Getting men back to Mass

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Whether its video games, history and law discussions or BBQ its really about giving men a connection to the Church. **Too many men feel that church artivities are primarily geared to the needs of women **so giving men opportunites for things they enjoy can only help. You can’t get them through the door without them first stepping on the porch. Use things like this to get them to the porch and after a while they might poke their head through the door. 😉
Not sure I agree with that.
Generally speaking, the first question we as men tend to ask is “What am I doing?” In other words, what am I producing of value by doing this or that. Am I making money, am I fixing something, am I providing for the security of my family? Men, generally speaking, do not see the value in making time for spirituality because nothing is seemingly accomplished. Worshipping God can be seen as doing nothing, which goes against our worldly nature and makes us real fidgety. We as men do not know how to “be” in God’s presence, without doing or accomplishing.

Women seem to have a much better sense of this, thank God. Think of the scene at the cross. Most of the men, when it is obvious that nothing is going to be accomplished by this “failed” mission of Christ’s, are nowhere to be found. They are all scattered, probably looking for the next productive thing to do. Who is simply adoring Jesus on the cross? His mother and the women, and John. Somehow they have a better sense of the eternal, and the value of patiently adoring, hopefully waiting on and tending to, Christ.

By the way, some posters who believe that a less expressive liturgy would draw men to Mass should look at St John of the Cross, who was definitely not afraid of expressing himself to fullest extent.
 
Not sure I agree with that.
Generally speaking, the first question we as men tend to ask is “What am I doing?” In other words, what am I producing of value by doing this or that. Am I making money, am I fixing something, am I providing for the security of my family? Men, generally speaking, do not see the value in making time for spirituality because nothing is seemingly accomplished. Worshipping God can be seen as doing nothing, which goes against our worldly nature and makes us real fidgety. We as men do not know how to “be” in God’s presence, without doing or accomplishing.

Women seem to have a much better sense of this, thank God. Think of the scene at the cross. Most of the men, when it is obvious that nothing is going to be accomplished by this “failed” mission of Christ’s, are nowhere to be found. They are all scattered, probably looking for the next productive thing to do. Who is simply adoring Jesus on the cross? His mother and the women, and John. Somehow they have a better sense of the eternal, and the value of patiently adoring, hopefully waiting on and tending to, Christ.

By the way, some posters who believe that a less expressive liturgy would draw men to Mass should look at St John of the Cross, who was definitely not afraid of expressing himself to fullest extent.
We have a wonderful parish now and there is no shortage of male participation. But that was not always so decades ago. When men did not step up, women did. And the women who stepped up at the time were women with a feminist agenda. But thank goodness there were devout women, too, whose prayers and actions helped to begin the process of true parish renewal. Our parish has come a long way in the past 30 years. One of the things we have going now for boys and men is Fraternus.
Tim Haines and Wilson Orihuela talk about “True Manhood” and interview Justin Biance founder of Fraternus 37:45 into the video
vericast.net/true-manhood/
 
I can agree with this, at least to an extent. We had a parish priest at one time who was a true intellectual. He could expound on theological issues in a way that was both enlightening and interesting. I will say, however, that those particular sermons left a lot of people cold because they had little or no backgrounding in theology whatever. A mix might be appropriate.
I would agree with you. Our parish also had a pastor who was like yours and many people felt that he “went over their heads”. He wasn’t trying to and was a nice man, but he really was an intellectual and it just who he was. It would have been much better in an academic setting. His homilies were always good, interesting and filled with meat (not that I am some intellectual, theology scholar - I’m very far from it.) But I understand how others could have felt “left out” or left feeling cold from the homily. So, a balance is good when giving a more “intellectual” homily. It probably shouldn’t be completely head-y so that it doesn’t leave out many other listeners. But I guess a lesson here is that you can’t please everyone.
I’ll add this. I genuinely believe men are more imaginative than we’re given credit for. Men can paint vivid mental pictures and are rather inclined to do it. I suspect that might account for the fact that men tend to be able to see “whole pictures” of something readily while oftentimes women are (contrary to what many think) much more methodical. That might also at least partially explain why men can watch two or more television shows simultaneously at the vexation of their wives, who can’t stand the “skipping around”.

I was once at a retreat in which the priest took us through some of the meditations of St. Ignatius Loyola. They were very, very “mental image” creating. I don’t think a single man left unimpressed with the whole thing.
I’m not a man, but I do think you are right. Maybe I’m a little biased since he’s my husband and I love him and all that, but I do think he is rather imaginative and can conceptualize things much easier that I think I can do. 😃
 
Not sure I agree with that.
Generally speaking, the first question we as men tend to ask is “What am I doing?” In other words, what am I producing of value by doing this or that. Am I making money, am I fixing something, am I providing for the security of my family? Men, generally speaking, do not see the value in making time for spirituality because nothing is seemingly accomplished. Worshipping God can be seen as doing nothing, which goes against our worldly nature and makes us real fidgety. We as men do not know how to “be” in God’s presence, without doing or accomplishing.

Women seem to have a much better sense of this, thank God. Think of the scene at the cross. Most of the men, when it is obvious that nothing is going to be accomplished by this “failed” mission of Christ’s, are nowhere to be found. They are all scattered, probably looking for the next productive thing to do. Who is simply adoring Jesus on the cross? His mother and the women, and John. Somehow they have a better sense of the eternal, and the value of patiently adoring, hopefully waiting on and tending to, Christ.

By the way, some posters who believe that a less expressive liturgy would draw men to Mass should look at St John of the Cross, who was definitely not afraid of expressing himself to fullest extent.
I think we need a balance and I think that’s why men and women complement each other. Women are often seen as more spiritual, men as more action-oriented. When we’re given a problem, we feel the need to find a solution, whereas in many instances it’s really an intractable problem, and we’d be better served to take a more spiritual approach that allows us to live at peace with ourselves and with the world around us instead of flailing at windmills trying to fix an intractable problem; we need to learn to pick our battles. We can learn that from women. We can learn from them to place our trust fully in God, instead of relying exclusively on our own will.

And perhaps women often feel, and rightly so, that their work is taken for granted, and need to be reminded that work is prayer too. Indeed, in looking at the Rule of St. Benedict, the motto “Ora et Labora” of Benedictines isn’t a clear-cut black-or-white sort of thing. It is work AND prayer, not work OR prayer. That means there’s overlap and indeed work carried out for the glory of God is its own form of prayer, and regular prayer is a form of work; for the monks, in fact, prayer is their man job, the Divine Office is often referred to as the Work of God. So there’s overlap. Benedict made sacred the mundane (“treat every tool of the monastery as a sacred object of the altar”), and humanized the sacred by taking into account human frailties in designing his famous rule. His rule is equally used by men’s and women’s monasteries.

I agree with the poster who said being told to “go pray the Rosary” to deal with men’s issues won’t work. I know it won’t work for me, some problems just need a very practical solution. I haven’t prayed the Rosary in years though I’ve tried. Being told to make time for prayer does help though. I do pray the Liturgy of the Hours each day because it gives my day structure and a sense of order, and by God that is so important for us men. It is also a very structural prayer with rules, rubrics and guidelines, and I like that as well. There’s an almost mathematical precision to it (especially so if you chant it in Latin following the rules of Latin psalmody on the Gregorian modes, but I digress 😉 ). I find also great benefit in the LOTH to help me transition from one phase of the day to the other, leaving my work problems aside, for example, when I come home.

What also did work though, on the prayer side besides the LOTH, is being told early in my Oblate formation that when unable to pray the LOTH because of some pressing family duty, then that duty takes place of the prayer and is in itself prayer. Men need to be told in fact that we shouldn’t feel guilty if we aren’t into things like praying the Rosary, or stations of the Cross, or adoration, etc. Men and women need to be told that our contributions to society are in fact prayer in themselves, if they’re carried out with dignity and for the greater glory of God. I do my work well, because my work is my gift to Him. And that applies equally to doing things like working on the church roof, simply doing my job to the best of my abilities and treating my co-workers and subordinates with dignity, or carrying out my duties as a husband and father.

We also need role models. The priests who have most impressed me have been those who are virile, give practical advice, give robust, non-watered down homilies, and are able to give me my “marching orders” for the week through the homily at Mass. We are after all, the “Church militant” 🙂

That said, I’ve seen far too many liturgical committees that were all women resulting in liturgical add-ons and liturgical music that was far to effete for my tastes. Often too the “para-liturgical” add ons that often disrupt the order of the Mass are for me very disturbing and affect my sense of security and order in the liturgy. It’s particularly bad at my wife’s Anglican church (though it has a very virile pastor), the liturgy is all over the place and never predictable and I’m always rather uneasy when I go there. Whereas at the Benedictine Abbey were I go to Mass, not only does it have great beauty, it has great order as well. We men love our routine 😃

I think therefore we need more men on liturgical committees 😉 We need to strike a balance so that both men and women are reached at Mass.
 
Pray the Rosary with the heart. Make time to say the Rosary before Mass and after Mass (it’s vital that you pray the Rosary with your parishioners) and you’ll be amazed at what happens.

God bless

One of Our Lady’s primary messages in Medjugorje:
  1. Pray the Rosary every day
  2. Pray the Rosary with the heart
  3. Pray the Rosary together
 
Pray the Rosary with the heart. Make time to say the Rosary before Mass and after Mass (it’s vital that you pray the Rosary with your parishioners) and you’ll be amazed at what happens.

God bless

One of Our Lady’s primary messages in Medjugorje:
  1. Pray the Rosary every day
  2. Pray the Rosary with the heart
  3. Pray the Rosary together
True devotion to Mary always leads to Jesus. I believe it was both devotion to the Rosary and Devotion to the Holy Eucharist that eventually brought about a wonderful renewal in our parish.
 
The Church Impotent: The Feminization
of Christianity
by Leon J. Podles podles.org/church-impotent.htm
For men the consequences have been disastrous. Bridal language used to describe a Christian’s relationship with God has homosexual overtones to many men, unless they engage in mental gymnastics and try to think of themselves as women. “If monks wished to play the starring role in this love story,” Barbara Newman says, “they had to adopt a feminine perso- na—as many did—to pursue a heterosexual love affair with their God.”35 But few boys like to be named Sue. Since normal men reject both homo- sexuality and femininity as incompatible with the masculinity for which they are always striving, bridal mysticism and the metaphors and attitudes to which it gave rise have placed a major obstacle to men’s participation in the Church. Even among fundamentalists who have a balance of men and women in their congregations, women, not men, have religious ex- periences.36 What is lacking in the West is a language of intimacy that expresses the closeness that men feel with men.
 
Play basketball. Seriously. If your parish has a gym, make one or two nights a week open for guys to come play basketball. Our parish makes it for 18 and older (safety reasons - not sure if that’s for the teens who might get sent flying by the bigger guys, or for the older ‘geezers’ who might have a heart-attack if they tried to run with the teens - but I digress).

How does it work? Guys A, B, and C attend parish X. They hear they can play on Thursday nights for free or low cost (I think ours collects $2 to help with the cost of lights/heat). They come - and they invite Joe, Bob, Harry, and Sam - who may or may not be Catholic and/or attend mass. Other guys in the parish hear about it, sounds like fun. They come. Wife reads about it in the bulletin - mentions it to hubby who’s been thinking about getting into shape - he ends up going. Each of these guys invites a another guy or two. Now you have too many guys to play continuously so they take turns. While resting/waiting on the side, they talk. More friendships/buddy-ships form. They are sitting on church property - sooner or later, mass / father’s homily / coffee&doughnuts / KofC /etc. is brought up. Guys who are attending mention this stuff. Guys not attending / feeling a smidge guilty about it / show up on Sunday. Before / after mass they see those same guys they play ball with. They get greeted by name - they KNOW someone there. More ball playing, more talk, more discussion of homilies, raising kids in the Church, etc. Positive peer pressure grows and blooms. Guy from the couch becomes regular attendee at mass. Guy who went once or twice makes sure to show up for mass because he wants to catch his buddy afterwards to give him the article he had mentioned when they last talked. Another guy attends and joins K of C after being invited by his new buddy from bball. When a guy doesn’t attend the next mass, he may hear “Hey, Missed seeing you Sunday”. Realizes attendance at mass does matter - at least to his friend 🙂 Makes an effort to attend more often, then it becomes a habit.

I repeat - play basketball 😃

FYI - Above is based on true life experiences witnessed and described by myself, my hubby and others in my parish. Doesn’t sound very religious based, I’m sure. But my view is you have to start with where guys are - and many are not turning over great spiritual and theological thoughts in their heads. They are trying to work, raise their kids, pay the bills, keep their spouse happy, and get the grass mowed. They aren’t bad guys. They just aren’t focused on religion - this stimulates their awareness and gets them motivated a bit - once they are attending, then the homilies, the graces, the sacraments can start kicking in 😉 Anyway - my real life positive idea to get men back to Mass.
Just a note of worthy caution. The friendships and relationships built have to be authentic and not dependent upon whether or not they attend Mass at some point down the road…

Im and former-Mormon. One prosyletizing technique is to use things like mentioned above to gain converts. If the person doesnt show any interest in the LDS church, they get dropped and the relationship ends.

Being an authentic friend is the imperiative
 
And make people be quiet on their way out of mass. It is ridiculous that you should feel weird staying after mass in silent prayer because everyone is so loud and is clamoring to get to their cars.

I’ve almost switched to a Tridentine service just for the fact that the people there have a real reverence. I didn’t even know the service ended because everyone stayed after the mass and continued to pray for a good 15 minutes.
I agree with this, like, 587489032%.
 
Is there even any evidence that men are falling away in greater numbers than women? Or are we taking the OP at his word with no data to back it up. I have not observed the condition that he asserts exists.

Disclaimer: I live in the United States.
 
Is there even any evidence that men are falling away in greater numbers than women? Or are we taking the OP at his word with no data to back it up. I have not observed the condition that he asserts exists.

Disclaimer: I live in the United States.
No one has provided any stats in this particular thread. Right now, we’re taking him at his word (although some posters have stated they do not notice this phenomenon in their parish).

It does sound familiar to me as though I’ve seen statistics on this before. But I have no links to back it up. I know I’ve seen statstics on how children are more likely to follow the faith practice of their father than their mother.

For the purpose of this thread, though, it does not matter if men are falling away in greater numbers than women. Both men and women are falling away in great numbers. So the need is there. If there are some specific strategies for getting men to come back, it’s good to brainstorm and pursue some approaches – just as it would be good to do the same for women who have fallen away from the practice of their faith.
 
Is there even any evidence that men are falling away in greater numbers than women? Or are we taking the OP at his word with no data to back it up. I have not observed the condition that he asserts exists.

Disclaimer: I live in the United States.
This is a good question. We are making assumptions about something that is anecdotal. My assumption here is that from my experience, women tend to take leadership roles in spirituality. In many households the woman is the catalyst for spiritual practice. And this is not a modern problem at all.
As far as modern expressions of language being a stumbling block, here is an excerpt of St John of the Cross’ Spiritual Canticle. The language would seem to be objectionable on the effeminacy front we are concerned with in this thread.
Bride
  1. Where have you hidden,
    Beloved, and left me moaning?
    You fled like the stag
    after wounding me;
    I went out calling you, but you were gone.
  1. Shepherds, you who go
    up through the sheepfolds to the hill,
    if by chance you see
    him I love most,
    tell him I am sick, I suffer, and I die.
  1. Seeking my Love
    I will head for the mountains and for watersides,
    I will not gather flowers,
    nor fear wild beasts;
    I will go beyond strong men and frontiers.
  1. O woods and thickets,
    planted by the hand of my Beloved!
    O green meadow,
    coated, bright, with flowers,
    tell me, has he passed by you?
  1. Pouring out a thousand graces,
    he passed these groves in haste;
    and having looked at them,
    with his image alone,
    clothed them in beauty.
  1. Ah, who has the power to heal me?
    now wholly surrender yourself!
    Do not send me
    any more messengers,
    they cannot tell me what I must hear.
  1. All who are free
    tell me a thousand graceful things of you;
    all wound me more
    and leave me dying
    of, ah, I-don’t-know-what behind their stammering.
  1. How do you endure
    O life, not living where you live,
    and being brought near death
    by the arrows you receive
    from that which you conceive of your Beloved?
  1. Why, since you wounded
    this heart, don’t you heal it?
    And why, since you stole it from me,
    do you leave it so,
    and fail to carry off what you have stolen?
  1. Extinguish these miseries,
    since no one else can stamp them out;
    and may my eyes behold you,
    because you are their light,
    and I would open them to you alone.
  1. Reveal your presence,
    and may the vision of your beauty be my death;
    for the sickness of love
    is not cured
    except by your very presence and image.
  1. O spring like crystal!
    If only, on your silvered-over faces,
    you would suddenly form
    the eyes I have desired,
    which I bear sketched deep within my heart.
  1. Withdraw them, Beloved,
    I am taking flight!
Bridegroom
Return, dove,
the wounded stag
is in sight on the hill,
cooled by the breeze of your flight.
Bridegroom
  1. Swift-winged birds,
    lions, stags, and leaping roes,
    mountains, lowlands, and river banks,
    waters, winds, and ardors,
    watching fears of night:
  1. By the pleasant lyres
    and the siren’s song, I conjure you
    to cease your anger
    and not touch the wall,
    that the bride may sleep in deeper peace.
  1. The bride has entered
    the sweet garden of her desire,
    and she rests in delight,
    laying her neck
    on the gentle arms of her Beloved.
  1. Beneath the apple tree:
    there I took you for my own,
    there I offered you my hand,
    and restored you,
    where your mother was corrupted.
  1. Our bed is in flower,
    bound round with linking dens of lions,
    hung with purple,
    built up in peace,
    and crowned with a thousand shields of gold.
  1. Following your footprints
    maidens run along the way;
    the touch of a spark,
    the spiced wine,
    cause flowings in them from the balsam of God.
  1. In the inner wine cellar
    I drank of my Beloved, and, when I went abroad
    through all this valley
    I no longer knew anything,
    and lost the herd that I was following.
  1. There he gave me his breast;
    there he taught me a sweet and living knowledge;
    and I gave myself to him,
    keeping nothing back;
    there I promised to be his bride.
  1. Now I occupy my soul
    and all my energy in his service;
    I no longer tend the herd,
    nor have I any other work
    now that my every act is love.
  1. If, then, I am no longer
    seen or found on the common,
    you will say that I am lost;
    that, stricken by love,
    I lost myself, and was found.
  1. With flowers and emeralds
    chosen on cool mornings
    we shall weave garlands
    flowering in your love,
    and bound with one hair of mine.
  1. You considered
    that one hair fluttering at my neck;
    you gazed at it upon my neck
    and it captivated you;
    and one of my eyes wounded you.
  1. When you looked at me
    your eyes imprinted your grace in me;
    for this you loved me ardently;
    and thus my eyes deserved
    to adore what they beheld in you.
I am not an expert on ancient literature and culture, but my instinct tells me that men being afraid of spiritually intimate language and expression is a modern problem? Which probably came about with the romanticizing of love in the 1700’s-1800’s. Anybody have expertise in this area? St John obviously did not think twice about it.
 
This is a good question. We are making assumptions about something that is anecdotal. My assumption here is that from my experience, women tend to take leadership roles in spirituality. In many households the woman is the catalyst for spiritual practice. And this is not a modern problem at all.
As far as modern expressions of language being a stumbling block, here is an excerpt of St John of the Cross’ Spiritual Canticle. The language would seem to be objectionable on the effeminacy front we are concerned with in this thread.
Bride

I am not an expert on ancient literature and culture, but my instinct tells me that men being afraid of spiritually intimate language and expression is a modern problem? Which probably came about with the romanticizing of love in the 1700’s-1800’s. Anybody have expertise in this area? St John obviously did not think twice about it.
My mother was the strong example of religious devotion in my family and my dad supported her and went along with the family rosary, daily Mass, and later Liturgy of hours with her. It was kind of the opposite in my husband’s family, not that his mother was not devout, but that his father had a stronger desire to encourage and spread devotion and knowledge of our Catholic Faith. He would give us subscriptions to Catholic periodicals and send us copied clippings. With the permission of his pastor, he began a lending library years ago before the internet when there was not much Catholic material available. He also sold statues, pictures and other sacramentals. His wife supported him in his efforts. We are saddened that at the age of 89 he is now on his death bed. It was written in a recent journal update by a family member: “Dad never stopped praying…through good times…through tough times…now he tells us he’s “holding onto the Lord”…never stop praying!”
http://www.caringbridge.org/assets/ugc/5g/6q/1h/51c798e5cb16b4995a7c1327.jpg
 
My mother was the strong example of religious devotion in my family and my dad supported her and went along with the family rosary, daily Mass, and later Liturgy of hours with her. It was kind of the opposite in my husband’s family, not that his mother was not devout, but that his father had a stronger desire to encourage and spread devotion and knowledge of our Catholic Faith. He would give us subscriptions to Catholic periodicals and send us copied clippings. With the permission of his pastor, he began a lending library years ago before the internet when there was not much Catholic material available. He also sold statues, pictures and other sacramentals. His wife supported him in his efforts. We are saddened that at the age of 89 he is now on his death bed. It was written in a recent journal update by a family member: “Dad never stopped praying…through good times…through tough times…now he tells us he’s “holding onto the Lord”…never stop praying!”
http://www.caringbridge.org/assets/ugc/5g/6q/1h/51c798e5cb16b4995a7c1327.jpg
God bless him. If more of us were like him we could bring men and women to the Church. In the end, we cannot control what others do through trying to change things that cannot be changed, but by doing what your father in law did. Witness through his life.
 
If you want to catch more fish, you need to have the right bait and go where the fish are.

Just my 2 cents- I do not think our current parish culture encourages men to participate.
Other than Knights of Columbus, (and at 61 I am probably below the average age in my council) what other men’s group would a parish have?

Consider, in the secular world, a problem was perceived to exist, we do not have enough women in math and sciences. What did they do? They created programs to recruit, encourage, and mentor young women in math and science.
Today, the participation of men in the Catholic Church is arguably at an all time low. Where are the programs to recruit, encourage and mentor them? Maybe we do not want to be perceived as favoring men.

Maybe we think, hey, he’s an adult, man up. To coin a phrase.

Consider EWTN. How many programs appeal directly to me? Crossing the Goal and…nothing. At least nothing when I am awake. I did see a segment of spiritual fitness at 3 am once. Once.
 
The Church Impotent: The Feminization
of Christianity
by Leon J. Podles podles.org/church-impotent.htm
That sounds like the article I read some time in the past, and I have observed some of the things he talks about. I have visited many Protestant Churches and seen the same things. I recall one where the women controlled the coffee consumption of the men by secretly switching all the coffee to decaf. Another church, one of those mega churches had touchy feely small group meetings. In one group they were discussing “Gifts of the Holy Spirit” and everyone filled out a personal questionnaire that was designed to figure out one’s gift. At the next meeting, all the men who admitted to being unemployed on the questionnaire were told they have “The Gift of Poverty”. lol
 
Don’t these committees involve more politics? Don’t we have enough of that already in our daily lives?
Well, good point. I imagine I’d be like a bull in a china shop asking for more Gregorian chant instead of touchy-feely hymns… or perhaps more like a rooster in the henhouse… and would have battles on my hands from the get go.

Nah, I think I’ll just keep going to Mass at the abbey and chanting the LOTH at home. That way I won’t get under anybody’s skin… and the hokey liturgical add-ons and insipid hymns won’t get under mine.
 
One thing about homilies…

I honestly would prefer if the person giving a homily simply threw down the facts and made solid arguments. I have noticed a pattern whereby persons will create almost a litany of bad things. They will talk about the dangers of sin in an abstract way that is somehow related to the readings. Then they will list matters affecting our society like homosexuality, promiscuity, gay marriage, etc. And that’s it.

I think we need to actually go back to basics and construct relatively simple arguments according to natural law as to why these things are wrong. Because as much as other people in this forum will all agree that gay marriage is inherently a bad thing, I still walk out to my car later looking at the LGBT stickers on the back of peoples’ cars.

Besides making the mass more reverent (less pop music and more authentic mass), I think it might be the case that softer homilies have the opposite effect of what one could easily expect. If guys get the impression that people are saying everybody gets to go to Heaven no matter what they do, and nothing really matters anyway, but let’s all hold hands and sing these songs together, then I am pretty sure quite a lot of them are going to wonder why they should even bother.

Men tend to thrive on conflict. Take a stand and argue in that homily. It can’t hurt to try it once and see what happens. Once I realized that life is like a crusade and a battle for the salvation of Man, mass became quite a lot more interesting no matter what happens there. I think many men need that kind approach.
 
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