Gay Marriage and the End of Christian Civilization

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if irishpatrick is asking me something, I no longer see his posts and am not interested in his point of view. Others are free to converse with him as they wish.
 
larkin31 said:
asking me whether I have children or not and what I teach them is not a “tough” question. It is simply personal and irrelevant here, and we have been asked not to do this. I have already been suspended once. I am trying to adhere to the rules now. I ask you to do the same.
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the same?

larking i have been saying here the Truth and love goes together but you keep denying it.

now i ask you again and it is not irrelevant. do you do what you preach?

now, tell me. do you have children? do you tell them the Truth or you just love them and let them do whatever they wish?
 
larkin31 said:
if irishpatrick is asking me something, I no longer see his posts and am not interested in his point of view. Others are free to converse with him as they wish.
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In what way have I ever insulted you or said something that would make you respond in such a manner? I ask challenging questions, which you ignore each time, yet to my knowledge I have never once insulted you or attacked you.
 
wisdomseeker said:
the same?

larking i have been saying here the Truth and love goes together but you keep denying it.

now i ask you again and it is not irrelevant. do you do what you preach?

now, tell me. do you have children? do you tell them the Truth or you just love them and let them do whatever they wish?
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Let me pose your question in a more nuetral way:

If a person has children, should they teach them the truth with love, or should they just love that child?
 
larkin31 said:
As in nearly all cases, I think that the best approach is a strong mixture of love and truth. All I have been doing here is to highlight the initial point of charity, love, and self-analysis that the Bishops’ Council recommended. I am not trying to deny anything else, but rather just see what Catholics have to say about the Bishops’ acknowledgement that injustice and ill will are done to gays, and we all must be sure not to contribute to them.

Did you read the letter?
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here is my complete post again, from just higher on this page.

but this is the last time I will state it.
 
larkin31 said:
here is my complete post again, from just higher on this page.

but this is the last time I will state it.
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Yes, you believe in Love and Truth go together. I have no problem with that

If anything I have said is against the Catholic Church, let it be anathema.
 
irishpatrick said:
No, gay marriage simply means that Christianity is nearly dead in this country. It will never die out completely, but gay marriage is simply a sign of how weak the Christian faith is in the USA. If people were truly strong in their faith, gay marriage would not even be a remote possibility.
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I think what it does is destroy the notion that the USA ever was a “Christian nation”. Our Constitution was written by Deists, enshrined the idea that dark-skinned people were less than human, and specifically forbids the formation of a state religion

I, in fact, hold that it is this very fact that has contributed to the depth of faith in the American people. In European nations where Catholicism or Protestant denominationalisms are state-sanctioned or state-sponsored, secularism and church attendance has dropped very rapidly in the years following WWII. My contention is that while the peoples of those nations are de-facto members of their state-sponsored version of Christianity, in the USA, we choose the religion we belong to. I have chosen to be a member of the Catholic Church because I love her history and the depth of her theological insights and the spiritual wirings of her mystic saints. Were it not for the secular constitution we have, Catholicism wouldn’t be legal in this country, for the majority then were deeply prejudiced against Catholics. Because we have a constitutional republic, our spiritual (or actual) ancestors were protected from the majority, who wanted them out or dead or worse.

Now… what we may be proposing by saying that America is dying by allowing gay marriage is that the constitution that protected our people was good then, but now that it is protecting another group in the same way, it’s bad… hmmm…
 
PatrickSebast said:
I don’t really go for this doom and gloom stuff nor do I view homosexuality being the destroyer of society. The idea that we somehow jumped from an amazingly stable and faithful Christian society to some barren wasteland as a result of any singular event seems kind of silly and even a little detrimental to me. Gay marriage is not the first affront to social structures as God intended them, it is merely the newest, and perhaps a little harder to ignore than the previous things. There are goods and evils in the world, and choosing to ignore or downplay either is not really helping anything. As Christians, it is true that we can not ignore the presence of sin and evil in our world, but hope should always be one of our core qualities, we can’t forget that there are lots of good things going on in the world a long with the bad. At the very least let us not forget that there are countries besides the US out there, and some of them legalized homosexual marriages years ago. So far none of these nations is really showing signs of total collapse as a result.
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Yes, but lately it seems like one thing after another. The fact that the U.S. is catching up to other countries legalizing homosexuality is proof of this. I’ve heard recently that some parts of Europe are trying to legalize incest! That is my belief also that if a society starts legalizing sexual sin and immorally (starting with abortion) then legalizing one more thing, then one more thing, then one more thing, you can rest assured that immorality will continue to grow and bring the society down with it. It may not be just one thing or even a few, but more and more immorality that is permitted in a society, will eventually cause its destruction.
 
Los_Angeles said:
Do you mean religion? Have you ever tried arguing with a “cafeteria” Catholic?

“Christian Gays” (practicing gays) is a contradiction. You cannot be practicing sodomy and call it a good. Sodomy is evil.

Also looks like you are playing Judge when you say “poor excuse for a Christian.”

If anything I have said is against the Catholic Church, let it be anathema.
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There are Christian churches willing to marry gays who belive in Jesus Christ. I am not going to say they are not Christian, but you do. All I said was that having married gays next door shouldn’t affect your ability to be a Christian. And I used the word “probably.” So who is doing the judging?
 
ladybri77 said:
Yes, but lately it seems like one thing after another. The fact that the U.S. is catching up to other countries legalizing homosexuality is proof of this. I’ve heard recently that some parts of Europe are trying to legalize incest! That is my belief also that if a society starts legalizing sexual sin and immorally (starting with abortion) then legalizing one more thing, then one more thing, then one more thing, you can rest assured that immorality will continue to grow and bring the society down with it. It may not be just one thing or even a few, but more and more immorality that is permitted in a society, will eventually cause its destruction.
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But on a more positive note, I think it might bring the society down, but since God is in control, I don’t know if he would let it destroy itself as there are many believers who love the Lord, who are prayer warriors and who are living a holy life. There is a scripture, Genesis 18:22-33 that says:

"Then the men turned away from there and went toward Sodom, while Abraham was still standing before the LORD. Abraham came near and said, “Will You indeed sweep away the righteous with the wicked? Suppose there are fifty righteous within the city; will You indeed sweep it away and not spare the place for the sake of the fifty righteous who are in it? Far be it from You to do such a thing, to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous and the wicked are treated alike. Far be it from You! Shall not the Judge of all the earth deal justly?” So the LORD said, “If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare the whole place on their account.” And Abraham replied, “Now behold, I have ventured to speak to the Lord, although I am but dust and ashes. Suppose the fifty righteous are lacking five, will You destroy the whole city because of five?” And He said, “I will not destroy it if I find forty-five there.” He spoke to Him yet again and said, “Suppose forty are found there?” And He said, “I will not do it on account of the forty.” Then he said, “Oh may the Lord not be angry, and I shall speak; suppose thirty are found there?” And He said, “I will not do it if I find thirty there.” And he said, “Now behold, I have ventured to speak to the Lord; suppose twenty are found there?” And He said, “I will not destroy it on account of the twenty.” Then he said, “Oh may the Lord not be angry, and I shall speak only this once; suppose ten are found there?” And He said, “I will not destroy it on account of the ten.” As soon as He had finished speaking to Abraham the LORD departed, and Abraham returned to his place. (Genesis 18:22-33)

So maybe the Lord would do the same for today’s society, He would not destroy it or not let it destroy itself because of all the righteous people in it who Love the Lord and follow His ways, and answers our prayers. I think this is a very valid scripture for this topic.
 
irishpatrick said:
The era of satan should have ended 10 years ago. The Church teaches there will be no 1,000 year reign of Christ or satan.
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[Click Here:…Pope John Paul spoke of a new springtime in the Church that we would reach by “crossing the threshold of hope.” But before that springtime, there will be a winter. Before we cross that threshold to embrace hope, we must pass through the desert:
Code: 
Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers. The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth will unveil the "mystery of iniquity" in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh. —Catechism of the Catholic Church, n. 675...](http://www.markmallett.com/blog/?p=878)
.

Click Here:…We are now standing in the face of the greatest historical confrontation humanity has gone through. I do not think that wide circles of the American society or wide circles of the Christian community realize this fully. We are now facing the final confrontation between the Church and the anti-Church, of the Gospel and the anti-Gospel. This confrontation lies within the plans of divine providence. It is a trial which the whole Church… must take up. —Cardinal Karol Wojtyla (JOHN PAUL II), reprinted November 9, 1978, issue of The Wall Street Journal from a 1976 speech to the American Bishops…

Keep your eyes on the Pope.

God Bless.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn
 
chrisfrancis said:
As a lurker, I have followed this conversation through what are now 24 pages of posts. I have been fortunate to read many thought-provoking posts by Dawn in Texas and others who want to have a meaningful discussion on the topic of gay marriage and its effect on society. I am so proud that people are speaking up – loudly and clearly against the evils of gay marriage.

Thank you Dawn for your comments – I always enjoy reading them and have learned so much! You speak from the heart with compassion and love (and always in faithfulness to the Catechism). Pay no mind to antagonistic posters like Larkin31 who try to hijack the conversation to avoid the truth and mislead others. His posts are filled with sarcasm and venom and have added nothing of value to the discussion.

My eyes have been opened to how far reaching the gay agenda is – it is indeed a scary time in which we live!

God Bless
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I am humbled by your post, Chris-thank you. I have a lot to learn, but I’m trying.

God Bless.
+Jesus, I Trust In You.
Love, Dawn
 
Los_Angeles said:
When you look at the fact that this country already has legalized abortion, and add to it a legalized instution allowing sodomy, it shows that a Christian society is holding on by “a thread” at best (in my opinion).

If anything I have said is against the Catholic Church, let it be anathema.
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Add to this, “creating.” Man is now “creating” in petri dishes-and also mixing different animal species’ DNA, and mixing animal and plant DNA.

Creating.

Woe. Pray!

God Bless.
+Jesus, I Trust In You!
Love, Dawn
 
ladybri77 said:
But on a more positive note, I think it might bring the society down, but since God is in control, I don’t know if he would let it destroy itself as there are many believers who love the Lord, who are prayer warriors and who are living a holy life. There is a scripture, Genesis 18:22-33 that says:

"Then the men turned away from there and went toward Sodom, while Abraham was still standing before the LORD. Abraham came near and said, “Will You indeed sweep away the righteous with the wicked? Suppose there are fifty righteous within the city; will You indeed sweep it away and not spare the place for the sake of the fifty righteous who are in it? Far be it from You to do such a thing, to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous and the wicked are treated alike. Far be it from You! Shall not the Judge of all the earth deal justly?” So the LORD said, “If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare the whole place on their account.” And Abraham replied, “Now behold, I have ventured to speak to the Lord, although I am but dust and ashes. Suppose the fifty righteous are lacking five, will You destroy the whole city because of five?” And He said, “I will not destroy it if I find forty-five there.” He spoke to Him yet again and said, “Suppose forty are found there?” And He said, “I will not do it on account of the forty.” Then he said, “Oh may the Lord not be angry, and I shall speak; suppose thirty are found there?” And He said, “I will not do it if I find thirty there.” And he said, “Now behold, I have ventured to speak to the Lord; suppose twenty are found there?” And He said, “I will not destroy it on account of the twenty.” Then he said, “Oh may the Lord not be angry, and I shall speak only this once; suppose ten are found there?” And He said, “I will not destroy it on account of the ten.” As soon as He had finished speaking to Abraham the LORD departed, and Abraham returned to his place. (Genesis 18:22-33)

So maybe the Lord would do the same for today’s society, He would not destroy it or not let it destroy itself because of all the righteous people in it who Love the Lord and follow His ways, and answers our prayers. I think this is a very valid scripture for this topic.
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I was at work today, thinking about this thread, and remembered this passage, which was the sunday mass reading just a couple weeks ago. Thanks for bringing it up. 👍
 
“Oh may the Lord not be angry, and I shall speak only this once; suppose ten are found there?” And He said, "I will not destroy it on account of the ten
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You all MUST agree that there are 10 good people, even in your hated town of San Francisco (which I have been to, and absolutely LOVE. St Francis is there, among the overwhelming number of poor and homeless, trust me.
 
If there are 10 worthy people in SF, surely there are in every other city in America… And if we’re talking a matter of percentages, the 10 people in Sodom weigh even more heavily. According to one archeological site I looked up accuracyingenesis.com/sodom.html the population of Sodom at the time of its destruction was 600-1200. even with the most conservative estimate, that makes the 10 people only 1.7% of the population. If you go with the 1200, we’re talking .8% of the population… surely 2 percent of the US are worthy enough to stay God’s hand.
 
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