Gay Marriage and the End of Christian Civilization

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Yes in this sinful world, ideally and/or practically speaking Catholics would like children to be born to Catholic parents through normal marital relations, just as I am sure that most Jewish, Hindu, Muslim parents would like the same. I do not know if reproduction is relevant or irrelvant in law because I am not a lawyer, but I will take your word for it becuase it sounds reasonable.
You can read the opinion of the judge in the most recent case here: glad.org/uploads/docs/cases/perry-decision-8-4-10.pdf
Yes, but the point is heterosexuals that chose infertile relstionships (unless they chose surgery to circumvent it) did not choose infertility, they chose an infertile partner, just as they could have chose a fertile partner of the opposite sex.
Many parents marry knowing that they cannot have or do not wish to have children. The state does not question this, has not questioned this in the past, and issues marriage certificates regardless.
I have not much choice (except by my votes and protests) but to let the courts do what they decide, but I am probably going to both pray and keep my fingers crossed.
I respect your rights here.
Gay couples actually do want something from the Church, they want to borrow the term “marriage” used for thousands of years and create some new class of marriage all their own.
Marriage is not and has not ever been an exclusively religious term here. It is borrowing nothing. Adam and Eve, for that matter, were never “married” and the term was not used in describing their union.
I am trying to blaze a trail but your arguments are causing me to think harder along the way.
I respect this too. And I respect your disagreement.
 
You can read the opinion of the judge in the most recent case here: glad.org/uploads/docs/cases/perry-decision-8-4-10.pdf
I read as much of the Judges decision as I could, but since its pretty lengthy please allow me to sum up the fact that one of the main points in the argument for or against same-sex marriage was healthy child rearing.

Child rearing to me is ideally healthy if it includes the normal marital relations of man and a woman whom are married, that in turns produces offspring. That is not to say that all heterosexual couples raise their children healthy, but it sets the precedent that is what most couples attempt to do.

An objection could be that some heterosexual couples adopt children. That is true, however the child was still brought into to world by God and then a man and a woman in marital relations.

A man/man relationship has only the choice to adopt, thus leaving the responsiblity of the pregnancy and some length of child rearing to the original parents.

A woman/woman relationship could either adopt or use artificial insemination.
Many parents marry knowing that they cannot have or do not wish to have children. The state does not question this, has not questioned this in the past, and issues marriage certificates regardless.
To me this is your strongest argument. However, the marriage between sterile opposite-sex couples is still modeled after non-sterile opposite sex couples in a normal marriage that can produce offspring.
Marriage is not and has not ever been an exclusively religious term here. It is borrowing nothing. Adam and Eve, for that matter, were never “married” and the term was not used in describing their union.
I admit don’t know much about the special circumstances surrounding Adam & Eve but I do know that since Eve was created by God from the rib of Adam, that must have been a special circumstance. I will get back to that one.

If anything I have said is against the Catholic Church, let it be anathema.
 
…It’s not at all inconcevable that public will someday will call for Christian home-schooled kids to taken from their parents, or to pass laws denying Catholics, or Christians in general, professional licesure, or, (imagine the irony), to strip legal recongition from religious marriages. When that day comes, I’m thinking Christians will be wishing for a little “judicial activism.”
When this day comes, and it will (the writing is on the wall-for those with “Eyes of The Spirit” to see)—All will either be calling on God-or cursing Him.

You will see. Not “judicial Activism,” but “God.”

God Bless.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn
 
…Many parents marry knowing that they cannot have or do not wish to have children. The state does not question this, has not questioned this in the past, and issues marriage certificates regardless.
It is rare for a man and woman who cannot conceive, however-we have been shown just how not to act (Rachel in the OT), and how TO act (St. Joachim and Anne-the BVM’s parents) when God chooses not to send children.

Most today (I said most-not all) who cannot conceive-it is due to their having sex with others before the Marriage Covenant-was consummated.
Marriage is not and has not ever been an exclusively religious term here. It is borrowing nothing. Adam and Eve, for that matter, were never “married” and the term was not used in describing their union…
You are wrong-here. The Bible is explicit—>The first person you have sex with-is your Spouse in the Eyes of God.

Not rape or incest-attacks (don’t even go there).

Read Genesis. Jacob loved Rachel-worked for 7 years for her father-was tricked into marrying her sister Leah (consummated-therefore, married)-worked another 7 years for their father, in order to marry Rachel.

Back to being sterile-Read Genesis. Rachel couldn’t conceive. God gives us once again another lesson regarding this-there.

Click Here: New American Bible Online

Boy, for being a former Protestant (Sola Scriptural), you sure don’t know your Bible.

God Bless.
+Immaculate Heart of Mary, I place all my Trust in You!
Love, Dawn
 
…Child rearing to me is ideally healthy if it includes the normal marital relations of man and a woman whom are married, that in turns produces offspring. That is not to say that all heterosexual couples raise their children healthy, but it sets the precedent that is what most couples attempt to do…
A man cannot be a woman. A woman cannot be a man. We are different in oh so many ways! We were created this way!

Christ chose men to be His Priests. I know one of the reasons why—women can’t hold a secret like a man. Women are emotional, talk things out with their girlfriends. Men, on the other hand-when there’s a problem, go into their Cave (get quiet, don’t talk), solve their problem and come back out of their Cave.

If there’s one (important!) point I read in “Men are from Mars, Women from Venus” is this. I used to think my husband was mad at me when he got quiet. I read the book, and that point-is him. When he has something to solve (a “problem” not an “issue,” I am not Politically Correct)-he goes into his Cave (retracts into his thoughts), then comes out once he has solved the problem, and has decided on an answer.

Women talk it over with friends, husband/boyfriend, parents. We bounce things off others close and trusted by us, and then make a decision-thereby with support.

Women need support-but not men.

No matter what—a man cannot take the place of a woman, and a woman cannot take the place of a man. God’s Balance in the Family. We have different roles. Together, the Family is balanced.

<-This is another reason single mothers (or fathers) with a child or children—there’s a space in the family. Boys need their Father, to teach them how to be a man-a mother cannot show a son how, she can teach but cannot show by example.

Girls need their mothers to show them how to be wives and mothers-how to be feminine. A man cannot teach or show this, no how effeminate a man may act.

Ever notice in a homosexual couple-one usually takes the male role, and one the female role? They do. They are attempting to mimic what is “normal” what is “good.”

Doesn’t quite do it, because it is not the way God made it to work.

Try as they might…Falls short every time. Just another of God’s ways of showing us what is right and what is wrong.

God Bless.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn
 
Most Catholics reject(ed) the idea that not voting for Sarah Palin is sinful.
While Authoritarianism is that Black and White, the Church is more complex, despite some of its people.
We in the Pro-Life Movement prayed to God for a Pro-Life Candidate.

Doesn’t get much more Pro-Life than Sarah Palin’s life. Still married to the same first husband-after all these years. Five children. Daughter pregnant outside of marriage-doesn’t abort. Son diagnosed in the womb with Downs Syndrome-and she doesn’t abort.

Nope. Doesn’t get much more Pro-Life than that.

God answered, and she was rejected. Instead the most Pro-Death President in the History of our Country was voted in.

We will (and are beginning to) reap what we have sown.

We all must get down on our knees-before we are driven to them. Pray!!!

God Bless.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn
 
A man cannot be a woman. A woman cannot be a man. We are different in oh so many ways! We were created this way!

Christ chose men to be His Priests. I know one of the reasons why—women can’t hold a secret like a man. Women are emotional, talk things out with their girlfriends. Men, on the other hand-when there’s a problem, go into their Cave (get quiet, don’t talk), solve their problem and come back out of their Cave…
You need to meet more women and more men. These generalizations are often false in my experience.

And certainly have nothing to do with marriage and the 14th amendment. .
 
You need to meet more women and more men. These generalizations are often false in my experience.

And certainly have nothing to do with marriage and the 14th amendment. .
Lol! I need to meet more men and women? You’re funny!
I have Wisdom beyond your Comprehension.

Nothing to do with the marriage and the 14th amendment?
Equal protection under the law does not change a person’s personality. Movements. Thoughts. Actions.

No, the laws do not define who we are, that’s for sure. Let me explain it this way to you: While traveling around the world, when I was in a different Country, with different laws, I was still me.

Capiche~?

“Youth is wasted on the young.”
-George Bernard Shaw
Ah, yes.

God Bless.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn
 
You need to meet more women and more men. These generalizations are often false in my experience.

And certainly have nothing to do with marriage and the 14th amendment. .
Explain how they are false.
 
Lol! I need to meet more men and women? You’re funny!
I have Wisdom beyond your Comprehension.

Nothing to do with the marriage and the 14th amendment?
Equal protection under the law does not change a person’s personality. Movements. Thoughts. Actions.

No, the laws do not define who we are, that’s for sure. Let me explain it this way to you: While traveling around the world, when I was in a different Country, with different laws, I was still me.

Capiche~?

“Youth is wasted on the young.”
-George Bernard Shaw
Ah, yes.

God Bless.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::doh2:
 
Lol! I need to meet more men and women? You’re funny!
I have Wisdom beyond your Comprehension.

Nothing to do with the marriage and the 14th amendment?
Equal protection under the law does not change a person’s personality. Movements. Thoughts. Actions.

No, the laws do not define who we are, that’s for sure. Let me explain it this way to you: While traveling around the world, when I was in a different Country, with different laws, I was still me.

Capiche~?

“Youth is wasted on the young.”
-George Bernard Shaw
Ah, yes.

God Bless.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn
I don’t see how this response has anything to do with the topic, nor with your claim that women, by their nature, can’t hold secrets, and that men, by their nature, don’t discuss their feelings. But generalizations are too frequently wrong to be of any real value, and neither has anything to do with broadening marriage to legally include gays.
 
I don’t see how this response has anything to do with the topic, nor with your claim that women, by their nature, can’t hold secrets, and that men, by their nature, don’t discuss their feelings. But generalizations are too frequently wrong to be of any real value, and neither has anything to do with broadening marriage to legally include gays.
That is one of the major problems today, people in the left have lost the obvious value of generaliozations (which continue to hold great value).
 
I don’t see how this response has anything to do with the topic, nor with your claim that women, by their nature, can’t hold secrets, and that men, by their nature, don’t discuss their feelings. But generalizations are too frequently wrong to be of any real value, and neither has anything to do with broadening marriage to legally include gays.
I just can’t put it in simpler terms than that.

Pray and God will help you to discern.

Let me try another one for you: Men are built to do work (powerful upper bodies), women are built to bear children (lower bodies).

I am no where as strong as a man. I used to be able to press my own weight and ran miles each day. When I got married, my husband and I would wrestle, and he would take both of my wrists, hold them in one hand, and tickle me with the other.

I was stronger (we arm wrestled) and faster (running) than all my girlfriends.

A woman will never be as strong as a man.

We are different-get over it.

God made men to work, and women to bear children.
No woman can be as strong as a man. Men can never bear children.

God Bless.
+Jesus, I Trust In You.
Love, Dawn
 
I think it was already dead for the most part when the genocide of abortion started in the 70s. America has embraced a culture of death and Gay Marriage is only a side effect of that . :eek:
 
I just can’t put it in simpler terms than that.

Pray and God will help you to discern.

Let me try another one for you: Men are built to do work (powerful upper bodies), women are built to bear children (lower bodies).

I am no where as strong as a man. I used to be able to press my own weight and ran miles each day. When I got married, my husband and I would wrestle, and he would take both of my wrists, hold them in one hand, and tickle me with the other.

I was stronger (we arm wrestled) and faster (running) than all my girlfriends.

A woman will never be as strong as a man.

We are different-get over it.

God made men to work, and women to bear children.
No woman can be as strong as a man. Men can never bear children.

God Bless.
+Jesus, I Trust In You.
Love, Dawn
Wow.

I couldn’t even begin to discuss this logic, let alone try to tie it in to the legal world of marriage rights.
 
I just can’t put it in simpler terms than that.

Pray and God will help you to discern.

Let me try another one for you: Men are built to do work (powerful upper bodies), women are built to bear children (lower bodies).

I am no where as strong as a man. I used to be able to press my own weight and ran miles each day. When I got married, my husband and I would wrestle, and he would take both of my wrists, hold them in one hand, and tickle me with the other.

I was stronger (we arm wrestled) and faster (running) than all my girlfriends.

A woman will never be as strong as a man.

We are different-get over it.

God made men to work, and women to bear children.
No woman can be as strong as a man. Men can never bear children.

God Bless.
+Jesus, I Trust In You.
Love, Dawn
Women can’t work physical jobs, hour after hour, needing physical strength? You have got to be kidding. Good thing I don’t share this stuff with my wife.

But your earlier claim was that “Women can’t keep secrets.” And “Men don’t share feelings.” Now you have shifted to muscle mass, etc, and some bland generalizations there.

Can you get it back to gay marriage and the end of civilization? Does a strong, muscular woman mean the end of civilization, or something? A weak, smaller man?
 
Women can’t work physical jobs, hour after hour, needing physical strength? You have got to be kidding. Good thing I don’t share this stuff with my wife.

But your earlier claim was that “Women can’t keep secrets.” And “Men don’t share feelings.” Now you have shifted to muscle mass, etc, and some bland generalizations there.

Can you get it back to gay marriage and the end of civilization? Does a strong, muscular woman mean the end of civilization, or something? A weak, smaller man?
So, in your world, there really is no difference between men and women other than their genital makeups? Why don’t you just say that and make matters clear?
 
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