Gay patient says Catholic chaplain refused him last rites

[markomalley]

How is this even possible? You attend Mass for a decade at one parish, and you don’t know the name of ONE priest???

That can’t possibly be true.

Actually, at the National Shrine, that is very believable.

First, the National Shrine is not a parish. They don’t have the normal parish activities that occur during the week. Though I am not saying that it never happens, in going there probably at least once every couple of months for the last 15 years, I have never seen nor heard of any infant baptisms, no baptisms / confirmations during the Easter Vigil Mass, etc., like a parish would have.

Msgr Rossi is not the pastor of the Shrine…he is the rector of the Shrine. There are 3 other priests who are assigned there and perform day to day duties; however, most of the priests who celebrate daily / Sunday masses there are either retired priests, students studying for advanced degrees at the local theological institutes in the area (e.g., CUA, Dominican House of Studies, etc.) or teachers at the local Catholic universities.

The noon Mass on Sunday is celebrated in the “Great Upper Church” (if you’ve ever seen a Mass from DC on EWTN, chances are about 99.9% that it comes from there). When they process, they process from the sacristy (located on the Sacred Heart side of the sanctuary), down a side aisle about 1/2 way through the nave, then approach the sanctuary from the center aisle. When they recess, they reverse the process. There is no “meet and greet” after the Mass (as we normally see after Mass in a parish church), nor is there coffee and donuts in the parish center afterwards. (If you want coffee and something to eat, you can go to the cafeteria downstairs and buy breakfast or lunch…)

The point is that, while I would be a bit surprised that he didn’t know Msgr Rossi’s name (or Msgr – now Bishop – Bransfield, Rossi’s predecessor), it is fully within the realm of believability.

 

[zab]

I hope this isn’t behind the paywall:

washingtonpost.com/local/gay-patient-says-catholic-chaplain-refused-him-last-rites/2014/02/19/35d163f6-99b1-11e3-80ac-63a8ba7f7942_story.html?hpid=z4

I don’t know what to think of these things.

This story reminds me of a loving parent who must say no at times to their little ones. Mother says no, not because she hates her son but because she love him and cares for him and wants no harm to come to him. After reading this story and the quotes coming from the patient, there is no reason not to side with the priest. He cares for the patient and he said that he would pray for him. The patient’s outburst, calling the priest names that he cannot mention to the reporter are not indications that he is without sin. Now he is scared and afraid for his soul if he should die without the sacraments. He believes in the sacraments, he says. This is a good thing! He believes that receiving the sacraments before his death will help him get to heaven if he is in a state of mortal sin. What good would it have done to receive the sacraments unworthily and allow him to remain in a state of denial? This patient is not the first to feel abandoned and to feel that things are not fair or that no one knows what it is like to be in their situation. If the priest had given him what he wanted then he may never have tried to be reconciled to God and be able to join the multitudes of people who have experienced God’s merciful love. I’d be more concerned if the patient was not scared. He needs our prayers. Please watch the Fulton Sheen video: on the Sacrament of Confession

 

[Country_Gal]

This is an interesting story. We don’t know exactly what occurred. Some homosexuals are disrespectful of religions that state homosexual behavior is a sin. It’s worrisome that, now the hospital is stepping in and telling a priest how to practice his faith.

It could be that the priest over-reacted. The man went to another priest who backed the first priest up. I don’t know. Would he have withheld communion from someone who had used birth control and didn’t think it was a sin? That’s very common in the Catholic Church? Is he picking on homosexuality as an especially reprehensible sin?

 

[Joe_5859]

Here’s a blog post on this story from the NCRegister:

Gay Man Refused Last Rites?

In this article, the author references another article from a gay news source (warning: one use of vulgarity) which gives even more background, including the fact that he wound up receiving communion from a Methodist minister instead. That does not strike me as the actions of someone who understands the Eucharist very well.

I’m certainly in no position to judge him. But I’m also in no position to judge the priest. It seems doubtful to me that the priest made the wrong call.

 

[Country_Gal]

Here’s a blog post on this story from the NCRegister:

Gay Man Refused Last Rites?

In this article, the author references another article from a gay news source (warning: one use of vulgarity) which gives even more background, including the fact that he wound up receiving communion from a Methodist minister instead. That does not strike me as the actions of someone who understands the Eucharist very well.

I’m certainly in no position to judge him. But I’m also in no position to judge the priest. It seems doubtful to me that the priest made the wrong call.

Interesting. I wonder how this fellow was coming across? It sounds like he was rather hostile. I’ve never seen a lot of strong anti-gay sentiments in the Catholic Church like you hear from some fundamentalist ones. I never heard homosexuality even mentioned in a homily.

 

[PaulinVA]

Hopey quoted MedStar: Our hospital was recognized last year as a ‘Leader in LGBT Healthcare Equality’ by the Human Rights Campaign Foundation. We want to hold true to this important commitment to the LGBT community and to all of our patients. Our Department of Spiritual Care has reinforced our expectations with this particular priest and his superiors.”

The only thing I can infer from this is that MedStar wants the Catholic Church to replace it’s beliefs with those of the MedStar religion. Kinda strange.

 

[manualman]

Would he have withheld communion from someone who had used birth control and didn’t think it was a sin?

It used to be true that you could easily find a priest who would tell you in confession that that wasn’t even a sin that needed confessing. Happily, those days are very nearly drawing to a close and most priests are faithful enough to the church to tell people who confess something what the church really teaches about that. They ARE supposed to withhold absolution if the penitent admits to a sin, but also admits to being unrepentant and intends to continue committing it.

Precious few priests (if any) will grill you in the confessional “have you committed the sin of contraception?” But then again, it doesn’t sound from the story like this priest asked the man if he was gay, the man volunteered it. At that point, you simply have to deal with the elephant in the room.

 

[Corki]

This is an interesting story. We don’t know exactly what occurred. Some homosexuals are disrespectful of religions that state homosexual behavior is a sin. It’s worrisome that, now the hospital is stepping in and telling a priest how to practice his faith.

It could be that the priest over-reacted. The man went to another priest who backed the first priest up. I don’t know. Would he have withheld communion from someone who had used birth control and didn’t think it was a sin? That’s very common in the Catholic Church? Is he picking on homosexuality as an especially reprehensible sin?

Yes, if the person confessed it but was unrepentant, and currently using birth control, it would be a reason to withhold absolution.

Yes, it’s a common sin.

Yes, the priest could have over-reacted. And yes, living out a homosexual lifestyle is an especially reprehensible sin. That doesn’t mean he was “picking on” the man.

 

[Cider]

Here’s a blog post on this story from the NCRegister:

Gay Man Refused Last Rites?

In this article, the author references another article from a gay news source (warning: one use of vulgarity) which gives even more background, including the fact that he wound up receiving communion from a Methodist minister instead. That does not strike me as the actions of someone who understands the Eucharist very well.

I’m certainly in no position to judge him. But I’m also in no position to judge the priest. It seems doubtful to me that the priest made the wrong call.

He sounds like he is very poorly catechized with little Catholic understanding of the Eucharist.

 

[Joe_5859]

He sounds like he is very poorly catechized with little Catholic understanding of the Eucharist.

He’s certainly not the only one in that club.

 

[Cider]

link

“They have a priest on call,” he said. “So he called me back and said he agreed with what the priest at the hospital did. He said unless you’re willing to change and basically become somebody you’re not, then this priest had every right to do that, to refuse you communion and to refuse you the last rites of the church,” Plishka said.

Now, Plishka said, he decided to speak out about his experience with the hope that it might make a difference.

“I think there comes a time when as a gay man you have to take a stand, you know? It’s just intolerable to be treated like you’re nothing. And I could have died. And all I did was ask for the rites of the church that are due to me. But because I’m gay I’m denied that.”

His words clearly speak for themselves. It’s obvious he is unrepentant in his lifestyle choices.

 

[LisaA]

This is silly. Clearly what we have here is a patient in the hospital who asked for Anointing of the Sick. When the patient is conscious, a good priest will also offer to hear his confession and give him communion.

It doesn’t take a genius at reading between the lines to see what happened. The guy made a confession and as part of that admitted certain sexual sins and also admitted that he’s not sorry for committing them and won’t resolve not to commit them again. At that point, the priest can’t give him absolution and it’s a matter of CHARITY that the priest then doesn’t give him communion. Giving communion to a person he KNOWS is in a state of obstinate sin would be like feeding him poison. It’s not a magic cookie, it’s Christ himself. The bible says clearly how harmful it can be to receive knowingly unworthily.

Now people are puzzled why the priest won’t tell his side of the story? He CAN’T, it’s part of the seal of the confessional.

This is very basic stuff! Try your own priest. Tell him it isn’t real, but hypothetical. Ask him if you confessed to being in an ongoing adulterous relationship, but admitted that you had no intention of breaking it off if he’d give you absolution, communion and anointing of the sick (assuming you were a hospital patient). He’d say “no.”

I smell a rat so to speak. I suspect the patient of making an issue of his homosexuality, his lack of repentance and his intent to continue to sin in the future…right before he DEMANDS the Eucharist. It’s much like the case of the Lesbian woman who made an issue of being “out and proud” to the priest at her mother’s funeral, then demanding the priest give her communion…which he refused and HE was the one given a reprimand.

As noted above, try this with your priest and see how far it goes. When I was going through RCIA our priest explained that a lot of people think “oh those Catholics, they sin, then go to Confession so they are absolved and can go out and sin again…” I agree this is an unfortunate stereotype.

Our priest who was not one of those hardliners, grim and unfeeling, but said that if someone comes in and confesses to a sexual relationship or co-habitation, and does not offer either repentance or state he will refrain from this sin in the future, he will tell them they do not receive absolution.

As you said, the Secularists want it both ways, they want the authority of the Church to bless their sinful activity and then when it’s withheld, they cry foul.

Lisa

 

[EIF5A]

link

His words clearly speak for themselves. It’s obvious he is unrepentant in his lifestyle choices.

Reminds me of another story where someone felt “entitled” to the Eucharist, as if they were not being given the rights of an organization or something.

It’s also bizarre that the Human Rights Campaign is speaking out about this. The Eucharist is not a “perk” you get for being part of something. Denial is not discrimination.

All of this seems to stem from not knowing what the Eucharist is. We should pray that someone would teach him and that he may understand, repent, and finally receive the Sacrament in the worthy manner.

 

[Holly3278]

I don’t know for sure if he is unrepentant or not but if he is then no, he cannot be absolved of his sins and he can’t receive the Sacraments except for Confession but again, he must be contrite in order to receive absolution.

 

[lutheran_farmer]

I think the cussing at the priest part probably speaks more to the person’s character than anything else. Picture the same scenario, but this time, when the priest realizes he cannot give the man absolution, the man does admit to feeling remorse about his lifestyle. It could have ended very differently.

 

[Trader]

The phrase “last rites” suggests that he was on his deathbed. If so, then he was unlikely to be sexually active. Certainly a priest can not grant absolution for a sin which someone refuses to confess. Knowing of this recalcitrance, can the priest grant absolution for the other sins? I don’t know, and welcome information.

If the patient was not on his deathbed, then the phrase “last rites” conjures up a false image. The actual implications of what the priest refused is not nearly as dramatic.

For a valid confession, you have to confess all your grave sins. If you intentionally withhold a grave sin, the sacrament is invalid and none of your sins are forgiven. If you simply forget something, but are truly repentant, then the sacrament is valid. All your sins, even the forgotten one, are forgiven. If you later recall that a grave sin was omitted, it is a good idea to mention that at your next confession, but it is not required. It is already forgiven.

While we can only get one part of the story here, it seems that a sinner was not truly repentant for a grave sin. The priest was correct in denying absolution, and even if he had said the words of absolution, the sacrament would have been invalid. Sacraments are not magic spells. Without proper matter and form they are nothing at all.

 

[Mark121359]

Call me a cynic, but doesn’t anyone else notice the pattern that’s developing here lately? And the Washington Post seems to thrive on these types of stories.

A Missouri priest ordained last May is being raked over the media coals for upholding Catholic Church teaching on homosexuality after he denied Communion to a woman that he discovered has been in a long-term lesbian relationship.
lifesitenews.com/news/missouri-priest-under-fire-for-denying-communion-to-lesbian-couple

This story is strikingly similar to the high profile case of a parish priest in Maryland who made headlines in 2012 after denying Communion to a lesbian, Barbara Johnson, at her mother’s funeral.
washingtonpost.com/local/denying-communion-a-priest-and-a-lesbian-set-off-a-catholic-culture-clash/2012/03/15/gIQA9roNJS_story.html

And if you do a simple google search you’ll find even more. To me, it’s a no-brainer. Use a completely sympathetic media to paint the picture that the Catholic Church is anti-gay to a receptive society. One thing I’ve learned, is that ever since the priest abuse scandal, many, many people have lost ***all ***respect for the RCC, and will believe just about anything the media has to say about her. I’ve experienced this firsthand where I work. Add to this the fact that even the Catholic faithful are becoming more and more favorable to gay causes, and it becomes quite easy for me to see the reason why the Church finds itself in the predicament that it’s in. And one thing’s for sure. When the enemy feels you are weakened, it will only pummel you all the more relentlessly. So I see this pattern if anything, only escalating.

---

Peace, Mark***

 

[PaulinVA]

When I started the thread, I really wasn’t intending to give opportunity to people to bash this guy. I thought it was an interesting situation.

I wonder - if a priest is confronted with someone on their deathbed (anyone, not just this guy) who is in a state of sin and unrepentant - is there an obligation of sorts to engage in discussion to bring the person to repentance? The priest has been presented with someone whose salvation is in jeopardy.

I would think industrial-strength effort would be in order, not just, “I’ll pray with you.”

 

[LisaA]

Call me a cynic, but doesn’t anyone else notice the pattern that’s developing here lately? And the Washington Post seems to thrive on these types of stories.
This story is strikingly similar to the high profile case of a parish priest in Maryland who made headlines in 2012 after denying Communion to a lesbian, Barbara Johnson, at her mother’s funeral.
washingtonpost.com/local/denying-communion-a-priest-and-a-lesbian-set-off-a-catholic-culture-clash/2012/03/15/gIQA9roNJS_story.html

And if you do a simple google search you’ll find even more. To me, it’s a no-brainer. Use a completely sympathetic media to paint the picture that the Catholic Church is anti-gay to a receptive society. One thing I’ve learned, is that ever since the priest abuse scandal, many, many people have lost ***all ***respect for the RCC, and will believe just about anything the media has to say about her. I’ve experienced this firsthand where I work. Add to this the fact that even the Catholic faithful are becoming more and more favorable to gay causes, and it becomes quite easy for me to see the reason why the Church finds itself in the predicament that it’s in. And one thing’s for sure. When the enemy feels you are weakened, it will only pummel you all the more relentlessly. So I see this pattern if anything, only escalating.

---

Peace, Mark***

As a convert I find this as well. The irony is that the Church’s policy of repentence and forgiveness is part of the reason the predatory homosexuals were able to continue abusing youth. Then the Church is bashed for being “anti-gay” when it fails to conform to current views on normalizing homosexuality.

The reality is that if the Chaplain had been faced with an unreptentent sinner who did NOT push his homosexuality but another sin, he would presumably have denied absolution. Our priest made it very clear when those engaged in cohabitation or sexual actiivity outside of marriage were both unrepentent and refused to abstain in the future that he would pray for them but they would not receive absolution.

It’s the homosexualist actiists who gin up these cases in order to bash the Church with a cudgel of its past failings and commitment to doctrine.

Lisa

 

[Mark121359]

As a convert I find this as well. The irony is that the Church’s policy of repentence and forgiveness is part of the reason the predatory homosexuals were able to continue abusing youth. Then the Church is bashed for being “anti-gay” when it fails to conform to current views on normalizing homosexuality.

The reality is that if the Chaplain had been faced with an unreptentent sinner who did NOT push his homosexuality but another sin, he would presumably have denied absolution. Our priest made it very clear when those engaged in cohabitation or sexual actiivity outside of marriage were both unrepentent and refused to abstain in the future that he would pray for them but they would not receive absolution.

It’s the homosexualist actiists who gin up these cases in order to bash the Church with a cudgel of its past failings and commitment to doctrine.

Lisa

Absolutely spot-on Lisa! If this man lay dying, and was refusing to repent for some other mortal sin, the circumstances would be the same. If the person steadfastly refused to acknowledge and repent of their sin, and still insisted on receiving Holy Communion, the priest would try to avoid public denial of communion by trying to talk with the person in question so as to persuade him not to seek to receive communion. Only as a last resort would communion be denied and would be done with extreme charity. But because it’s one of the MSM “pet causes” that’s perceived as being “attacked” here, they absolutely beat it to death, and will continue to do so vigorously. As mentioned before, this will not end…only escalate.

Peace, Mark