Gay patient says Catholic chaplain refused him last rites

[SMGS127]

It’s revisionism. It’s from a minority of a minority who say there is nothing immoral about homosexual acts. The fact of the matter is that homosexuality throughout history has been a lifestyle of promiscuity, furtive sexual encounters, and secrecy. Why? Because it was frowned on by polite society. Now homosexuality is trying to make inroads into polite society and that means they have to excise that image of bathhouses, glory holes, prostitution, leather bars, and the like. It’s supposed to make us react by saying, “gee, they sure are nice people after all, why can’t they just get married?”

No, gay people are mostly just “get to work, pay your bills, take care of your family” types of people. I don’t see how that changes the nature of their sin, since their relationship is contrary to natural law, but there’s no reason to act as if gay people live some imaginary mythical club lifestyle. I would, in fact, say YOU were the one doing revisionism. Should I bring up the fact that, throughout history, homosexuality was mostly secretive because it meant being at high risk of death if found out?

But thank you for pointing out exactly what a gay person thinks a religious person feels about them when they use the term “the gay lifestyle.” Your post is EXACTLY what I mean. You make all sorts of incredible, incorrect assumptions about gay people. Have you experienced the community firsthand? And by that, I mean the actual community, not a couple individual people? The “white parties” and bathhouses are exceedingly rare, and only partaken in by the most fallen of gay men, just as brothels are visited by the most fallen of straight men.

 

[Elizium23]

Have you experienced the community firsthand?

Yes, yes, I have.

 

[SMGS127]

Yes, yes, I have.

You clearly have not, since what you believe is not true of the community. But do you care to expound further on your experiences with the community, so that I can at least know why you do believe it?

 

[Cider]

You clearly have not, since what you believe is not true of the community. But do you care to expound further on your experiences with the community, so that I can at least know why you do believe it?

Who made you the authority to accuse another poster?

 

[Lormar]

You clearly have not, since what you believe is not true of the community. But do you care to expound further on your experiences with the community, so that I can at least know why you do believe it?

Why should he? No matter what he says, you will try to discredit him.

 

[SMGS127]

Who made you the authority to accuse another poster?

What am I accusing Elizium of? I am saying that his experience is not consistent with my extensive history with the gay community, so I’m curious why he/she believes what he/she does. Many people claim they know the “gay community” because they went to a parade once or have a gay neighbor who has questionable friends who are also gay, etc. I’d honestly like to know if Elizium’s knowledge is deeper than that.

Why should he? No matter what he says, you will try to discredit him.

Assumptions! That’s not my intention at all. My intention is to figure out why someone believes something I know not to be true. I am very interested in knowing what minorities of the community do that give the community a bad name in order to help increase dialogue between the Church and the community.

 

[Lormar]

Assumptions! That’s not my intention at all. My intention is to figure out why someone believes something I know not to be true. I am very interested in knowing what minorities of the community do that give the community a bad name in order to help increase dialogue between the Church and the community.

Are you saying that you do not know what homosexuals have done to give the “community” a bad name?

 

[Cider]

The bottom line is obvious in the article, directly from the mouth of the accuser

Plishka said that a few days after the incident he called the Basilica of the National Shrine, where he has attended Sunday noon Mass for at least a decade. He didn’t know any priests but asked for one on duty to call him back, Plishka said. The priest agreed with the chaplain, Plishka said.

“He said, he can’t give you [Communion] if you continue that lifestyle, if you’re an active participant,” he said.

So he, called another priest explained his situation and that priest agreed with the chaplain and according to the accuser stated the included quote, “that you can’t receive communion, if you continue that lifestyle, if you’re an active participant”.

Not sure where the controversy is. IMO the very fact that he went to the press to whine about being refused by 2 priests and had it explained to him says a lot. As does the fact that he admits he verbally attacked the chaplain. Sorry but people that have repentant hearts don’t verbally attack priests and then whine to the press about it.

 

[Cider]

Why should he? No matter what he says, you will try to discredit him.

The argument over the term lifestyle, isn’t applicable to the thread topic anyway.

 

[SMGS127]

Are you saying that you do not know what homosexuals have done to give the “community” a bad name?

I know a couple isolated incidents. I also know of the MSM’s incorrect portrayal of gays as naked people running around in parades. I also know of the “club scene” portrayal of gays that I’ve found to be neither different nor more prevalent than straight clubs in reality. I’d like to know whether his experience was deeper than the typical response I get when I ask the question. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard “well I have this neighbor” or “look at these horrible pictures!” Now, I’m not saying Elizium is doing that, especially since he/she says he/she has personal experience, but I’d like it expounded to know whether it was actually something on a larger scale, or whether it was yet another isolated incident.

 

[glendab]

Okay. It is time to share a story of a friend of mine. He was gay. He has died. He died of AIDS. He died while I was preparing for Baptism and helped me learn about the Church. His name was Jack (not his real name). I loved him. He was a good friend.

When I originally met him he was a fallen away Catholic and was struggling with his homosexuality. It had destroyed his marriage and taken him from his family and was the source of his need for alcohol. He became an alcoholic. He’d had a tragic life. He shared this with me as we were friends. He made a decision to return to the Church and knowing how serious his sins were, he decided to go “downtown” (to the Cathedral) for Confession if they’d allow it and so he went. At that time there was a program put on by Cardinal Bevilacqua that would help Jack become reconciled to the Church. He knew it would take some time and work. He went through with all they asked of him, classes, counseling, reconciliation with his wife and children, and a few other things. He was given Absolution and was very excited to receive Communion and did so for the first time from the hands of the Cardinal himself at a private Mass at the Cathedral. His family was all there and joked he’d get to the Eucharist before I would, which he did.

It wasn’t long after all this that he became too sick from his HIV infection to do much else, but he was at peace with God and that was all that mattered to him. He was sorry for what he’d put everyone through with his choices and was doing the best he could to amend the things he did. He was a changed man and inspired me as I was new to all of this. He was truly sorry for his sins and humbled and knew he had work to do to set things right with God. He gave up being a gay man and all that went with it. He had to to receive and he told me so. He knew that from growing up Catholic. It isn’t any different today.

The comparison with Jack’s brave acceptance of his death and his work to be reconciled to God and His Church before he passed and the arrogant expectation of the man in this story is as different as night and day. Jack died at peace with God and I know I’ll see him in Heaven because he did the right thing and exchanged Hell for Purgatory. He was no Saint, but he was brave and inspiring. I loved him. He was my friend. His AIDS took him before my first Easter as a Catholic and I was sad he wasn’t there to see me get Baptized. But he was still in my heart.

Glenda

 

[Robert_Bay]

MODERATOR NOTE

Please charitably discuss the issues, not each other

 

[Hopey]

Washington Hospital Center said officials there have “taken our patient’s concerns very seriously. While the priest is not an employee but rather is assigned by the Archdiocese to provide spiritual care at our hospital, it is our expectation that all who support our patients adhere to our values. This includes offering pastoral and spiritual support to all patients, regardless of their faith traditions. Our hospital was recognized last year as a ‘Leader in LGBT Healthcare Equality’ by the Human Rights Campaign Foundation. We want to hold true to this important commitment to the LGBT community and to all of our patients. Our Department of Spiritual Care has reinforced our expectations with this particular priest and his superiors.”

hmm.
I could see this becoming something that is very bad for those on their deathbed wanting to reconcile with God. Especially if a certain group, Catholic priests, get black listed.

 

[TCEL]

Washington Hospital Center said officials there have “taken our patient’s concerns very seriously. While the priest is not an employee but rather is assigned by the Archdiocese to provide spiritual care at our hospital, it is our expectation that all who support our patients adhere to our values. This includes offering pastoral and spiritual support to all patients, regardless of their faith traditions. Our hospital was recognized last year as a ‘Leader in LGBT Healthcare Equality’ by the Human Rights Campaign Foundation. We want to hold true to this important commitment to the LGBT community and to all of our patients. Our Department of Spiritual Care has reinforced our expectations with this particular priest and his superiors.”

hmm.
I could see this becoming something that is very bad for those on their deathbed wanting to reconcile with God. Especially if a certain group, Catholic priests, get black listed.

What do they mean by this? Eek. What can they really do about it, practically? If they stand by their statement, I see no logical outcome that doesn’t include vetting every chaplain for his views on SSM and SSA. Truly?

 

[Hopey]

What do they mean by this? Eek. What can they really do about it, practically? If they stand by their statement, I see no logical outcome that doesn’t include vetting every chaplain for his views on SSM and SSA. Truly?

I thought the same. Although the hospital I guess could question them, a priest still has an obligation to the flock(care of souls). So, it should be interesting how they handle this. Or what the diocese told them.

 

[zz912]

Plishka said that a few days after the incident he called the Basilica of the National Shrine, where he has attended Sunday noon Mass for at least a decade. He didn’t know any priests

How is this even possible? You attend Mass for a decade at one parish, and you don’t know the name of ONE priest???

That can’t possibly be true.

 

[St_Francis]

Okay. It is time to share a story of a friend of mine. He was gay. He has died. He died of AIDS. He died while I was preparing for Baptism and helped me learn about the Church. His name was Jack (not his real name). I loved him. He was a good friend.

When I originally met him he was a fallen away Catholic and was struggling with his homosexuality. It had destroyed his marriage and taken him from his family and was the source of his need for alcohol. He became an alcoholic. He’d had a tragic life. He shared this with me as we were friends. He made a decision to return to the Church and knowing how serious his sins were, he decided to go “downtown” (to the Cathedral) for Confession if they’d allow it and so he went. At that time there was a program put on by Cardinal Bevilacqua that would help Jack become reconciled to the Church. He knew it would take some time and work. He went through with all they asked of him, classes, counseling, reconciliation with his wife and children, and a few other things. He was given Absolution and was very excited to receive Communion and did so for the first time from the hands of the Cardinal himself at a private Mass at the Cathedral. His family was all there and joked he’d get to the Eucharist before I would, which he did.

It wasn’t long after all this that he became too sick from his HIV infection to do much else, but he was at peace with God and that was all that mattered to him. He was sorry for what he’d put everyone through with his choices and was doing the best he could to amend the things he did. He was a changed man and inspired me as I was new to all of this. He was truly sorry for his sins and humbled and knew he had work to do to set things right with God. He gave up being a gay man and all that went with it. He had to to receive and he told me so. He knew that from growing up Catholic. It isn’t any different today.

The comparison with Jack’s brave acceptance of his death and his work to be reconciled to God and His Church before he passed and the arrogant expectation of the man in this story is as different as night and day. Jack died at peace with God and I know I’ll see him in Heaven because he did the right thing and exchanged Hell for Purgatory. He was no Saint, but he was brave and inspiring. I loved him. He was my friend. His AIDS took him before my first Easter as a Catholic and I was sad he wasn’t there to see me get Baptized. But he was still in my heart.

Glenda

What an inspiring story of redemption and forgiveness! And what an amazing entry into the Church for you! Thank you for sharing this with us.

Eternal rest grant unto Thy servant “Jack,” O Lord; Let Thy perpetual light shine upon him, and may he rest in peace–Amen

 

[zab]

Fulton Sheen: The Sacrament of Confession
youtube.com/watch?v=jgFndZIH568&list=PLf1U65eluRhqAYHvEoE02ZcIi28IlcpLL&index=32

 

[zab]

It is good to hear conversion stories like the one that Glenda shared that are uplifting and give hope to those who are struggling, just like the gay patient who is the subject of this thread. But we need to understand where he is at now and not compare him to someone who is no longer in denial of their sin. I want to share this beautiful video of the late Archbishop Fulton Sheen on the Sacrament of Confession.
youtube.com/watch?v=jgFndZIH568&list=PLf1U65eluRhqAYHvEoE02ZcIi28IlcpLL&index=32

 

[gracepoole]

Have you experienced the community firsthand?

Yes, yes, I have.

:ehh: