Gay Masses Continue in Archdiocese of Westminster

[PaulinVA]

Why wouldn’t someone who is gay and chaste identify with it?

Someone who is gay and chaste is no different from someone who is straight and chaste. They can worship with the rest of us. They are not special in any way.

People who are a certain ethnicity sometimes go to a Mass that is dedicated to who they are. Why can’t a chaste Catholic except who they are and go to a Mass that shows them A LOT of other Catholics who are also chaste. It would help them not have sex because it would show them that they are not alone in this.

Well, I doubt that this is what the Mass is all about. Why in the world have a gay Mass for chaste people? How about a Mass for people struggling with masturbation? Adultery? It makes no sense to identify a special Mass based on people’s occasion to sin.

A Catholic Mass is not wallowing in the homosexual lifestyle. It is showing a side of Catholicism that is open and accepting.
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No, it shows an acceptance of a lifestyle that is disordered. As I said before, a gay chaste person is no different than a straight chaste person. No need for a special Mass.

 

[beth40n2]

It is not a sin to be gay per say, having same sex attractions. The sin comes in when a person acts on those attractions. So why would we have a gay mass?

 

[ConstantineTG]

It is not a sin to be gay per say, having same sex attractions. The sin comes in when a person acts on those attractions. So why would we have a gay mass?

I say its okay to have Mass for gays. Truly its hard to be in their situation, what they desire is something that is morally wrong.

But a Mass to celebrate being gay? That is just so wrong, and is contrary to what the Mass is.

 

[Aboveallbereal]

I wish people would stop accepting the linguistic convention whereby we define people as “gay”. They ar enot “gay” or “homosexual”. They ar epeople with a disordered relationship with their sexuality who may want to identify themselves by reference to that disorder but Christians should not accept that deterministic denial of free will and the opportunity to use it.

 

[Adam1986]

“Perfectly fine to be gay” – I think what you are trying to say is that it is no sin to have SSA (same-sex attraction) if you are not acting on it. Am I interpreting your words correctly?

Yes.

But “perfectly fine” – not exactly. Not trying to split hairs here. It is more of an affliction, a cross, like alcoholism. This is not a popular view, but it is Church teaching. And we do want to help alcoholics, but not by buying them a bottle of booze.

Having a Mass for gay people is not the same as having a Catholic Church sponsored circuit party. Btw I don’t think you could find may people on here who would have a problem with a Mass for alcoholics. IMO many people here and in the Church would think it’s a great thing to HELP the alcoholics and give them spiritual strength and no one would say that by having a Mass to help alcoholics you are encouraging them to drink. In fact you are doing just the opposite.

So again, to have a Mass that would celebrate “gayness” itself wouldn’t work – but to have a Mass to provide spiritual strength for those with SSA living chastely, and recognizing them as our brothers and sisters in Christ despite their affliction – that is more accurate and truthful.

It may not happen in the near future given all the controversy of this issue, but it’d be nice if the day would come. And again, say there was a Courage retreat – they’d have Mass for the participants, I would think. Just like if there were a similar retreat, with Mass offered, for recovering alcoholics.

But again, we run into the difficulty – not a moral difficulty, but a practical one. Many alcoholics and many with SSA have had to hide even if they are no longer practicing the sinful behavior, due to stigma. So they might be reluctant to be the focus of attention among a majority who don’t have their affliction. It depends on the individual.

Having SSA is not, therefore, the same as belonging to an ethnic or national group; those are cultural. Having SSA is more unique.

Check out the Courage website and Fr. John Harvey’s books for further clarification.

 

[Adam1986]

No, because there is nothing disordered about anyone’s ethnicity.

The Church does not say “it’s perfectly fine to be gay”. She says that homosexual inclinations are objectively disordered.

I never said the Church says that’s it’s fine to be unchaste and gay. I said the Church has no problem with a person being gay in the sense that they are attracted to the same sex.

 

[Adam1986]

Someone who is gay and chaste is no different from someone who is straight and chaste. They can worship with the rest of us. They are not special in any way.

There are often Masses for young people. Children, teenagers, etc. They are not special in any way either. I don’t hear anyone complaining about children’s Masses.

Well, I doubt that this is what the Mass is all about. Why in the world have a gay Mass for chaste people? How about a Mass for people struggling with masturbation? Adultery? It makes no sense to identify a special Mass based on people’s occasion to sin.
Why not? And why think that the Mass is not for chaste people. It is a Catholic Mass. I doubt many priests out there would have Masses for gay people if they knew the gay people were unchaste.

No, it shows an acceptance of a lifestyle that is disordered. As I said before, a gay chaste person is no different than a straight chaste person. No need for a special Mass.

What about it shows an acceptance of a lifestyle that is disordered? No one said it’s a Mass for married gay people or gay couples.

 

[Adam1986]

It is not a sin to be gay per say, having same sex attractions. The sin comes in when a person acts on those attractions. So why would we have a gay mass?

Maybe having a gay Mass would help a gay person with their temptations? Maybe the gay Mass is on Wednesday and they need that extra Mass to not act on their temptations? It might give them the spiritual strength to help them stay chaste.

 

[Adam1986]

I say its okay to have Mass for gays. Truly its hard to be in their situation, what they desire is something that is morally wrong.

But a Mass to celebrate being gay? That is just so wrong, and is contrary to what the Mass is.

The Mass doesn’t celebrate being gay. It’s just a Mass for those who are gay. There’s a HUGE difference.

 

[po18guy]

I don’t see anything wrong with that at all. There’s nothing wrong with having a Mass dedicated to LGBTQ. If anything it is a GREAT thing LGBTQ people to see other people like themselves celebrating Mass and the Catholic faith.

There’s nothing wrong with being gay according to the Catholic Church only acting on it. So how can it be scandal if no one is promoting sex? Just being who they are and how God made them. I think it’s a great thing, I hope more churches do this.

I am a gay man myself, for what it’s worth.

The problem is that the Seattle masses were a celebration of homosexuality. What about straight masses? Does that strike anyone as well-ordered? There was no call to celibacy or repentance, only an observance of their status. It is disordered.

 

[po18guy]

The Mass doesn’t celebrate being gay. It’s just a Mass for those who are gay. There’s a HUGE difference.

We already have the mass. It is for all sin and all crosses that we bear.

 

[mdgspencer]

I see no great problem with having chaste homosexuals going to mass as a group. However, as the news article indicates, the group at these “gay” masses oppose Catholic teaching. They do not believe in being chaste.
I would oppose special masses for adulterers and armed robbers, even more so if they promoted the positive value of their activities during their mass going. The same for such “gay” people.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that homosexual acts are never to be tolerated and that they are sinful.

 

[diggerdomer]

The category of Immoral Theology doesn`t exist, as yet.

My point was…are you interested in discussing (liturgically and sacramentally) the Mass…or (morally) the issue of homosexuality? Just looking for clarification.

 

[diggerdomer]

I see no great problem with having chaste homosexuals going to mass as a group. However, as the news article indicates, the group at these “gay” masses oppose Catholic teaching. They do not believe in being chaste.
I would oppose special masses for adulterers and armed robbers, even more so if they promoted the positive value of their activities during their mass going. The same for such “gay” people.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that homosexual acts are never to be tolerated and that they are sinful.

Which raises the bigger question of whether the Catholic Church (and Mass) is a “school for sinners” or a “sanctuary for saints”

 

[po18guy]

I see no great problem with having chaste homosexuals going to mass as a group. However, as the news article indicates, the group at these “gay” masses oppose Catholic teaching. They do not believe in being chaste.
I would oppose special masses for adulterers and armed robbers, even more so if they promoted the positive value of their activities during their mass going. The same for such “gay” people.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that homosexual acts are never to be tolerated and that they are sinful.

Indeed. “Special” masses only foster division in the Body of Christ. We are all sinners. We are not to be proud of our sin, or allow our sin to define us, since we are new creations in Christ. Is one cross to bear more admirable than another? We are each assigned the cross which, if we choose to bear it faithfully, is our admission to eternal life. Somehow, certain groups have been defined as victims in need special attention. Well, they received that attention, just as we did, almost 2,000 years ago. Without it, none of us would stand a snowball’s chance…

 

[Adam1986]

The problem is that the Seattle masses were a celebration of homosexuality. What about straight masses? Does that strike anyone as well-ordered? There was no call to celibacy or repentance, only an observance of their status. It is disordered.

How is is a CELEBRATION of homosexuality?

And a single-straight Mass IMO would be totally fine. If someone feels as if they are struggling with being chaste, why not offer them an extra Mass to go to so they can see they are not the only one who struggles with what they are feeling. It might be difference between them having sex or not. Why would anyone on here be against that?

 

[Adam1986]

We already have the mass. It is for all sin and all crosses that we bear.

What’s wrong with there being a mid-week Mass for this issue?

 

[Adam1986]

I see no great problem with having chaste homosexuals going to mass as a group. However, as the news article indicates, the group at these “gay” masses oppose Catholic teaching. They do not believe in being chaste.
I would oppose special masses for adulterers and armed robbers, even more so if they promoted the positive value of their activities during their mass going. The same for such “gay” people.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that homosexual acts are never to be tolerated and that they are sinful.

Can I please ask you to quote where it says that these gay people are against what the Catholic Church says and are having sex?

I don’t remember reading that. But if I missed that then I don’t think the Catholic Church should have a Mass for them. But I still stand by my opinion that the Catholic Church should be happy to provide a Mass for chaste gay people.

 

[Adam1986]

Indeed. “Special” masses only foster division in the Body of Christ. We are all sinners. We are not to be proud of our sin, or allow our sin to define us, since we are new creations in Christ. Is one cross to bear more admirable than another? We are each assigned the cross which, if we choose to bear it faithfully, is our admission to eternal life. Somehow, certain groups have been defined as victims in need special attention. Well, they received that attention, just as we did, almost 2,000 years ago. Without it, none of us would stand a snowball’s chance…

What is your feeling on a teenager only Mass then?

 

[po18guy]

How is is a CELEBRATION of homosexuality?

And a single-straight Mass IMO would be totally fine. If someone feels as if they are struggling with being chaste, why not offer them an extra Mass to go to so they can see they are not the only one who struggles with what they are feeling. It might be difference between them having sex or not. Why would anyone on here be against that?

The point being that you already have a mass tailored for you, and I have a mass tailored for me. It is called the mass. Our faith is about unity, not arbitrary division.