEPH Card. RATZINGER
Prefect
- Fr. JEROME HAMER, O.P.
Secretary
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jamesclaude
Guest
I have a copy of this document on my desk, have read it twice, fully comprehend it, am not deceived by Lucifer to believe otherwise ( that one’s for YOU, Spokenword! http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif ), and am quite clear as to what it conveys.
Obviously, if you’ve read my previous postings, this stand is not what I’d like it to be - and that’s a loss for good Roman Catholic men.
As I promised under the National Treasure ( the movie ) “Watercooler thread”, I DID contact the Diocese of Austin for the official church position. Father Harry Dean graciously returned my phone call and provided me with the 1981 Declaration On Masonic Associations via email.
He also provided me with the diocese’s commentary on it, which I feel is much more polite and civil than that of my brother in Christ Cardinal Ratzinger. While acknowleding that local church authorities may not allow exemptions whatsoever, it is a kinder explanation and may be viewed at:
www.austindiocese.org/seekers/law_gen.htm
My new project is to research the good Cardinal’s background, philosophies and reasons for being such a fuddy-duddy.
He obviously has his reasons for being suspicious about freemasonry, and I need to know WHY. My Vatican source has informed me that at least 1/3 of the Curia belong to the fraternity, so it could be a political thing - who knows ?
I may change my idea about him being a fuddy-duddy and become more enlightened - you’ll be the first to hear ! I’m not even sure if he is still alive, but there must be plenty of material from one who issues these declarations such as these…
“Good manners are the lubrication of the wheels of society”
- jamesclaude
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
My dear friend you are not insulting me you are insulting Jesus Christ.Your words of love are fitting to your master.Like I said you cannot serve two masters for you will love one and hate the other YOU CANNOT BE A CHRISTIAN AND A MASON AT THE SAME TIME…God Bless you anyways.
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
What you are reading has no basis on what I say for I am not catholic,But that is besides the point. I know Gods TRUTH and as a brother I dont want to see you being decieved. I care about you and I dont want to see you go down the road of distruction.
God Bless.
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jamesclaude
Guest
" Yadda yadda yadda … "My dear friend you are not insulting me you are insulting Jesus Christ.Your words of love are fitting to your master.Like I said you cannot serve two masters for you will love one and hate the other YOU CANNOT BE A CHRISTIAN AND A MASON AT THE SAME TIME…God Bless you anyways.
- Jerry Seinfeld, infidel Jew , in all likelihood serving the “Dark Master”, too -
- pictures Spokenword in a Darth Vader helmet with cross rotating on top of it *
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
jamesclaude said:
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wabrams
Guest
jamesclaude said:
Oh man! I needed that on such a crappy Monday!
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jamesclaude
Guest
If you’re not a Roman Catholic, or what many consider to be a deluded pseudo / semi / sorta catholic ( Episcopalian ) like poor me, then WHAT ARE YA ???So you want me to watch you burn from the third floor window while I sit on the fire hydrant, singing YADA YADA YADA…,HELP YOURSELF BROTHER. Let Me know when to turn the water on.
And what’s up with the devil and flames obsession ?
Being from East Texas ( where if you can THINK of it, someone’s got a church for it ) , I’m a bit curious…
Curiosity killed the cat,
James ( a.k.a. " Toast" ) P.S. Will there REALLY be a Sears waterhose there for you to decide to use on me ???
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SPOKENWORD
Guest
Im just a DA DA DA blowing in the wind waiting for you to tell me to turn on the waterhose. By the way I dont use Sears brand for they are not reliable. The Hose I use throws out living water[Word of God]. The TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE.
- Status