Freemasonry

[jamesclaude]

SPOKENWORD:

Hi James, Like you that southern baptist pastor has been decieved and was not very committed to Christ.You have to stop coming up with reasons to stay in. Very simple you need to get out and renounce your affilation with masons. Like I said you cannot serve two masters.You will love one and hate the other.If both of you continue on you will join flamesburn in your southern quest.

I very much doubt this. It is you who have been brainwashed, and are projecting this much-cherished way of thinking.

You sound like a Chick Tract - the showmanship and theatrics *override any potential logic or reason. *

www.masonicinfo.com/chick.htm

( Jack Chick also berates Catholicism with equal gusto )

God gave us WONDERFUL brains to use for discernment and logical endeavors…

I’m sure that you were somehow deeply indoctrinated in this errant way of thinking by someone else -* who also sees a devil hiding behind every bush. *

When I think of Masons: Father Francisco Calvo ( founder of Freemasonry in Costa Rica in 1865 ) , Dr. Norman Vincent Peale ( author: The Power of Positive Thinking), United Methodist Bishops Hiram Boaz and John Wesley Lord , W.T. Conner, Professor of Theology at** Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary** ( from 1910 to 1949 ), Dr. Abner McCall, longtime President of Baylor University , Geoffrey Fisher ( 99th Archbishop of Canterbury ) Dr. George Truett ( pastor of 1st Baptist Church, Dallas TX (1897-1944), John Ward, 1st Episcopal Bishop of Missouri - the list goes on and on - do you think that all of these pillars of the faith were somehow “deluded, bamboozled and befuddled” ?

I think not.

A helpful site that explains this ongoing “satanic” compulsion of Masonic detractors is:

www.masonicinfo.com/satanism.htm

Onward - through the fog…

.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

God gave us WONDERFUL brains to use for discernment and logical use.=========================================================================================== True,and satan comes in and fogs them with smoke screens. Satan is a lier,a deciever and a thief… Who are you going to serve James? Its up to you.

 

[larryo]

One cannot be both a Mason and a Catholic. Freemasonry was founded as a movement to deliberately undermine the Catholic Church. Masons, in their absurd, childish rituals take oaths that are diametrically opposed to Catholic teaching. It’s true that most American Masonic organizations appear to be generally harmless and that some actually do good, such as the Shriners with their hospitals, but Catholics would be better advised to join Catholic organizations, like the Knights of Columbus. If you go back in history to the 18th century, you will see that Freemasons were in the forefront of the French Revolution and just about every European revolution since. Protestantism ultimately led to Freemasonry which, in turn, mutated into various revolutionary movements, including Bolshevism and Communism. I highly recommend the book, Behind the Lodge Door.

 

[Stephen-Maguire]

You cannot be a freemason and a Catholic, it’s is forbidden to be in it.

It is underhand, seceretly trying to undermine the foundation of the Church by seeking to portray itself as worshipping God.

You can argue until your blue in the face, the Church forbids Catholics to be a member of it, and that’s the long, short, and tall of it.​

HUMANUM GENUS
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII
ON FREEMASONRY

1. For as soon as the constitution and the spirit of the masonic sect were clearly discovered by manifest signs of its actions, by the investigation of its causes, by publication of its laws, and of its rites and commentaries, with the addition often of the personal testimony of those who were in the secret, this apostolic see denounced the sect of the Freemasons, and publicly declared its constitution, as contrary to law and right, to be pernicious no Less to Christiandom than to the State; and it forbade any one to enter the society

30 .Whatever the future may be, in this grave and widespread evil it is Our duty, venerable brethren, to endeavour to find a remedy. And because We know that Our best and firmest hope of a remedy is in the power of that divine religion which the Freemasons hate in proportion to their fear of it, We think it to be of chief importance to call that most saving power to Our aid against the common enemy. Therefore, whatsoever the Roman Pontiffs Our predecessors have decreed for the purpose of opposing the undertakings and endeavours of the masonic sect, and whatsoever they have enacted to enter or withdraw men from societies of this kind, We ratify and confirm it all by our apostolic authority: and trusting greatly to the good will of Christians, We pray and beseech each one, for the sake of his eternal salvation, to be most conscientiously careful not in the least to depart from what the apostolic see has commanded in this matter.

1. We pray and beseech you, venerable brethren, to join your efforts with Ours, and earnestly to strive for the extirpation of this foul plague, which is creeping through the veins of the body politic. You have to defend the glory of God and the salvation of your neighbour; and with the object of your strife before you, neither courage nor strength will be wanting. It will be for your prudence to judge by what means you can best overcome the difficulties and obstacles you meet with. But, as it befits the authority of Our office that We Ourselves should point out some suitable way of proceeding, We wish it to be your rule first of all to tear away the mask from Freemasonry, and to let it be seen as it really is; and by sermons and pastoral letters to instruct the people as to the artifices used by societies of this kind in seducing men and enticing them into their ranks, and as to the depravity of their opinions and the wickedness of their acts. As Our predecessors have many times repeated, let no man think that he may for any reason whatsoever join the masonic sect, if he values his Catholic name and his eternal salvation as he ought to value them. Let no one be deceived by a pretense of honesty. It may seem to some that Freemasons demand nothing that is openly contrary to religion and morality; but, as the whole principle and object of the sect lies in what is vicious and criminal, to join with these men or in any way to help them cannot be lawful.

vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_18840420_humanum-genus_en.html

 

[jamesclaude]

larryo:

If you go back in history to the 18th century, you will see that Freemasons were in the forefront of the French Revolution and just about every European revolution since. Protestantism ultimately led to Freemasonry which, in turn, mutated into various revolutionary movements, including Bolshevism and Communism. I highly recommend the book, *Behind the Lodge Door. *

And revolutions for human freedoms are “bad” ? You’re obviously enjoying many of the benefits of past revolutions and Constitutional government.

1.) You (conveniently) omitted the American Revolution. George Washington, Ben Franklin, John Hancock, Paul Revere, LaFayette - Masons all - risking their necks for freedom.

2.) Freemasonry was around long before the Protestant Reformation - not as it exists today, but in operative (cathedral building) and ceremonial form.

3.) Stalin shut down Freemasonry and threw the Masons into the gulags - Freemasonry has always opposed tyranny - especially that of Communism.

4.)** * Behind the Lodge Door*** - by Paul A. Fisher is a propoganda piece by an avowed anti-Mason.

An "expose’ " is right up there with the National Enquirer credibility-wise: and makes LOTS of money !

www.masonicinfo.com/tactics.htm

Always know the agenda / slant of the author BEFORE you read his / her book - this book is definitely a smear job of the very worst sort.

You will also find anti-Masons hiding behind the skirts of the Catholic Church - attempting to perpetuate ill-will and mutual animosity in a most un-Christlike manner.

Why ? I dunno.

IS Freemasonry anti-Catholic ?

See for yourself: www.masonicinfo.com/anticatholic.htm

What do Freemasons think about the Knights of Columbus ?

See for yourself: www.masonicinfo.com/KofC.htm

It amazes me how some in this forum continually try to make trouble and twist truth - as if they’re being “loyal” to the Church.

It’s clear that those who fanatically oppose Freemasonry ( but not the Kiwanis or Elks ! ) will stoop to use fraud as a tool - while hiding behind the skirts of a “cause” or yes, even the Holy Church.

A prime example of this can be viewed at:

www.masonicinfo.com/fraud.htm

It’s usually a blend of anti-semitism, somehow justified or “hidden” behind “righteousness”.

Hitler and Goebbels often combined “Jews and Freemasons” in the same breath - as enemies of the people. I view that distinction as an honor.

Where all of this tiresome nonsense ultimately gets us is a curiosity to me. But obviously - some folks get off on it.

.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

jamesclaude:

Where all of this tiresome nonsense ultimately gets us is a curiosity to me. But obviously - some folks get off on it.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi James, To you its nonsense because you have been blinded to the truth. There is no way a true christian can be a member of masonry.Im not here to pick on you or tear you down.Im here to show you Gods truth.You do not want to let go because you cannot. Satan has you under his power. But im here to bring you good news. Do you want to be set free? Then get down on your knees before God and repent for your actions.Renounce this bondage in Jesus name.If you do not turn away you are risking the lose of your salvation,which is for eternity. Am I clear in what Im saying to you.? Only through the power of the Holy Spirit will you be set free.Think about what Im saying, I care about you or I would not be wasting my time. Every soul belongs to God and I will do my best to help you see the light. God Bless

 

[jamesclaude]

Stephen-Maguire:

You cannot be a freemason and a Catholic, it’s is forbidden to be in it.

It is underhand, seceretly trying to undermine the foundation of the Church by seeking to portray itself as worshipping God.

You can argue until your blue in the face, the Church forbids Catholics to be a member of it, and that’s the long, short, and tall of it.​

HUMANUM GENUS
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII
ON FREEMASONRY

1. For as soon as the constitution and the spirit of the masonic sect were clearly discovered by manifest signs of its actions, by the investigation of its causes, by publication of its laws, and of its rites and commentaries, with the addition often of the personal testimony of those who were in the secret, this apostolic see denounced the sect of the Freemasons, and publicly declared its constitution, as contrary to law and right, to be pernicious no Less to Christiandom than to the State; and it forbade any one to enter the society

30 .Whatever the future may be, in this grave and widespread evil it is Our duty, venerable brethren, to endeavour to find a remedy. And because We know that Our best and firmest hope of a remedy is in the power of that divine religion which the Freemasons hate in proportion to their fear of it, We think it to be of chief importance to call that most saving power to Our aid against the common enemy. Therefore, whatsoever the Roman Pontiffs Our predecessors have decreed for the purpose of opposing the undertakings and endeavours of the masonic sect, and whatsoever they have enacted to enter or withdraw men from societies of this kind, We ratify and confirm it all by our apostolic authority: and trusting greatly to the good will of Christians, We pray and beseech each one, for the sake of his eternal salvation, to be most conscientiously careful not in the least to depart from what the apostolic see has commanded in this matter.

1. We pray and beseech you, venerable brethren, to join your efforts with Ours, and earnestly to strive for the extirpation of this foul plague, which is creeping through the veins of the body politic. You have to defend the glory of God and the salvation of your neighbour; and with the object of your strife before you, neither courage nor strength will be wanting. It will be for your prudence to judge by what means you can best overcome the difficulties and obstacles you meet with. But, as it befits the authority of Our office that We Ourselves should point out some suitable way of proceeding, We wish it to be your rule first of all to tear away the mask from Freemasonry, and to let it be seen as it really is; and by sermons and pastoral letters to instruct the people as to the artifices used by societies of this kind in seducing men and enticing them into their ranks,

vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_18840420_humanum-genus_en.html

This was written by Pope Leo XIII in 1884.

A more current official Church Statement would be that of Cardinal Ratzinger in 1984 - not 1884. The local diocese cheerfully faxed a copy of it to me, after a priest returned my call to explain the current Church position.

In 1884 feelings ran high between church leaders and certain individual masons who were definitely anti-catholic.

As a fraternity, we take NO official view of ANY particular religion -the Roman Catholic Church included.

Any problems with Freemasonry and religious organizations are solely problems of the non-masons.

If you wish to continue the heated mess that was 1884, then carry on .

We don’t discuss it in lodge, and I’ve never heard any anti-catholic comments or sentiment in any Texas lodge.

I even promised Cestusdei (a priest who belongs to this forum) that I would gladly inform any Roman Catholic man seeking Masonic membership about his church’s official position against joining the lodge. It’s only fair. Besides, Freemasons are not in the “numbers” game, or any “competition”.

Masons are not allowed to recruit nor “entice” ANYone to join.

Perhaps you can measure the good of Freemasonry by seeing photos of those who have hated it most:

[www.masonicinfo.com/famousanti.htm]("Famous" Anti-Masons)

For the faithful - or faint of heart : I promise that you won’t see a single Pope or saint of the Church on that site…

.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

jamesclaude:

If you wish to continue the heated mess that was 1884, then carry on . : I promise that you won’t see a single Pope or saint of the Church on that site…​

Hi James ,The message of the Gospel does not change. It is the same today,yesterday and tommorrow.The Lord is telling you to come out, yet you refuse and continue to walk in blindness.Dont let satan steal your salvation. Jesus is comming soon. Dont be left behind. God Bless.

 

[jamesclaude]

SPOKENWORD:

jamesclaude:

Hi James ,The message of the Gospel does not change. It is the same today,yesterday and tommorrow.The Lord is telling you to come out, yet you refuse and continue to walk in blindness.Dont let satan steal your salvation. Jesus is comming soon. Dont be left behind. God Bless.

Spoken - we’ve been 'round and 'round on this matter - what’s not “changing” is ***your ***mind.

Masons seek Light, not darkness.

Put all the frowny faces and “poor misled / deluded Mason” prayers on here that you wish - it’s a waste of keystrokes, I assure you.

I do not ask you to change whatever faith it is you follow.

Why you’re even on a Catholic forum baffles me, being that you’re not Catholic and seem to be opposed to what most on here believe and say. ( e.g. - I just read your comments on the Real Presence )

I’m not saying that you’re not welcome ( heck, I’m Anglican - “a small c catholic” ), but it make me wonder nonetheless.

I love you as a brother in Jesus Christ- no matter what you believe - I do not take what you say about me personally whatsoever.

Please pray for me, and I shall pray for you…

Traveling from West to East - to that undiscovered Land,

• James, C.B.S.

" Is thine own heart right as my heart is with thine ? It is enough - I give thee the right hand of fellowship." - John Wesley

Spokenword is like many who have “religious objections” to membership in the oldest fraternity in the world: Freemasonry.

Confusing Masonry with Mormons, Lucifer, being anti-Catholic, being a satanic cult, etc - whew - misinformation and superstition run rampant !

It’s often like the 5 blind Hindus - attempting to describe what they** think** an elephant is - by touching, hearing, smelling it - but not really seeing the entire creature that is an elephant.

( One ends up thinking that an elephant is a snake because all he has encountered is the elephant’s trunk ).

What on earth do the Masons think about this ? Please see:

www.masonicinfo.com/religious_objections.htm

.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

jamesclaude:

Spoken - we’ve been 'round and 'round on this matter - what’s not “changing” is ***your ***mind.

Masons seek Light, not darkness.
=================================================================================================Hi James, Im standing firm in the Lord. Can you say the same? Masons seek light? Really, There is no light without Jesus Christ.Your organization does not recognize Jesus Christ because they cannot.Only those who have the spirit of God can say Jesus is Lord. You claim to seek light but the truth is you are seeking a false light.You claim to have an open bible on the alter but the truth is God is not known for masons for they do not believe Jesus is Lord.You are seeking light are you? My friend the light that masons are following through masonry will bring them into the light and fires of hell. Its not me that needs to change its you my friend. God Bless

 

[jamesclaude]

SPOKENWORD:

jamesclaude:

Your organization does not recognize Jesus Christ because they cannot.Only those who have the spirit of God can say Jesus is Lord.

The Lions Club does not recognize Jesus Christ - neither do Kiwanis, Civitan, Optimists International, Elks or Jaycees. ** Read their creeds.**

Are THEY gonna burn, too ? Will you burn if you join the local historical society or garden club - if they don’t have Jesus Christ in their mission statements ?

Individuals within those groups may recognize Jesus Christ as savior, but they may also be Buddhists, Moslems or the non-churched. Mingling does not condemn them to hellfire and damnation.

Fraternal organizations seek to bring men of ALL faiths together to work for the common good.

You are missing the point entirely. Sharpen up your ecumenical and social skills - it’s a deep and narrow rut you’re in, my brother - a very narrow view of what Christianity is all about…
**
**
.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

The Lions Club does not recognize Jesus Christ - neither do Kiwanis, Civitan, Optimists International, Elks or Jaycees. ** Read their creeds.**

Are THEY gonna burn, too ? Will you burn if you join the local historical society or garden club - if they don’t have Jesus Christ in their mission statements ?

Individuals within those groups may recognize Jesus Christ as savior, but they may also be Buddhists, Moslems or the non-churched. Mingling does not condemn them to hellfire and damnation.

Fraternal organizations seek to bring men of ALL faiths together to work for the common good.

You are missing the point entirely. Sharpen up your ecumenical and social skills - it’s a deep and narrow rut you’re in, my brother - a very narrow view of what Christianity is all about…
**
**
.

James oh James,Why are you trying to compare Masonry to Lions club,ect.They dont claim to be serving different Gods,and be a religious organinazation[yet they deny it is] Every Masonic temple is a temple of religion,and its teachings are insructed in religion.Masonry conceals its truths and is very deceptive. God Bless

 

[SPOKENWORD]

The Lions Club does not recognize Jesus Christ - neither do Kiwanis, Civitan, Optimists International, Elks or Jaycees. ** Read their creeds.**

Are THEY gonna burn, too ? Will you burn if you join the local historical society or garden club - if they don’t have Jesus Christ in their mission statements ?

Individuals within those groups may recognize Jesus Christ as savior, but they may also be Buddhists, Moslems or the non-churched. Mingling does not condemn them to hellfire and damnation.

Fraternal organizations seek to bring men of ALL faiths together to work for the common good.

You are missing the point entirely. Sharpen up your ecumenical and social skills - it’s a deep and narrow rut you’re in, my brother - a very narrow view of what Christianity is all about…
**
**
.

James oh James,Why are you trying to compare Masonry to Lions club,ect.They dont claim to be serving different Gods,and be a religious organinazation[yet they deny it is] Every Masonic temple is a temple of religion,and its teachings are insructed in religion.Masonry conceals its truths and is very deceptive. God Bless

 

[Stephen-Maguire]

jamesclaude:

A more current official Church Statement would be that of Cardinal Ratzinger in 1984 - not 1884. The local diocese cheerfully faxed a copy of it to me, after a priest returned my call to explain the current Church position.

.

Jamesclaude, is this what your talking about ? medjugorjeusa.org/masonry.htm

Following the promulgation of the new Code, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the new Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, issued a new declaration: (1) the new Canon 1347 has the same essential import as the old Canon 2335, and the fact that the “Masonic sect” is no longer explicitly named is irrelevant. (2) the Church’s negative judgment on Masonry remains unchanged, because the Masonic principles are irreconcilable with the Church’s teaching (“earum principia semper iconcilabilia habita sunt cum Ecclesiae doctrina”) (3) Catholics who join the Masons are in the state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion. (4) no local ecclesiastical authority has competence to derogate from these judgments of the Sacred​

olrl.org/doctrine/vsmasons.shtml

 

[jamesclaude]

Stephen-Maguire:

Following the promulgation of the new Code, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the new Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, issued a new declaration: (1) the new Canon 1347 has the same essential import as the old Canon 2335, and the fact that the "Masonic sect" is no longer explicitly named is irrelevant. (2) the Church's negative judgment on Masonry remains unchanged, because the Masonic principles are irreconcilable with the Church's teaching ("earum principia semper iconcilabilia habita sunt cum Ecclesiae doctrina") (3) Catholics who join the Masons are in the state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion. (4) no local ecclesiastical authority has competence to derogate from these judgments of the Sacred

Dear Stephen:

You already know that I’m well-versed in regard to Cardinal Ratzinger’s document. The local Catholic Diocese kindly faxed a copy of it to me, and it remains in my files for future reference.

We’ve already discussed this topic in at least one other thread, so I’m assuming that you mention it purely as a rhetorical exercise.

It’s obvious that the timing of this document is close to the Archbishop Bugnini “scandal” in 1976 ( it was never proven that he was a Freemason - the Pope was told that the Archbishop was suspected of being a Mason - so he demoted the Archbishop trusting that advice) - and the Banco Ambrosiano / “P 2” affair in 1981.

www.masonicinfo.com/p2_lodge.htm

Human nature and political reality somehow tell me that these two items were fresh in Cardinal Ratzinger’s mind when this document was promulgated and issued to the faithful.

I am sorry that the good Cardinal thinks that the Masonic Fraternity is a “sect”.

Many wish to call Freemasonry everything that they** think** it to be - it borders on willful ignorance !

Merriam-Webster defines a sect as:

1. (a) a dissenting or schismatic religious body: especially one regarded as extreme or heretical. (b) a religious denomination.

The Masonic Fraternity is exactly that - a fraternity. NOT a religion, and certainly not in schism or heresy from a parent “church” or belief system. Whom would that “parent” possibly be ?

Neither are we a religious “denomination”. ( It would be ludicrous for Freemasonry to belong to the World Council of Churches ! ) We don’t fit the criteria for being a religion or a “church”.

www.masonicinfo.com/religion.htm

Every Catholic should be aware of the Church’s ban on Masonic membership -** I’ve never disagreed with that**. It is Roman Catholic Church law.

All that I’m suggesting ( Heaven forbid ! ) is that the Church and Freemasonry agree to disagree -** without** the animosity and mutual suspicions of the past.

Civil and peaceful co-existence -

Is that too much to ask ?

Both Church and Fraternity have been around for centuries - and will doubtless co-exist for many more…

.

 

[jamesclaude]

SPOKENWORD:

James oh James,Why are you trying to compare Masonry to Lions club,ect.They dont claim to be serving different Gods,and be a religious organinazation[yet they deny it is] Every Masonic temple is a temple of religion,and its teachings are insructed in religion.Masonry conceals its truths and is very deceptive. God Bless

Dear dear Spokenword:

You just won’t let go of Albert Pike, will ya ?

“Every Masonic temple is a temple of religion”, etc.

Albert Pike was a Confederate General and jurist - he wrote books describing his personal beliefs - over a CENTURY ago - in the flowery language of his times.

NO individual Mason speaks for the entire Fraternity - never has, never does - never will.

www.masonicinfo.com/pike.htm

What is a temple, anway ? Merriam-Webster (* NOT Albert Pike* ) tells us:

" a local lodge of any of various fraternal orders; *also: * the building housing it. A place devoted to a special purpose. "

We’re in the 21st Century, Spokenword -* not the 19th !*

Change that wall calendar and please catch up, umkay ?

In Christ,

• James

.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

jamesclaude:

Dear dear Spokenword:

You just won’t let go of Albert Pike, will ya ?

“Every Masonic temple is a temple of religion”, etc.

Albert Pike was a Confederate General and jurist - he wrote books describing his personal beliefs - over a CENTURY ago - in the flowery language of his times.

NO individual Mason speaks for the entire Fraternity - never has, never does - never will.

www.masonicinfo.com/pike.htm

What is a temple, anway ? Merriam-Webster (* NOT Albert Pike* ) tells us:

" a local lodge of any of various fraternal orders; *also: * the building housing it. A place devoted to a special purpose. "

We’re in the 21st Century, Spokenword -* not the 19th !*

Change that wall calendar and please catch up, umkay ?

In Christ,

• James

.

Hi James, So me using the word temple changes anything? I dont think so. I can see you have learned obidience well. Who and what is LUCIFER to you? You can only serve ONE GOD. Choose Jesus or Lucifer. Renounce Jesus if you must,but do not stand in the assemblies of christians and mock Him.You are grieving the Holy Spirit. I pray you will reconsider and choose Jesus and be set free from this demonic bondage. If we confess our sins,He is faithful and just to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousess. God Bless.

 

[flameburns623]

SPOKENWORD:

Hi James, So me using the word temple changes anything? I dont think so. I can see you have learned obidience well. Who and what is LUCIFER to you? You can only serve ONE GOD. Choose Jesus or Lucifer. Renounce Jesus if you must,but do not stand in the assemblies of christians and mock Him.You are grieving the Holy Spirit. I pray you will reconsider and choose Jesus and be set free from this demonic bondage. If we confess our sins,He is faithful and just to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousess. God Bless.

‘Lucifer’ is the Latin name of the planet Venus–the Morning-star. The term ‘morning-star’ is applied once in the Hebrew scriptures to a pagan king widely regarded as being an ‘archetype’ or symbol of Satan, the Devil. In this once passage only–following the Latin Vulgate–the translators of the King James Bible transliterated the Latin word for ‘morning-star’ to ‘Lucifer’. In all other places where the phrase ‘morning-star’ appears, it refers to Jesus Christ and is translated as ‘morning-star’ or sometimes as ‘day-spring’. The important thing to realize is that the same Hebrew word (or Greek word, if we are referring to the Septuagint translation of Hebrew Scriptures) is used to make symbolic reference to Jesus and to Satan. And so–in the one authentic place where Albert Pike makes reference to Lucifer, he contrasts the ‘false Lucifer’ to the ‘true Lucifer’–the false ‘morning star’ (Satan) to the true 'morning-star (Christ).

Unfortunately, folks like to trot out numerous Taxil forgeries and interpolations as also emanating from Pike. I realize, Spokenword, that you have great difficulty absorbing information that does not fit your preconceived paradigm. You might wish to consider whether your doctor might not need to adjust your medication, since you seem unable to actually listen to any other point of view in your current condition. I have conceded, and I think that Jamesclaude has likewise conceded, that the Roman Catholic Church forbids it’s membership from joining Masonic Lodges. We have indicated that we think this is wrong-headed for various reasons. You decline to engage us on the facts we raise but instead persist in indulging paranoid fantasies about the Lodge which make dialogue on the topic difficult or impossible–primarily the latter.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

‘Lucifer’ is the Latin name of the planet Venus–the Morning-star. The term ‘morning-star’ is applied once in the Hebrew scriptures to a pagan king widely regarded as being an ‘archetype’ or symbol of Satan, the Devil. In this once passage only–following the Latin Vulgate–the translators of the King James Bible transliterated the Latin word for ‘morning-star’ to ‘Lucifer’. In all other places where the phrase ‘morning-star’ appears, it refers to Jesus Christ and is translated as ‘morning-star’ or sometimes as ‘day-spring’. The important thing to realize is that the same Hebrew word (or Greek word, if we are referring to the Septuagint translation of Hebrew Scriptures) is used to make symbolic reference to Jesus and to Satan. And so–in the one authentic place where Albert Pike makes reference to Lucifer, he contrasts the ‘false Lucifer’ to the ‘true Lucifer’–the false ‘morning star’ (Satan) to the true 'morning-star (Christ).

Unfortunately, folks like to trot out numerous Taxil forgeries and interpolations as also emanating from Pike. I realize, Spokenword, that you have great difficulty absorbing information that does not fit your preconceived paradigm. You might wish to consider whether your doctor might not need to adjust your medication, since you seem unable to actually listen to any other point of view in your current condition. I have conceded, and I think that Jamesclaude has likewise conceded, that the Roman Catholic Church forbids it’s membership from joining Masonic Lodges. We have indicated that we think this is wrong-headed for various reasons. You decline to engage us on the facts we raise but instead persist in indulging paranoid fantasies about the Lodge which make dialogue on the topic difficult or impossible–primarily the latter.

Hi Flames.Paranoid fantasies!!! I know sickness and diseases come from the devil. My friend you and James need DR. JESUS. He alone can deliver you two from this sickness.He also will correct your blindness that you are suffering from. Its not about Rcc fobidding membership. Its that you cannot be a christian and a mason at the same time.Renounce one or the other.Make your choice,for you cannot serve two masters. God Bless

 

[Stephen-Maguire]

jamesclaude:

Dear Stephen:

You already know that I’m well-versed in regard to Cardinal Ratzinger’s document. The local Catholic Diocese kindly faxed a copy of it to me, and it remains in my files for future reference.

We’ve already discussed this topic in at least one other thread, so I’m assuming that you mention it purely as a rhetorical exercise.

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Regardless of why I posted it, if non-Catholics want to join the masons then that is up to them.
I wouldn’t touch it with a bardge pole ! and if Catholics want to join them, it’s their choice also.
They’re antiChrist, everything is based on humanism, everything is lovely in the garden.
They say they aren’t a secret society, but even members don’t know what is going on in it half time, as bunch of secret socities within a secret society, not good.
If you ever get to level 33 you will have to renounce Jesus, some will come here denying that, well you don’t think they’re going to say it’s true.
I have never heard any seer true or false say anything good about the masons, and like I said up above, if anyone wants to join them, then thats their funeral.
It’s their soul that is at risk, you can’t have a foot in both camps, Jesus said" he that is not with me is against me" .