Gabrielle Giffords Endorses Clinton

  • Thread starter Thread starter Lily_Bernans
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
estesbob said:
There is no hypothetical at all. Are there any circumstances that you believe a woman has the right to kill he newborn. if not why?. And please do not drag out the 'potential life" canard. My Daughter is 5 months pregnant and can feel that “potential life” kicking up a storm. Potential life, like sub-human, is one of those labels we hang on those we wish to justify killing.

BTW-as one who counseled in a CPC for over 5 years I can assure you the Dr rarely if ever gets involved in the decision other to make sure he is going to get paid.
Click to expand...
With all due respect, I think it’s best for us to part ways on the topic at this juncture. I’m not out to change your mind and you’re not going to change mine.

I think we can continue to work for the same goals - a world where all human life is welcome and wanted and where abortion is rare. If we have differing views of how to get there, that’s okay by me.

As a newbie in this forum, I will definitely have to get used to the fact that political threads in this environment might turn into an abortion debate more often than not! God bless!
 
Jeanne_S said:
Re the funding of just wars,I believe there is a difference in that ,really,the chief purpose of the gov’t is to protect it’s citizens and our borders.Isn’t the same argument as abortions n IMO.
Click to expand...
There is the reverse position among Friends, in general, for there are a variety of beliefs in their religion. IOW, many are not opposed to abortion but are opposed to ANY war. There is no such thing as a just war. According to them, the government has no business ordering the killing of other people. Two examples of Quakers are/were Richard Nixon (gasp!) and Joan Baez.
 
meltzerboy said:
Good point. And, to finish your thought (perhaps), somehow we survived as a country when abortion was not legal. But what were the consequences for women in those days, even if unsafe, back-alley abortions were not as statistically numerous as some studies have shown?
Click to expand...
Well, one of the consequences of having abortion illegal was that there were many fewer abortions overall. So I would have to say one consequence is that there are many people today, walking around and breathing and enjoying life, who would not have been alive if abortion had been legal back then.
 
estesbob said:
The sad part is how they try to convince one and all that they are not marginalizing the teachings of the Church.
Click to expand...
I can understand how you might feel that way. But to those on the other side of this issue, it appears just the opposite. It appears to them that those who claim abortion trumps all are using this issue as an excuse to marginalized many other teachings of the Church, like or duty to the poor. I’m not saying you are doing that, but you can understand how it might appear that way.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
I can understand how you might feel that way. But to those on the other side of this issue, it appears just the opposite. It appears to them that those who claim abortion trumps all are using this issue as an excuse to marginalized many other teachings of the Church, like or duty to the poor. I’m not saying you are doing that, but you can understand how it might appear that way.
Click to expand...
Since we have pointed out a large number of popes bishops and cardinals who have said that the right to life trumps all other rights I hardly think we can be accused of marginalizing other teachings of the church.
 
meltzerboy said:
I do agree. I believe it is an infringement of religious liberty to impose on people of faith the contribution of their tax dollars toward the funding of abortions. I am opposed to the Obama administration’s HHS mandate and am also opposed to tax contributions toward the funding of war in the case of pacifists such as Quakers who do not believe in just wars.
Click to expand...
👍
 
LeafByNiggle said:
Well, one of the consequences of having abortion illegal was that there were many fewer abortions overall. So I would have to say one consequence is that there are many people today, walking around and breathing and enjoying life, who would not have been alive if abortion had been legal back then.
Click to expand...
yes and we are thankful the law protected our right to be born.
 
estesbob said:
Since we have pointed out a large number of popes bishops and cardinals who have said that the right to life trumps all other rights I hardly think we can be accused of marginalizing other teachings of the church.
Click to expand...
Many of your citations were referring to the general issue of comparative importance, but very few of them actually addressed the question of voting for someone when the issue of abortion is not clearly at stake. Such would be the case when neither candidate has a trustworthy position on the issue, so that voting for the nominally most pro-life candidate may not be very effective.
 
meltzerboy said:
And if a woman is an ATHEIST, who then is most qualified to make the decision: she and her family in consultation with their physician OR the federal government, the Catholic Church, Jewish law or the law of some other religion?

OTOH, if a woman is acting in accord with her religious faith in having or not having an abortion, do you think the government should step in and say: sorry, you and your family, doctor, clergyman, and faith cannot decide because WE must decide for you since we know better what is morally right?
Click to expand...
God’s Laws are for EVERYONE, even if they don’t believe it. Every single one of us will have to stand before God at the end of our life, NO MATTER what we believe now. God Bless, Memaw
 
Michael_Mayo said:
The big question though, is Why does anyone want to kill any Thing? Black, Jewish, Native American, fetus? That is where the real work needs to be done. Whether one is pro-life or pro-choice for religious or social moral reasons is secondary. What are the root causes of abortion? And root causes for violence in general?
Click to expand...
👍 That is the fundamental problem. Why does anyone want to hurt anyone else or even anything else? I sure don’t.
 
estesbob said:
Since we have pointed out a large number of popes bishops and cardinals who have said that the right to life trumps all other rights I hardly think we can be accused of marginalizing other teachings of the church.
Click to expand...
It may trump other rights but given that abortion is the law and has been through many administrations, Republican as well as Democrat, the issue serves as a poor litmus test for candidates when there are so many other issues those elected can actually influence much more strongly.
 
Michael_Mayo said:
It may trump other rights but given that abortion is the law and has been through many administrations, Republican as well as Democrat, the issue serves as a poor litmus test for candidates when there are so many other issues those elected can actually influence much more strongly.
Click to expand...
Something that can and should be done across the board is defunding PP.Let them privatize ,stand on their own without gov’t funded support to the tune of half a billion per year! Our president ,current and future has the capability of doing just that. That would be a good first step.
 
Michael_Mayo said:
It may trump other rights but given that abortion is the law and has been through many administrations, Republican as well as Democrat, the issue serves as a poor litmus test for candidates when there are so many other issues those elected can actually influence much more strongly.
Click to expand...
The thinking is that since pro-life is written into the platform of the GOP and pro-choice (some would say pro-death) is written into the platform of the Democratic Party, we have at least some chance that the Republicans will honor their pro-life stance by fighting to reverse the SCOTUS decision, but no chance that the Democrats will switch to a pro-life position and attempt to change the law. With someone at the helm like Donald Trump, however, I doubt abortion will have top priority in his administration. Maybe a true conservative like Ted Cruz will take some action; but I’m not sure how he might go about it and what influence he can play apart from the Supreme Court justices he nominates.
 
meltzerboy said:
The thinking is that since pro-life is written into the platform of the GOP and pro-choice (some would say pro-death) is written into the platform of the Democratic Party, we have at least some chance that the Republicans will honor their pro-life stance by fighting to reverse the SCOTUS decision, but no chance that the Democrats will switch to a pro-life position and attempt to change the law. With someone at the helm like Donald Trump, however, I doubt abortion will have top priority in his administration. Maybe a true conservative like Ted Cruz will take some action; but I’m not sure how he might go about it and what influence he can play apart from the Supreme Court justices he nominates.
Click to expand...
That is a big “maybe” while all the other issue are also in those hands. Would you hand them over to Trump just because he is Republican?
 
Lily_Bernans said:
By that logic, 9/11 would be Bush’s fault. None of these things were the fault of a single person. Not Hillary’s, not Bush’s.
Click to expand...
Bush’s responsibility lies in his response to 9/11, including the removal of the genocidal tyrant, Saddam Hussein.

9.11 itself is the fault of the Islamists, and radical Islam. The fall of Gadaffi is the responsibility of Obama, Clinton and the coalition that took him out. The fact that Islamists would sweep into the power vacuum left behind is something that any reasonable person with even a smidgen of foresight would have been able to account for. The example of what had happened in Iraq ought to have been fresh in absolutely everybodyie heads by the time that rolled around.
 
Michael_Mayo said:
That is a big “maybe” while all the other issue are also in those hands. Would you hand them over to Trump just because he is Republican?
Click to expand...
Not me. I’m a Bernie Sanders supporter! I doubt, however, he will even win the nomination, let alone the general election. But I have gone back to my idealistic roots and prefer him to Hillary Clinton for numerous reasons. As far as Trump’s becoming President, we are entering either Brave New World or The Twilight Zone.
 
meltzerboy said:
Not me. I’m a Bernie Sanders supporter! I doubt, however, he will even win the nomination, let alone the general election. But I have gone back to my idealistic roots and prefer him to Hillary Clinton for numerous reasons. As far as Trump’s becoming President, we are entering either Brave New World or The Twilight Zone.
Click to expand...
I’m crazy about Bernie my own self, particularly because he has forced Hillary to address important issues she may have otherwise swept aside. I think Bernie and Hillary are both excellent for the party as a whole and so this election season has not been as troubling to me as it has been to some.

Thank you, MB. I always enjoy your perspective.
 
Little_Sheep said:
I’m crazy about Bernie my own self, particularly because he has forced Hillary to address important issues she may have otherwise swept aside. I think Bernie and Hillary are both excellent for the party as a whole and so this election season has not been as troubling to me as it has been to some.

Thank you, MB. I always enjoy your perspective.
Click to expand...
Same here, Little Sheep. Thanks for the compliment!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top