Frustration in being continuously told "its just a date"

[HopkinsReb]

I am

I am assuming Texas.

Mississippi, but I have lived in Texas. Good guess.

Anyhoo, about to board my spaceship.

 

[MarlboroMan]

and “incel” as a philisophy. The philosophy is hot garbage: entitlement, self-pity, and resentment all curdled into an awful concoction.

Not much different than feminism then. Ba-dum-tsh!

If by hyper-masculine “heat” you mean personal insults and sui-fuel

Pretty much, yeah.

Is Marlboro man for real?

You come across as a troll, mate. Please Stop trying to seek attention in negative ways.

Ahh, the old “argument from incredulity” fallacy. Always a nice go-to for any online forum. Very convincing too.

 

[Atreju]

There’s a difference between an argument from incredulity and just being incredulous.

 

[PetraG]

Dating protip for men: don’t focus on dating. When it’s your focus, your dating success inflate your ego and your failures are crushing.

Focus on being strong: strong in faith, strong in virtue, strong in love for your neighbors, strong in industriousness, strong physically. You’ll find that things work themselves out.

After falling into the trap of focusing on dating for years, with its accompanying highs and lows, I decided to stop dating until I finished grad school. Less than a month later, I was dating my wife. But she wasn’t my reason for happiness – I took up powerlifting around that time, was focused on my studies, and was trying to become a better man. So the relationship didn’t have the stress of my depending on it for my sense of self-esteem. It was just a piece of the puzzle. Don’t let it become the whole puzzle.

Let’s return to the problem the OP is having, which is not a dating life with “accompanying highs and lows,” but NO DATING LIFE AT ALL.

… I’m in my 30’s. I have asked more women than I can count on dates. Only one ever told me yes, and she stood me up. These are not weak women or women with incompatible goals. 2 of them are now married to friends of mine and nearly all of them remain in our rather strong Catholic young adult community. If its really just getting to know someone like I’ve been taught, then there isn’t much reason for them to be turning me down 100% of the time.

But not only do they say no, but half of them ended the friendship right there - they haven’t spoken to me since. One hasn’t spoken to me for the better part of 10 years, even after spending the last 4 years at the same parish and getting set up by the algorithm twice on the same dating website…

…My friends don’t tell me I’m doing anything wrong. So I’m reaching out to the internet. ANY insight would be loved, dearly, because I’m so very tired of this.

The poor guy just wants to have a one-on-one social outing with a member of the opposite sex. THAT’S IT.

You suggested: Focus on being strong: strong in faith, strong in virtue, strong in love for your neighbors, strong in industriousness, strong physically. You’ll find that things work themselves out.

He’s been there, done that. His spiritual directors told him so; this isn’t just the OP giving himself a pass.

Just to be the devil’s advocate (or maybe the OP’s advocate), what exactly does “You’ll find that things work themselves out” mean? That he shouldn’t want to go on a date? That he ought to expect that the Good Lord will drop a woman he will date and eventually marry if he does nothing different except to not “focus” on dating?

What does that mean? He shouldn’t let any women know he’d like to have an outing to get to know them better? How is that going to work this out? I’m not sure I buy that.

 

[Usagi]

Really loving shooting at those easy targets, aren’t you. Dollars to dimes says you’ve read three or four CNN articles about “incels” and never actually spent more than a few minutes on an acrual incel forum finding out how the majority of them actually think.

Oh, darling, you would lose that one. I am morbidly fascinated with those guys and have descended into the cesspool a number of times. They are actually worse than I initially thought.

 

[PetraG]

OP, maybe you need to buy tickets to something fun that a woman is likely to want to go to (like tickets to see Hello, Dolly! or The King and I or some musical) and just go around saying, “I have tickets to see this musical; do you know anybody who’d like to go?” When they say, “Do you mean, like, on a date?” you say, “No, I mean as in I have two tickets and don’t feel like going by myself. Sure, if it were a woman younger than my mom and old enough that I won’t gain the attention of a local DA, that would be a good thing, but honestly, but at this point I have two tickets and no one to go with me and I am not going to ask one of the guys I play basketball with. Do you see what I mean?”

Come to think of it, a friend of mine from high school did just that, and I went with him even though honestly he is like a brother to me. It was, well, kind of like a date. Not in the get-to-know you sense, because I’d known him since we were in first grade, but it was fun and even though I’d have not wanted to give him the “wrong idea” in high school, it really was “just a date.”

 

[PetraG]

Part of the reason I never went for Pickup is that I never really struggled getting girls to go out with me. Usually I can get a date by smiling, teasing her a bit, and then asking her out. And typically I can get a second date (though sometimes things just don’t work out.) I’m not currently ready for marriage so I try not to go too far beyond one or two dates, but I don’t really have any issue with women to where I would need to worry about learning all the PUA techniques.

Sorry, I think I got you mixed up with the OP, because you’re both have a bright green spot.
I’m pretty sure I don’t want to know what “PUA techniques” are, though. It sounds like treating people you’d like to date like conquests, frankly.

I have to admit, though, I’ve been married nearly 30 years and my husband and I both count it a blessing that even if we might consider re-marriage if one of us were left widowed and ran across the right person, we still never ever have to “date” again ever in our lives…that is, we never have to venture out among strangers or near strangers for the purpose of looking for someone of the opposite sex to socialize with.

 

[GospelOfMatthew]

I like the idea you present of offering ideas women would actually want to go to like a play or musical as you suggest.

My date offer is usually mass/rosary and then dinner. Figured it would be nice to have the religious setting to start it off. But usually this is a “yeah maybe some other time” or “I’m busy sorry.”

I think being able to identify what type of dates the women men are interested in would actually be interested in going to is very important.

 

[PetraG]

I like the idea you present of offering ideas women would actually want to go to like a play or musical as you suggest.

My date offer is usually mass/rosary and then dinner. Figured it would be nice to have the religious setting to start it off. But usually this is a “yeah maybe some other time” or “I’m busy sorry.”

I think being able to identify what type of dates the women men are interested in would actually be interested in going to is very important.

There are many women who would have a hard time turning down Cavalia, LOL.

 

[MarlboroMan]

I like the idea you present of offering ideas women would actually want to go to like a play or musical as you suggest.

Mmm… It’s not a terrible idea, but it has it’s own problems. For one, most girls don’t expect or really even want a guy to actually like going to musicals. Also, the whole “buy the tickets and then offer one of them” is just not a good strategy. One, it is super obvious and then just makes it look like you aren’t brave enough to straight ask her out, and two, it can lead to a total waste of money if she doesn’t say yes. A better idea is to find something that isn’t classically considered “girly” but can be fun for both. For winter maybe try ice-skating or see if there are any festivals or activities going on. For summer try water activities or even just bowling.

My date offer is usually mass/rosary and then dinner. Figured it would be nice to have the religious setting to start it off.

Honestly, if you find a girl who wants to do that, awesome and keep her, but that might be part of the problem. Most girls don’t see mass and rosary as a romantic thing, and it comes off as pretty serious. I would stay away from throwing in anything overtly religious unless you know this girl is REALLY devout.

 

[GospelOfMatthew]

I think this is my issue. All I do is talk about favorite saints or popes or different mass experiences with girls. I don’t really have much confidence talking with girls because it was destroyed from years of impure struggles and I’m still struggling to accept that showing attraction isn’t sinful so usually I just talk about religion since it makes me feel personally comfortable. Meh

 

[GospelOfMatthew]

I’ve done the bowling route many times since I bowled for school teams for years and was one of the top bowlers in my entire state and had recruiters wanting me and such. But it’s always awkward when I go shoot a 240 and the girl gets a 63. I don’t want to come off like I’m “trying too hard” or “caring too much” but I’m not gonna suck on purpose either

 

[MarlboroMan]

I hear ya. But part of dating is learning to be comfortable in awkward situations. Retreating back into our favorite “topic” is something most guys do when we’re nervous or anxious, but it can put people off and it is kind of obvious.

It’s been tough for me the last few years because I wasn’t Catholic until a few yeara ago so my dating experience was always with sex in mind. It definitely adds to the anxiousness when you’re dealing with moral stuff on top of the natural nerves of being with an attractive girl. But it realky is all about practice and mindset. Just remember that girls are usually as nervous as guys are and try very hard not to use the comfort-blanket of a favorite topic when you get nerves.

For real though, I feel you with the “meh”.

Edit:

But it’s always awkward when I go shoot a 240 and the girl gets a 63.

Lmao! That just made my day hahaha. Maybe not bowling then lol

 

[WingsOfEagles]

My date offer is usually mass/rosary and then dinner. Figured it would be nice to have the religious setting to start it off. But usually this is a “yeah maybe some other time” or “I’m busy sorry.”

This is probably a big reason you’ve been having trouble getting yes. If you talk religion all of the time and then your first date idea is also a mass/rosary (even if dinner is offered as well), a girl (esp 20 y.o.) may find that a little serious/weird/off-putting. Now, if you have a large college youth group that all tend to go to the same Mass time and you were to ask a young lady who usually attends it if she would like to get breakfast/dinner/coffee after said Mass sometime, that might be less weird because you are both going to be there anyway and the after Mass part would be viewed as the date. Overall though, something not involving a very religious activity may improve your luck for a first date.

 

[Edmundus1581]

GospelOfMatthew:

My date offer is usually mass/rosary and then dinner. Figured it would be nice to have the religious setting to start it off. But usually this is a “yeah maybe some other time” or “I’m busy sorry.”

This is probably a big reason you’ve been having trouble getting yes. If you talk religion all of the time and then your first date idea is also a mass/rosary (even if dinner is offered as well), a girl (esp 20 y.o.) may find that a little serious/weird/off-putting. Now, if you have a large college youth group that all tend to go to the same Mass time and you were to ask a young lady who usually attends it if she would like to get breakfast/dinner/coffee after said Mass sometime, that might be less weird because you are both going to be there anyway and the after Mass part would be viewed as the date. Overall though, something not involving a very religious activity may improve your luck for a first date.

I totally agree.

@GospelOfMatthew is young and still finding his way, so would have worked this out eventually, but this will help him get there faster!

I think part of the problem for young men is that they usually focus very hard on their current interests and projects, whether it be religion or work, and so naturally talk about them. They make a big advance in their prospects with women when they learn to cut these conversations short, to “leave it at the office” so to speak.

When I learned that I immediately became more confident not just with women, but with everyone. If a conversation turns to a mutual interest and can go in depth then let it, but avoid steering it that way.

There’s an old truism that a woman likes to feel “special”. An important part of this is being able to let go of self-absorption. If you want to be really cynical about this just go straight to asking about her, and talk about your family, pets and movies and other stuff which girls like. Talk about yourself mostly in terms of accomplishments rather than details (“I got a high distinction in maths”, “I bowled 240 last week”) and give the impression that it’s not such a big deal.

My ex-wife told me was that one of the first things that attracted her was when we were both in first year university I got an HD in my first computing course and told her but didn’t make a big deal of it.

There’s a crass and horrible song by Cyndi Lauper called “Girls just want to have fun”. I won’t link it. But it is one of the most fundamental truths a man needs to learn, even for Catholic women. There is real sense in this female characteristic, for the future well being of both and the family, which should be another topic.

I also suggest you check my post #33 about being “too serious”, which has got quite a few ‘likes’ (thanks!). Again, there is real sense in why women avoid such men. It is for the best.

 

[GospelOfMatthew]

I’m thinking a lot of my issues/social awkwardness with women might work themselves out once I gain more confidence and not feeling I’m annoying people or being a burden. Once I get a handle on that I think I will do much better

 

[Edmundus1581]

And what women do when they want a guy is ask him a lot about his work and interests, and let him talk to the point of boredom. Take it as a compliment, but don’t go too far.

A callous woman will, once she’s snared him, suddenly lose all interest in these things and even blame him for being obsessive about them.

 

[GospelOfMatthew]

In your experience, is it obvious when a guy is nervous, stuttering and such and does this come across as weak?

 

[BoomBoomMancini]

That’s not masculine. It’s mental.

I can’t think of anything less genuinely masculine. The cast of Ru Paul’s Drag Race look like Lee Marvin in comparison.

 

[Convert3]

Don’t worry about how you come across. That may be your problem. Be yourself. Plan a date to have fun. Keep the conversation light hearted. Just have fun and be yourself. Trying to show how strong your faith is they will learn over time. They want to know how you are as a man to be with. They want to see you as a fun guy, who is responsible but not looking to live in a monastery.