Gay Marriage and the End of Christian Civilization

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When considering quotes to defend your position, also please remember that Bible verses do not count. Not because Scripture isn’t the basis of a valid argument, but because scripture can be interpreted any which way by anyone, hence the fractured nature of Protestant denominationalism. I need teaching, not Bible verses.
 
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6 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and clings to his wife, and the two of them become one body.
usccb.org/nab/bible/genesis/genesis2.htm

“and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?”
usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew19.htm

" “For this reason a man shall leave (his) father and (his) mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”
usccb.org/nab/bible/ephesians/ephesians5.htm

Dawn, neither the Bible verses you cited, nor the Catechism supports the idea that the first person someone has sex with is their spouse. And that is the objection raised by RCconvert7. Are you really continuing in that idea? None of the evidence you offered supports the idea that your claim is actually Catholic teaching.
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

123 Christians venerate the Old Testament as true Word of God. The Church has always vigorously opposed the idea of rejecting the Old Testament under the pretext that the New has rendered it void (Marcionism).

129 Christians therefore read the Old Testament in the light of Christ crucified and risen. Such typological reading discloses the inexhaustible content of the Old Testament; but it must not make us forget that the Old Testament retains its own intrinsic value as Revelation reaffirmed by our Lord himself.105 Besides, the New Testament has to be read in the light of the Old. Early Christian catechesis made constant use of the Old Testament.106 As an old saying put it, the New Testament lies hidden in the Old and the Old Testament is unveiled in the New.107

130 Typology indicates the dynamic movement toward the fulfillment of the divine plan when "God [will] be everything to everyone."108 Nor do the calling of the patriarchs and the exodus from Egypt, for example, lose their own value in God’s plan, from the mere fact that they were intermediate stages.

Once again, read about Jacob, Rachel and Leah in Genesis.

It’s in there. I’ve already posted links and all. If you don’t have a Bible:

usccb.org/nab/bible/index.shtml

God Bless.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn
 
…Trying to make fun of me doesn’t answer my question.
It was YOU who said you never heard of that before, not me.

What does that sound like to you? Are you an Apologist? Theologian?

God Bless.
+Jesus, I Trust In You.
Love, Dawn
 
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
None of your comment has to do with the rather unusual, and certainly un-Catholic, claim that the first person someone has sex with is their spouse.

Its not a matter of having a Bible or reading it online. Its a matter of staying true to the teachings of the Catholic Church. And you seem to be advancing an idea with is not supported by the Church.
 
This thread was supposed to be about how Gay Marriage will bring an end to our Christian Civilization. How did it get derailed?

If anything I have said is against the Catholic Church, let it be anathema.
 
None of your comment has to do with the rather unusual, and certainly un-Catholic, claim that the first person someone has sex with is their spouse.

Its not a matter of having a Bible or reading it online. Its a matter of staying true to the teachings of the Catholic Church. And you seem to be advancing an idea with is not supported by the Church.
I cannot find where it was revoked from the Old Testament-just where it is considered a serious sin now.

Therefore, it must have been changed-if it did not remain the same?

Usually, there was a question in the Bible like when the Jews asked Jesus for instance about how Moses allowed them to Divorce, and He changed things and said: Lewd conduct excluded, you are married until death you part. <-This is why Jews are allowed to divorce, and we are not.

Okay, I’m done.
Now Back to Homosexual Marriage and the End of Christian Civilization.

God Bless.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn
 
I cannot find where it was revoked from the Old Testament-just where it is considered a serious sin now.
Dawn, could you provide a citation from the Bible where it says that the first person someone has sex with is equivalent to their spouse. This is the claim you made, and you haven’t so far shown that either that the Bible says it, or that the Catholic Church teaches it.

Its okay to back down if you made a rhetorical statement in the heat of the moment. Everyone, including myself, has posted things they wish they hadn’t. However, if you really are clinging to this non-Catholic belief, you might want to reconsider.
 
To your credit, Dawn, I will say this:

I have heard this claim before about sex=marriage, I’ve just never heard anyone claim that it’s a Catholic belief.

To answer YOUR question, I’m a theology student. Hopefully someday I’ll be able to call myself a theologian, but for now, I’m an “apprentice theologian.”
 
However, please understand with clarity that we deserve whatever we get!
I.P., I totally agree with your criticisms and predictions 👍, but this last part is a bit off: the Gramscian Long March that has enabled this putrifaction of Western society is not your or my doing; it cannot be laid at the feet of any of us who all these decades have continued to adhere to the eternal design. It is the fruit of Gramscianism, plain and simple. A tiny minority of (well-endowed) termites has relentlessly undermined the underpinnings of what made Western Civilization great.

Remember what The Preacher says: Dead flies make the perfumer’s ointment give off a stench; so a little folly outweighs wisdom and honor. (Eccl. 10:1) The “dead flies” of the late 60’s have brought us the carrion of this present state. We must not make the mistake of pointing the finger at ourselves.
 
larkin31;6989138:
Once again, according the the rules of the Forum:

Why are you here?

Are you here to learn about the Catholic Faith?

Or to lead Catholics away from their Faith?

To waste our time?

You never answered before-I will ask once again.

A Troll? All you do is antagonize. Troublemaker.
You don’t like to be asked where your generalizations about the genders come from, do you?

The topic is gay marriage and the end of civilization, not me. And I am not the only one asking you to support your claims, which tend to be very broad.
 
Dawn, could you provide a citation from the Bible where it says that the first person someone has sex with is equivalent to their spouse. This is the claim you made, and you haven’t so far shown that either that the Bible says it, or that the Catholic Church teaches it.

Its okay to back down if you made a rhetorical statement in the heat of the moment. Everyone, including myself, has posted things they wish they hadn’t. However, if you really are clinging to this non-Catholic belief, you might want to reconsider.
Taught by a Catholic mother to her 3 daughters and 1 son.

Kept us out of many a boyfriend’s bed.

Genesis 29:1-30:34

29:21 Then Jacob said to Laban, “Give me my wife, that I may consummate my marriage with her, for my term is now completed.”

29:23 At nightfall he took his daughter Leah and brought her to Jacob, and Jacob consummated the marriage with her.

29:28 Jacob agreed. He finished the bridal week for Leah, and then Laban gave him his daughter Rachel in marriage.

30 Jacob then consummated his marriage with Rachel also, and he loved her more than Leah. Thus he remained in Laban’s service another seven years.

Reading the above (again), I realize they were consummating their marriage. Now I see, reading Chapter 30 that Bilhah and Zilpah (Rachel & Leah’s maidservants) would have also been his wives-but they weren’t. There was no marriage with the maidservants.

Our mother, I believe, taught what she believed to be the Truth of our Faith. I suspect she herself was taught this, not thought it up on her own (by reading the Bible).

Her parents also had 3 daughters (and 2 sons).

Sorry. I apologize. Sex outside of Marriage is (I don’t want to say “just a”) Serious Sin.

I learn something new every day. I don’t mean to confuse.

God Bless.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn
 
To your credit, Dawn, I will say this:

I have heard this claim before about sex=marriage, I’ve just never heard anyone claim that it’s a Catholic belief.

To answer YOUR question, I’m a theology student. Hopefully someday I’ll be able to call myself a theologian, but for now, I’m an “apprentice theologian.”
Well, that’s just great-that you’re a theology student.
May God Bless you, and guide you in your Studies and Life. (This I pray).

+Dominus Vobiscum.
Immaculate Heart of Mary, I place all my Trust in You!
Love, Dawn
 
DawnInTexas;6989525:
You don’t like to be asked where your generalizations about the genders come from, do you?

The topic is gay marriage and the end of civilization, not me. And I am not the only one asking you to support your claims, which tend to be very broad.
You, I am putting on my Ignore list-your posts won’t show to me.

You’re not here to learn about the Catholic Faith, you are here to antagonize and argue.

I’m surprised you’re not banned yet.

+Peace Be With You.
God Bless.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn
 
larkin31;6990280:
You, I am putting on my Ignore list-your posts won’t show to me.

You’re not here to learn about the Catholic Faith, you are here to antagonize and argue.

I’m surprised you’re not banned yet.

+Peace Be With You.
God Bless.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn
bye, then

go in peace
 
This thread was supposed to be about how Gay Marriage will bring an end to our Christian Civilization. How did it get derailed?
dunno, but I agree

So, I have a question back on the topic: If civilization is heading towards its end, how is this downward trend evident in the Catholic Church? The Catholic Church is the world’s largest religious organization, has over a billion members, etc. If civilization is headed down the tubes, is the RCC going with it? Or is the RCC immune to this? And if it is, then why say that “civilization” is headed for an end? With 33% of the world being Christian, another 20% being Muslim (very socially traditional, sharing most of Christianity’s sexual mores–especially the ones mentioned on these pages), how is civilization headed for the brink? We have ended the Cold War, China is now beginning to prosper and open up more, the world’s nationalistic boundaries are softening in many places. What is this “end” that is evident?
 
dunno, but I agree

So, I have a question back on the topic: If civilization is heading towards its end, how is this downward trend evident in the Catholic Church? The Catholic Church is the world’s largest religious organization, has over a billion members, etc. If civilization is headed down the tubes, is the RCC going with it? Or is the RCC immune to this? And if it is, then why say that “civilization” is headed for an end? With 33% of the world being Christian, another 20% being Muslim (very socially traditional, sharing most of Christianity’s sexual mores–especially the ones mentioned on these pages), how is civilization headed for the brink? We have ended the Cold War, China is now beginning to prosper and open up more, the world’s nationalistic boundaries are softening in many places. What is this “end” that is evident?
Awesome questions.

If you take a serious look at the state of Christianity, it becomes very clear that we living through a period of apostasy, either or small or great. The vast majority (probably 90%) do not follow all the teachings of the faith, with people aborting, contracepting, divorcing, living together, fornicating, not going to Mass, not going to confession, etc…

These conditions can signal the end times, or perhaps a period of chastisement.
 
This is America. Try “sucking it up.”

As “Jimmy Dugan” famously said," It is supposed to be hard, otherwise everyone would do it."

If you can only stand to live in a place where everyone agrees with you, try going to a predominantly Catholic country. The founders of the US were brave enough to allow Catholics, even though some challenged the most basic democratic ideals by voting as they were told to vote by another. If it had been put to a referendum, Catholics probably would have been out, but the founders were wise enough to embrace religious tolerance. But even today, not every nation is up to that challenge.

Of course it would be easier to have everyone follow a single belief. Then we wouldn’t have to worry about so many things, from gay marriage to divorce to whether we can build a mosque in Tennessee. But as Americans, we have to be better than that. If you think that your ability to practice Chrisitanity dissolves when Christian Gays choose to marry, then you are probably not only a not very good American, but a poor excuse for a Christian.

On the other hand, for hundreds of years American Catholics have been able to “suck it up” and live with people who eat meat on Friday, dont go to Mass, and get divorced. Hindus come here and are surrounded by meat eating. I expect in the next decade there will be married gays living next door, just as there are Budhists and Muslims and Jews and Catholics and Methodists. And when you see their kids playing in my yard, you wont know whose parents are gay, and whose are straight.
 
Awesome questions.

If you take a serious look at the state of Christianity, it becomes very clear that we living through a period of apostasy, either or small or great. The vast majority (probably 90%) do not follow all the teachings of the faith, with people aborting, contracepting, divorcing, living together, fornicating, not going to Mass, not going to confession, etc…

These conditions can signal the end times, or perhaps a period of chastisement.
It is the end of Satan’s Era, not the world.
There’s the period coming where weapons will be hammered into plowshares and pruning hooks. The period of Pope Leo XIII’s ecstacy-with Satan being chained for a thousand years before being let out-shortly before the end of the world.

The chain, by the way, is the Holy Rosary.

The Truimph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary is close. Satan knows his time is short (now).

In the Divine Mercy Diary of St. Faustina, Christ said we are in the period of His Mercy-before the Period of His Justice.

But then again, private revelation does not have to be believed by Catholics.

Some believe it’s “business as usual” in the world, and all is well.

We’ve been discussing this in the Back Fence-End Times Speculation threads here at CAF for over 2 years now, if anyone’s interested.

God Bless.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn
 
It is the end of Satan’s Era, not the world.
There’s the period coming where weapons will be hammered into plowshares and pruning hooks. The period of Pope Leo XIII’s ecstacy-with Satan being chained for a thousand years before being let out-shortly before the end of the world.

The chain, by the way, is the Holy Rosary.

The Truimph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary is close. Satan knows his time is short (now).

In the Divine Mercy Diary of St. Faustina, Christ said we are in the period of His Mercy-before the Period of His Justice.

But then again, private revelation does not have to be believed by Catholics.

Some believe it’s “business as usual” in the world, and all is well.

We’ve been discussing this in the Back Fence-End Times Speculation threads here at CAF for over 2 years now, if anyone’s interested.

God Bless.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn
The era of satan should have ended 10 years ago. The Church teaches there will be no 1,000 year reign of Christ or satan.
 
This is America. Try “sucking it up.”

As “Jimmy Dugan” famously said," It is supposed to be hard, otherwise everyone would do it."

If you can only stand to live in a place where everyone agrees with you, try going to a predominantly Catholic country. The founders of the US were brave enough to allow Catholics, even though some challenged the most basic democratic ideals by voting as they were told to vote by another. If it had been put to a referendum, Catholics probably would have been out, but the founders were wise enough to embrace religious tolerance. But even today, not every nation is up to that challenge.

Of course it would be easier to have everyone follow a single belief. Then we wouldn’t have to worry about so many things, from gay marriage to divorce to whether we can build a mosque in Tennessee. But as Americans, we have to be better than that. If you think that your ability to practice Chrisitanity dissolves when Christian Gays choose to marry, then you are probably not only a not very good American, but a poor excuse for a Christian.

On the other hand, for hundreds of years American Catholics have been able to “suck it up” and live with people who eat meat on Friday, dont go to Mass, and get divorced. Hindus come here and are surrounded by meat eating. I expect in the next decade there will be married gays living next door, just as there are Budhists and Muslims and Jews and Catholics and Methodists. And when you see their kids playing in my yard, you wont know whose parents are gay, and whose are straight.
I disagree.
 
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