Gabrielle Giffords Endorses Clinton

[Darryl1958]

The really sad part is that she did not drown-she suffocated. She found an air pocket in the backseat and slowly suffocated while Ted sat on the bridge trying to determine how he was going to spin this in such a way it didn’t end his political career .

Trump brags about being able to shoot somebody on the street without losing any support.
A Kennedy can drunkenly drive a car into a river, and leave a girl in the back to ground, and not only will he not lose any votes among Catholic and his other supporters, but all the machinery of the state will back him to ensure that his political career keeps moving on as smoothly as possible.

Kennedy is a big part of the reason that Democrats have become the party of death on the issue of abortion. I imagine he is a big part of the reason why women’s rights have come to mean the unbridled sexual freedom for a woman to go palling around with married men, and having complete access to abortion to enable this kind of behavior.

It is a definition of women’s rights that has worked out well for men like Ted Kennedy. He died a hero in the minds of his mainstream America. As for women like Mary Jo, or Monica L. a generation later, the results have been suffocating.

 

[Sy_Noe]

LOL Well, as you know, Sy, I didn’t do too well with my last predictions! But I’ll give it a go. She’ll take Kansas, Louisiana, and Nebraska, but not Maine. Maine will go to Sanders.

There’s the Kentucky and Puerto Rico caucuses, too. Clinton.

I’m really looking forward to March 15th and Florida and Ohio. For the Republicans, if there are any left, as well as the Democrats.

Are you willing to share your predictions?

Well, FWIW Lily, my perfection was tanked on Super Tues. Up until then I had even correctly predicted the order of win, place, and show in each of the Republican horse races. Then came Super Tues and I missed Cruz in OK. Cruz in Alaska. Rubio in MN. And I now know this sounds absolutely nuts, but I also missed Trump in GA! For some mysterious reason I actually thought Rubio could win a neighboring state.

On the Democratic side, I knew polling had him in the race there but I missed Bernie in OK. And Hillary in MA. So overall I was only 17/23 last Tues counting American Samoa on the Democratic side.

It was also so much easier to follow in the early states when both parties kept to the same schedule on the same day. Then suddenly SC was one day for the Republicans on the same day NV was for the Democrats. Then NV for the Republicans was days later and SC for the Democrats was a wk after the Republicans had SC. Even this weekend, I think I saw KY and PR were Republican events only but don’t hold me to that.

But all of that said, sure I’ll play…

I give to Trump KY, Louisiana and Maine. Cruz KS. Rubio PR. To Hillary, you may be right. Bernie gets Maine. But another side of me wants to give KS and NE to Bernie much like OK and MN and CO went to him. But then I recall IA.

So in short, I have no idea anymore. The only thing I’m still reasonably certain of is Hillary will be the nominee. I have to say, I do think Mar 15 could be a very good day for her.

 

[Darryl1958]

Trump brags about being able to shoot somebody on the street without losing any support.
A Kennedy can drunkenly drive a car into a river, and leave a girl in the back to drown, and not only will he not lose any votes among Catholic and his other supporters, but all the machinery of the state will back him to ensure that his political career keeps moving on as smoothly as possible.

Kennedy is a big part of the reason that Democrats have become the party of death on the issue of abortion. I imagine he is a big part of the reason why women’s rights have come to mean the unbridled sexual freedom for a woman to go palling around with married men, and having complete access to abortion to enable this kind of behavior.

It is a definition of women’s rights that has worked out well for men like Ted Kennedy. He died a hero in the minds of his mainstream America. As for women like Mary Jo, or Monica L. a generation later, the results have been suffocating.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Can you show us where the church teaches that any of the issues you list rise to the level of abortion? Higher wages and and healthcare do absolutely nothing for those denied the right to life .

What do you believe are the underlying causes of abortion? Legality would be moot without those causes.

 

[estesbob]

What do you believe are the underlying causes of abortion? Legality would be moot without those causes.

Disrespect for life. our country has embraced the culture of death where “me” comes before everything else. The acceptance of abortion is the cornerstone of the culture of death.

 

[Sy_Noe]

There seems to be a galactic proportion issue there

Since 1972 & Roe V Wade, in this country alone, 1.5 million abortions/yr x 44 years = 66 million murders of the innocents through abortion. That’s over 4000 murders/day of innocent children.

Hilary Clinton endorses abortion at any stage of life including late term abortion.

Talk about terrorism!!!
Isis doesn’t even come close to that carnage.

I guess I am just going to have to accept that I will never understand how such rhetoric from the “pro-life” side helps the cause in any way. Since I find it so inflammatory and don’t see how it helps in any way to move a pro choice person from their position. Not when they are continuously accused of things such as “over 4000 murders/day” when under the law as it now stands, it is not considered murder of a baby, child, or human being or person. And then to top it off by comparing them to terrorists and ISIS.

 

[randomuser]

I guess I am just going to have to accept that I will never understand how such rhetoric from the “pro-life” side helps the cause in any way. Since I find it so inflammatory and don’t see how it helps in any way to move a pro choice person from their position. Not when they are continuously accused of things such as “over 4000 murders/day” when under the law as it now stands, it is not considered murder of a baby, child, or human being or person. And then to top it off by comparing them to terrorists and ISIS.

Considering how so many pro-lifers are apparently a-okay with a “pro-life” candidate who sings the praises of the “wonderful work” PP does, that’s a perfectly understandable view.

 

[Brendan]

I guess I am just going to have to accept that I will never understand how such rhetoric from the “pro-life” side helps the cause in any way. Since I find it so inflammatory and don’t see how it helps in any way to move a pro choice person from their position. Not when they are continuously accused of things such as “over 4000 murders/day” when under the law as it now stands, it is not considered murder of a baby, child, or human being or person. And then to top it off by comparing them to terrorists and ISIS.

Neither was the Holocaust the murder of a baby, child or human being. They were legally sub-humans.

Likewise with the killing of a slave in the antebellum South. That was property disposal, not murder.

So why should a legal definition be the deciding factor?

 

[estesbob]

I guess I am just going to have to accept that I will never understand how such rhetoric from the “pro-life” side helps the cause in any way. Since I find it so inflammatory and don’t see how it helps in any way to move a pro choice person from their position. Not when they are continuously accused of things such as “over 4000 murders/day” when under the law as it now stands, it is not considered murder of a baby, child, or human being or person. And then to top it off by comparing them to terrorists and ISIS.

I guess I will never understand how voting for those who have vowed to keep abortion legal help the pro-life cause in anyway

 

[Path_Finder]

I guess I am just going to have to accept that I will never understand how such rhetoric from the “pro-life” side helps the cause in any way. Since I find it so inflammatory and don’t see how it helps in any way to move a pro choice person from their position. Not when they are continuously accused of things such as “over 4000 murders/day” when under the law as it now stands, it is not considered murder of a baby, child, or human being or person. And then to top it off by comparing them to terrorists and ISIS.

And as we all know, slavery was legal too once.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Neither was the Holocaust the murder of a baby, child or human being. They were legally sub-humans.

Likewise with the killing of a slave in the antebellum South. That was property disposal, not murder.

So why should a legal definition be the deciding factor?

I actually don’t find such apples and oranges comparisons very helpful to the movement either. Because those comparisons don’t seem to fly with those who support reproductive rights for women. Comparing living people being systematically murdered for their ethnic, religious or even sexual identity, or black human beings being enslaved, to the pro choice person doesn’t equate to an embryo or fetus dependent on a woman’s body for survival.

And how many on the “pro life” side want to throw women in jail for abortion? Does it follow then that enslaving other human beings is not a punishable offense either? Is that the message the “pro life” side wants sent?

Just some food for thought on what remains a divisive issue to be sure. But I’m not even sure why the thread topic of gun control was lost so much in this thread and abortion became the topic. So God bless and peace.

 

[pianistclare]

I actually don’t find such apples and oranges comparisons very helpful to the movement either. Because those comparisons don’t seem to fly with those who support reproductive rights for women. Comparing living people being systematically murdered for their ethnic, religious or even sexual identity, or black human beings being enslaved, to the pro choice person doesn’t equate to an embryo or fetus dependent on a woman’s body for survival.

And how many on the “pro life” want to throw women in jail for abortion? Does it follow then that enslaving other human beings is not a punishable offense either? Is that message the “pro life” side wants sent?

A divisive issue to be sure. But I’m not even sure why the thread topic of gun control was lost so much in this thread and abortion became the topic. So God bless and peace.

It became an issue when people who profess to be Catholic keep saying it’s not a big deal to have abortion on the books.
It is a big deal. It’s not a dead horse.
it’s a real problem plaguing the core morality of the country. Dead people are dead people. The fact that it’s legal to allow a woman to kill her child is shocking. How is that we Catholics are not shocked by this anymore?
Burying one’s head about it will not fix the problem. We can’t just say “Oh well, nothing works”.
We have to find a candidate with a solution.
peace.
Peace to you too.
.

 

[Little_Sheep]

…The fact that it’s legal to allow a woman to kill her child is shocking. How is that we Catholics are not shocked by this anymore?
…
.

Based on my Catholic friends, I would say that it is because they don’t consider abortion murder.

To call woman who has an abortion a murderer or a baby killer is rhetoric that makes people cringe, not because it’s true, but because it refuses to acknowledge the many nuances inherent to an honest, productive discussion about abortion.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Disrespect for life. our country has embraced the culture of death where “me” comes before everything else. The acceptance of abortion is the cornerstone of the culture of death.

I agree.

And it goes, then, beyond abortion to materialism, consumerism, the environment, and the lack of solidarity with the the marginalized. I think this is a point Pope Francis tries to make: it is all connected. A culture of life respects life across the lifespan and all forms of life. Not that all issues are equal but all are connected. And both our political parties do not see that connection.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Well, FWIW Lily, my perfection was tanked on Super Tues. Up until then I had even correctly predicted the order of win, place, and show in each of the Republican horse races. Then came Super Tues and I missed Cruz in OK. Cruz in Alaska. Rubio in MN. And I now know this sounds absolutely nuts, but I also missed Trump in GA! For some mysterious reason I actually thought Rubio could win a neighboring state.

On the Democratic side, I knew polling had him in the race there but I missed Bernie in OK. And Hillary in MA. So overall I was only 17/23 last Tues counting American Samoa on the Democratic side.

It was also so much easier to follow in the early states when both parties kept to the same schedule on the same day. Then suddenly SC was one day for the Republicans on the same day NV was for the Democrats. Then NV for the Republicans was days later and SC for the Democrats was a wk after the Republicans had SC. Even this weekend, I think I saw KY and PR were Republican events only but don’t hold me to that.

But all of that said, sure I’ll play…

I give to Trump KY, Louisiana and Maine. Cruz KS. Rubio PR. To Hillary, you may be right. Bernie gets Maine. But another side of me wants to give KS and NE to Bernie much like OK and MN and CO went to him. But then I recall IA.

So in short, I have no idea anymore. The only thing I’m still reasonably certain of is Hillary will be the nominee. I have to say, I do think Mar 15 could be a very good day for her.

Thank you, Sy! I think you are right, and I was wrong - KY and PR are Republican today. I did get Clinton and MA right only because I remembered how popular Bill is there and that Hillary went to Wellesley College. If I wouldn’t have remembered that, I would have given it to Bernie since it’s New England. I would have never guessed Rubio would win MN!

I think you’re going to be better at predicting this than I am, which comes as no surprise. I do agree with you, though, Hillary will be the Democratic nominee, and I do think she’ll go on to win the presidency,. I shouldn’t predict that so early, but I haven’t got much to lose. My record is pretty bad already! Well, whatever, it’s going to be interesting!

Thanks, Sy!

 

[Lily_Bernans]

I agree.

And it goes, then, beyond abortion to materialism, consumerism, the environment, and the lack of solidarity with the the marginalized. I think this is a point Pope Francis tries to make: it is all connected. A culture of life respects life across the lifespan and all forms of life. Not that all issues are equal but all are connected. And both our political parties do not see that connection.

I agree with that, too, but I think the whole thing began with “the Pill.” Contraception. It divorced the sexual act from it’s procreative raison d’etre. Even it’s unitive. It made sexual relations into something to simply do for pleasure like going to see a movie or hiking in the park. If a child was conceived, it was seen as an unwanted by-product like picking up a tick in the woods. People mocked Pope Paul VI’s Humanae Vitae when he published it in when? 1968? However, the dire consequences Paul VI warned us against have come to pass.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Based on my Catholic friends, I would say that it is because they don’t consider abortion murder.

To call woman who has an abortion a murderer or a baby killer is rhetoric that makes people cringe, not because it’s true, but because it refuses to acknowledge the many nuances inherent to an honest, productive discussion about abortion.

But it is true.Facing the truth about abortion is the first step in obliterating it from our society.

 

[steve_b]

I didn’t forget that.

The Democrats haven’t been in control of everything for more than 40 years, and it hasn’t gotten worse, it’s stayed the same. The Republicans have had control part of the time, and what did they do? Nothing.

Incorrect

1. Have you not heard about the Mexico City Policy, which receives funding / year from U.S. taxpayers, by executive order ( the president), of ~$500M to fund abortion internationally, or deny such funding depending on what party occupies the White House?

That’s right.

It’s by executive order which means it is implemented by the president and can only be rescinded by the president. If a democrat is in office for 2 terms that’s $500M / yr x 8 yrs = $4B taxpayer dollars to fund abortions internationally. If a Republican is in the White House that funding is denied. $4B denied.
cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/23/obama.abortion/

**2. **Have you examined the platforms of each political party?

• Republican party platform ontheissues.org/Celeb/Republican_Party_Abortion.htm
• Democrat party platform http://ontheissues.org/Celeb/Democratic_Party_Abortion.htm

That’s a HUGE difference!!

Any Catholic voting for a democrat knowing that huge chasm between democrat and republican exists on life, has all those aborted babies on THEIR soul, putting their own soul in mortal danger.
L:

Abortion can’t be stopped with legislation just as child molestation and pornography can’t be stopped with legislation.

Abortion was made legal in 1972 in the U.S. under any circumstances and under any stage of life. That means a woman has not just permission, she has license to abort her child. Since Roe V Wade, 1.5 million abortions / yr occur in this country alone. Those are the ones we know about. Now there is the RU486 pill making the process even easier.

What were the numbers of abortions when it was illegal?

Legislation matters

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Incorrect

1. Have you not heard about the Mexico City Policy, which receives funding / year from U.S. taxpayers, by executive order ( the president), of ~$500M to fund abortion internationally, or deny such funding depending on what party occupies the White House?

That’s right.

It’s by executive order which means it is implemented by the president and can only be rescinded by the president. If a democrat is in office for 2 terms that’s $500M / yr x 8 yrs = $4B taxpayer dollars to fund abortions internationally. If a Republican is in the White House that funding is denied. $4B denied.
cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/23/obama.abortion/

**2. **Have you examined the platforms of each political party?

• Republican party platform ontheissues.org/Celeb/Republican_Party_Abortion.htm
• Democrat party platform http://ontheissues.org/Celeb/Democratic_Party_Abortion.htm

That’s a HUGE difference!!

Any Catholic voting for a democrat knowing that huge chasm between democrat and republican exists on life, has all those aborted babies on THEIR soul, putting their own soul in mortal danger.

Abortion was made legal in 1972 in the U.S. under any circumstances and under any stage of life. That means a woman has not just permission, she has license to abort her child. Since Roe V Wade, 1.5 million abortions / yr occur in this country alone. Those are the ones we know about. Now there is the RU486 pill making the process even easier.

What were the numbers of abortions when it was illegal?

Legislation matters

As I’ve said probably more than 25 times now, I vote on more than just where a candidate stands on abortion. I’m not an advocate of abortion, but I also don’t believe in taking away a Jewish woman’s right to have an abortion as sometimes mandated by her faith. The US is not a theocracy. We can’t intrude on another faith just to advance our own. Opposition to abortion begins in the home, with a child who is old enough to understand the procreative and unitive aspects of marriage as well as the absolute sanctity of life. Ultimately all people have to answer to God, and that includes the Catholic parents who have abandoned the education of their children.

And why no outrage against contraception? That’s the root of the problem. It’s contraception that turned American culture into a “culture of death.”

 

[Little_Sheep]

As I’ve said probably more than 25 times now, I vote on more than just where a candidate stands on abortion. I’m not an advocate of abortion, but I also don’t believe in taking away a Jewish woman’s right to have an abortion as sometimes mandated by her faith. The US is not a theocracy. We can’t intrude on another faith just to advance our own. Opposition to abortion begins in the home, with a child who is old enough to understand the procreative and unitive aspects of marriage as well as the absolute sanctity of life. Ultimately all people have to answer to God, and that includes the Catholic parents who have abandoned the education of their children.

And why no outrage against contraception? That’s the root of the problem. It’s contraception that turned American culture into a “culture of death.”

LB,

I appreciate your thoughtful response to elections and personal values.

Also, thanks for throwing the contraception word into this conversation. While I’ve seen women who have abortions called murderers more times than I can count (or stomach), I’ve never seen women who use contraception called murderers. I’ve also never seen anti-choicers picket a pharmacy. Again, your consistency truly shines a spotlight on the hypocrisy and empty rhetoric of so many who believe they have any business involving themselves in another woman’s medical decisions.

And finally, thank you for supporting the belief that a government should not be run by any one religion’s beliefs.