Gays May Be Prosecuted at 2014 Olympics

[SMGS127]

I find the laws supporting the promotion of an illness among the young in the Western countries much more backward, sickening and downright insane than I find a law protecting children from the same in Russia.

I find the idea that gay people somehow “convert” children to be backward, sickening, and downright insane. This law does nothing to protect children.

But you know what? It’ll have the effect of lowering the gay population that you want. Why? Because young gay teens who don’t know what same-sex attractions are, and especially young gay teens whose parents directly contradict the Church by frequently talking about how horrible gay people are, will all start committing suicide at even higher rates. And then the gays that survive their childhood will all leave the religion, because they’ll associate it with your backwards thinking and never truly understand the religion for the grace, love, and call to chastity it truly is. And then when the gay community becomes more anti-religion as a result, you’ll use that example to try to further your case that gays are horrible people, and the cycle will continue.

Meanwhile, I will continue to fight for every single one of these kids. Yes, it is a sin to act on your inclinations, but it sure as hell isn’t one to have them. All of you people who support a law that would criminalize the “It Gets Better” project are downright crazy, and I hope that none of your kids are gay, because I would hate to see us lose another child to secularism (or worse, suicide) as a direct result of your insane brand of politics.

How can you people talk about an entire group of people as if they have no dignity whatsoever? It makes me downright ashamed of my religious community that there are so many hateful people in it. I thought I left that the way of the Protestant community I grew up in. You can be self-righteous if you want, but you are all sinners in some way or another. Throwing one group of sinners into jail because the law doesn’t affect you is the most selfish, un-Catholic, dirtbaggy thing to do. And it is CERTAINLY not Catholic to point to an immoral thing that another group is doing (e.g. gay storybooks in class without notification) to somehow justify pushing an even MORE immoral thing (condemning people for their sins, as if you have the right to do that).

I used to fight hard against the prejudice in the LGBT community that Catholics “hated” them, because the Church certainly does not, and I never could understand why they felt that way. But seeing all the responses on this board makes me sick and fully understanding of why they feel that way. You guys are leading gays into sin through your vitriol, and I will not stand for it. You should all know better; assuming you are all adults. I can’t believe you.

Still, God bless all of you. I hope that your hearts don’t stay hardened for your whole life. We need apostles to bring sinners back to the Church, not more megaphones to condemn them to hell.

 

[Tucker_R]

I’m willing to give it a try.

In the same way that persecution of Christianity discouraged the practice of it?

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

This is telling a kid who’s gay: “if you make a support group for other kids with SSAs, we will prosecute you mercilessly and send you to jail.” This is telling two people in a same-sex relationship that they don’t have equal dignity as people because they sin.

Work in the gay communities to help bring people back; don’t tell them that you’ve completely given up on them.

So you are gay. OK, at least now I know where you are coming from.

This emotionally charged pseudo-argument about persecuting gay kids that you present above is truly sickening. I think we both know that this law is about adults and how their behaviour impacts society, which includes the youth.

I’m sorry, but I’m not interested in working in the gay community. My priorities are elsewhere; ie. how to raise and protect my children from the increasingly vulgar and damaging secular world.

 

[One_point]

What a judgmental, hateful post. Responding with insults to a person instead of to my comment just because you disagree? This law nowhere criminalizes gay lifestyle but the promotion of the same to children. Just because one country thinks that children’s welfare matters more than public promotion of non-traditional relations and your country has a different value system doesnt make yours better, nor does it make those who disagree with yours hateful or whatever other accusations you hurled. No one said it was gay people who convert children, you’re making up stuff. This law targets any one who spreads propaganda that promotes it among children, whether that person is gay or straight. That nonsense about holding hands came from the article, not the law it discusses. That Law clearly is targetting the active promotion of this lifestyle in russia as has been seen in other countries in the West that doesnt even spare little children who are five years old, like Canada. why you think countries have no right to prevent this in their own lands is still unclear.

I find the idea that gay people somehow “convert” children to be backward, sickening, and downright insane. This law does nothing to protect children.

But you know what? It’ll have the effect of lowering the gay population that you want. Why? Because young gay teens who don’t know what same-sex attractions are, and especially young gay teens whose parents directly contradict the Church by frequently talking about how horrible gay people are, will all start committing suicide at even higher rates. And then the gays that survive their childhood will all leave the religion, because they’ll associate it with your backwards thinking and never truly understand the religion for the grace, love, and call to chastity it truly is. And then when the gay community becomes more anti-religion as a result, you’ll use that example to try to further your case that gays are horrible people, and the cycle will continue.

Meanwhile, I will continue to fight for every single one of these kids. Yes, it is a sin to act on your inclinations, but it sure as hell isn’t one to have them. All of you people who support a law that would criminalize the “It Gets Better” project are downright crazy, and I hope that none of your kids are gay, because I would hate to see us lose another child to secularism (or worse, suicide) as a direct result of your insane brand of politics.

How can you people talk about an entire group of people as if they have no dignity whatsoever? It makes me downright ashamed of my religious community that there are so many hateful people in it. I thought I left that the way of the Protestant community I grew up in. You can be self-righteous if you want, but you are all sinners in some way or another. Throwing one group of sinners into jail because the law doesn’t affect you is the most selfish, un-Catholic, dirtbaggy thing to do. And it is CERTAINLY not Catholic to point to an immoral thing that another group is doing (e.g. gay storybooks in class without notification) to somehow justify pushing an even MORE immoral thing (condemning people for their sins, as if you have the right to do that).

I used to fight hard against the prejudice in the LGBT community that Catholics “hated” them, because the Church certainly does not, and I never could understand why they felt that way. But seeing all the responses on this board makes me sick and fully understanding of why they feel that way. You guys are leading gays into sin through your vitriol, and I will not stand for it. You should all know better; assuming you are all adults. I can’t believe you.

Still, God bless all of you. I hope that your hearts don’t stay hardened for your whole life. We need apostles to bring sinners back to the Church, not more megaphones to condemn them to hell.

 

[kelvinf]

The problem is not with homosexuality, it is with gay lobbying and the sexualisation of children. I support any law that criminalises the latter.

 

[Julian_Bashir]

The problem is not with homosexuality, it is with gay lobbying and the sexualisation of children. I support any law that criminalises the latter.

I agree about the criminalization of the lobbying and sexualisation of children, but what the Pope technically said was:

1. If a person is seeking God, why should he care? - If a personal has sinful inclinations (homosexual or otherwise) but strives to do God’s will, not act of those temptations and strives to live a normal healthy Christian life, it is of no concern to him.
2. The problem is with gay (or other) lobbies. - Any person or group who lobbies to codify the rights of these groups, or pushes to further their agenda or spread their own disorders (greed, homosexuality) further into society and the legal system is problematic. Struggling with sin is one thing; pushing to spread your sin is another.
3. The Church already has the perfect teaching on abortion and homosexuality - Abortion and homosexuality and grave sins, and the latter is gravely disordered. We must treat those who struggle with the latter with compassion and love while not condoning or encouraging the sin (much like we expect with our own sins).

So to say the problem is not with homosexuality is not entirely correct. Some people disliked the term SSA, but it at least distinguished by someone struggling with homosexual attractions and two men actively engaged in a sexual relationship.

 

[kelvinf]

I agree about the criminalization of the lobbying and sexualisation of children, but what the Pope technically said was:

1. If a person is seeking God, why should he care? - If a personal has sinful inclinations (homosexual or otherwise) but strives to do God’s will, not act of those temptations and strives to live a normal healthy Christian life, it is of no concern to him.
2. The problem is with gay (or other) lobbies. - Any person or group who lobbies to codify the rights of these groups, or pushes to further their agenda or spread their own disorders (greed, homosexuality) further into society and the legal system is problematic. Struggling with sin is one thing; pushing to spread your sin is another.
3. The Church already has the perfect teaching on abortion and homosexuality - Abortion and homosexuality and grave sins, and the latter is gravely disordered. We must treat those who struggle with the latter with compassion and love while not condoning or encouraging the sin (much like we expect with our own sins).

So to say the problem is not with homosexuality is not entirely correct. Some people disliked the term SSA, but it at least distinguished by someone struggling with homosexual attractions and two men actively engaged in a sexual relationship.

Thankyou for pointing that out. What I said wasn’t really what I meant. I actually meant such laws are not passed just because some people are homosexuals (people with SSA) or just to criminalise homosexuals because of their sexual orientation, but rather,…

Again, thankyou for pointing that out.

 

[ronaldmiller]

I guess conservatives here who support this law are okay with a Big Brother looking over them so as long as its imposing Sharia Law Catholic style rather than the Godless secular (isn’t Putin a secularist at his heart?). Kind of a double standard.

National Catholic reporter is a left-wing, dissenting newspaper.
If you actually read what the Vatican statement was, it mentions nothing about “consensual actions.” You can read the actual statement they referenced here: vatican.va/roman_curia/secretariat_state/2008/documents/rc_seg-st_20081218_statement-sexual-orientation_en.html

The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has also written on the matter. It appears that while excessive discrimination against people for merely having a homosexual orientation is wrong, certain restrictions on homosexual actions are acceptable, and I’d guess that the propaganda meets this standard.
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19920724_homosexual-persons_en.html
(bolding mine)

Be that as it may, how far should this go? Should heterosexuals (in the millions) who engage in pre-marital sex go to jail? What about taking the Lord’s name in vain? What if you eat meat on Friday and don’t perform a penance?

The below post says it best:

The number of posters here willing to cozy up to Putin because he puts the veneer of religiosity and morality on his increasingly Soviet brand of totalitarianism is scary. Criminalizing the holding hands with someone of the same sex is madness. It’s bad enough that such a law exists in a freedom-hating and openly xenophobic nation like Russia, but the number of people who want it exported westward is truly disturbing.

 

[kelvinf]

Be that as it may, how far should this go? Should heterosexuals (in the millions) who engage in pre-marital sex go to jail? What about taking the Lord’s name in vain? What if you eat meat on Friday and don’t perform a penance?

There are people who believe that vices that affect other people and society in general should be criminalised. Those vices could include certain sins.

There are people who believe that adultery should be criminalised not because it’s a sin per se but because it’s a breach of contract and affects the other contract partner. Other breaches which are not necessarily sinful also get penalised. So why not?

 

[meltzerboy]

How could they possibly charge someone with holding hands??? It’s not public SEX. Humans hold hands in friendship, in kinship. I’d hold hands with my mother or my sisters or female cousins…so I would get arrested walking down the street in Russia for that!!!

It’s INSANE and it’s Orwellian.

.

Yes, a little like the State’s racial profiling or collecting telephone records, except in this case the dragnet involves behavior. European males whose custom it is to kiss on the cheek, beware!

 

[Brendan]

Yes, a little like the State’s racial profiling or collecting telephone records, except in this case the dragnet involves behavior. !

Isn’t all law a regulation of behavior? Laws against rape, murder, theft, etc… all involve a behavior. Merely the desire to steal, for example, is not enough, but the commission of the act triggers the law.

 

[gam197]

originally posted by** ronaldmiller**
Be that as it may, how far should this go? Should heterosexuals (in the millions) who engage in pre-marital sex go to jail? What about taking the Lord’s name in vain? What if you eat meat on Friday and don’t perform a penance?

No but if they bring it into the public square and then spread propaganda to every schooled child that fornication is the way to go, then yes.

Hey wait, I think Planned Parenthood is already doing that.

 

[Seamus_L]

I thoroughly commend the Russian government for it’s strong defense of Christian morals. Pretty much what we Catholics believed in as well for close to 2000 years, but sadly for alot of people, it’s one of those issues we were supposedly wrong about until very recently. Following that line of reasoning (and quite a few people are) imagine all the other things we’re going to find the Church was wrong about in the future.

 

[RACJ]

San Antonio has passed an ordinance prohibiting those who have ever supported traditional marriage “in word or deed” from ever serving in any position, or procuring a contract in the city. And we think that Russia is extreme! This is what “progressivism” is all about: ultimate silencing of all opposition. WAKE UP before your freedom has been extinguished by desposts such as Obama. :bigyikes: Rob

 

[Tigg]

gam197;11048012:

How will they know?

They don’t need to have gay written all over them. Just compete and get out of there.

Even Hillary Clinton gets that, when you are in foreign nations, you abide by their rules.

At all kinds of international events, sporting and other, the participants are generally briefed about local customs and possible cultural differences. Any athlete who wants to participate in an international event should have the grace to behave appropriately and not to offend local customs. If you don’t want to be considerate of the local customs and laws, stay home. If you are that rude, you have no business representing your country abroad anyway.

Exactly!!!

 

[Darryl1958]

San Antonio has passed an ordinance prohibiting those who have ever supported traditional marriage “in word or deed” from ever serving in any position, or procuring a contract in the city. And we think that Russia is extreme! This is what “progressivism” is all about: ultimate silencing of all opposition. WAKE UP before your freedom has been extinguished by desposts such as Obama. :bigyikes: Rob

The morality of the totalitarian mindset is always arbitrary. What is important is not whether 2+2 is 3 or 4 or 5, but that the answer is what the State says it is and it is incumbent on all to believe fully in the answer provided, even when the State changes its mind.

In terms of repugnance and sheer inanity from the Judeo-Christian perspective, the San Antonio decree is the worst of the two prosecutions.

 

[colmywaykurtz]

There have been uncountable cases of young gay men in particularly being brutally murdered by gangs in Russia.

The sad fact is that it is fostered by the blatant xenophobia of the government, which tries to falsely present itself as a crusading Christian force resurrecting morality after decades of Communism when in fact Putin has returned Russia to a police state where corruption and abuse are rife at the highest levels. Joseph Stalin is even praised on Russian TV and by government figures. In the post-Stalin years of the Soviet era, Khrushchev “de-stalinized” the country. Putin is reversing that trend. Now, why on earth a so-called “Christian” would want to promote one of history’s greatest monsters - and an atheist, anti-religious one at that - is beyond me.

Poor Russia is under its most corrupt leadership since the fall of the Soviet regime.

Worse, some Orthodox priests are even implicated in these crimes:

You see, this is why Pope Francis takes the view that he does, based upon the Catechism which condemns discrimination against homosexual persons whilst maintaining that homosexual acts are sinful. Hatred of any group only leads to the absolutely disgusting, totally un-Christ-like statement of the above cleric - he actually regretted not being allowed to get involved in the brutal gang beating of people simply because they were gay!!!

This can only end in one way. Such xenophobic speech, crimes, homophobic culture and government actions could lead to mass murder at worst - I’m not kidding. It wouldn’t be the first time that’s happened.

One of the first things Hitler did when he took over in Germany was to jail homosexuals because of their orientation, a persecution that only ended when Germany lay in ruins in 1945.

 

[RACJ]

The morality of the totalitarian mindset is always arbitrary. What is important is not whether 2+2 is 3 or 4 or 5, but that the answer is what the State says it is and it is incumbent on all to believe fully in the answer provided, even when the State changes its mind.
In terms of repugnance and sheer inanity from the Judeo-Christian perspective, the San Antonio decree is the worst of the two prosecutions.

I apologize. This ordinance has been proposed, not passed yet. But in another day the people who would propose such totalitarian measures would be forever disgraced. Sadly, today, I guarantee that most of the leftist sheople think this evisceration of freedom of conscience is a just application of government power.

 

[signit]

San Antonio has passed an ordinance prohibiting those who have ever supported traditional marriage “in word or deed” from ever serving in any position, or procuring a contract in the city. And we think that Russia is extreme! This is what “progressivism” is all about: ultimate silencing of all opposition. WAKE UP before your freedom has been extinguished by desposts such as Obama. :bigyikes: Rob

This is interesting; thanks for pointing it out.

The law doesn’t actually say “those who have ever supported traditional marriage” but prohibits, from appointment to a city board or commission, those who have committed “prior discriminatory acts” by word or deed.

s3.amazonaws.com/FOCISpecialServices/Special+PDFs/An+Ordinance.pdf

 

[Monkey1976]

This is interesting; thanks for pointing it out.

The law doesn’t actually say “those who have ever supported traditional marriage” but prohibits, from appointment to a city board or commission, those who have committed “prior discriminatory acts” by word or deed.

s3.amazonaws.com/FOCISpecialServices/Special+PDFs/An+Ordinance.pdf

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