Given the principles of evolution, natural selection, survival of the fittest, etc, do you think belief in the supernatural will die out or become a m

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The Holy Eucharist, the Real Presence of Jesus Christ.
I thought about this.

To our senses and sight, the bread and wine remain the same, but we believe that they become the body and blood of Jesus Christ. The supernatural seems to be unseen, except for those who saw the risen Christ.

There are people who claim some supernatural event happen to them, but they can’t explain it.

Much like receiving the Eucharist, people ‘feel’ something, yet they don’t ‘see’ it.
 
Rossum,

Will you kindly explain to the newbies that an entirely new unique species does not drop from the sky as a couple of fully-formed, fully-complete individuals. A new species follows the evolution process as a significant population evolving from a previous large mixed genetic population(s).
I can but try. Take the two species of chimps: Chimpanzees (Pan troglodytes) and Bonobos (Pan paniscus). Their native habitats are on opposite banks of a major river, the Congo. At some point in the past all chimp ancestors were in one species and lived on one bank of the river. Then, for some reason a breeding population crossed the river and landed safely on the other bank. It could have been as small as two individuals, or even a pregnant mother. Perhaps they were swept away in a flood, managed to climb onto a floating log and reached the opposite bank?

There were then two different breeding populations on either bank of the river. Each population accumulated their own mutations, but both started with the same chimp-ancestor DNA (to within founder effect). Neither side had to develop wholly new systems; both had the same original systems to start with.

Humans are the same. There is no part of the human body that is not also present in both species of chimpanzee. The proportions are different: we have shorter arms, longer lags and bigger brains, but all the pieces we have are present in chimps. That is part of the evidence for us sharing a common ancestor with chimpanzees.

We see similar effects from geographical isolation in many species. Islands are particularly prone to this. For instance, Dodos were a species of pigeon. A breeding population arrived and evolved in isolation from other pigeons. They became flightless, because there was little need to escape predators, and became larger. Of course once man and the predators he introduced arrived…

The general point is that new species do not just appear, they develop from previously existing species. The only exception was that very first just-about-alive proto-cell 3.7 billion years ago.

rossum
 
I can but try. Take the two species of chimps: Chimpanzees (Pan troglodytes) and Bonobos (Pan paniscus). Their native habitats are on opposite banks of a major river, the Congo. At some point in the past all chimp ancestors were in one species and lived on one bank of the river. Then, for some reason a breeding population crossed the river and landed safely on the other bank. It could have been as small as two individuals, or even a pregnant mother. Perhaps they were swept away in a flood, managed to climb onto a floating log and reached the opposite bank?

There were then two different breeding populations on either bank of the river. Each population accumulated their own mutations, but both started with the same chimp-ancestor DNA (to within founder effect). Neither side had to develop wholly new systems; both had the same original systems to start with.

Humans are the same. There is no part of the human body that is not also present in both species of chimpanzee. The proportions are different: we have shorter arms, longer lags and bigger brains, but all the pieces we have are present in chimps. That is part of the evidence for us sharing a common ancestor with chimpanzees.

We see similar effects from geographical isolation in many species. Islands are particularly prone to this. For instance, Dodos were a species of pigeon. A breeding population arrived and evolved in isolation from other pigeons. They became flightless, because there was little need to escape predators, and became larger. Of course once man and the predators he introduced arrived…

The general point is that new species do not just appear, they develop from previously existing species. The only exception was that very first just-about-alive proto-cell 3.7 billion years ago.

rossum
Thank you sincerely for all that work.
Nature is amazing. I am always in awe.
 
I can but try. Take the two species of chimps: Chimpanzees (Pan troglodytes) and Bonobos (Pan paniscus). Their native habitats are on opposite banks of a major river, the Congo. At some point in the past all chimp ancestors were in one species and lived on one bank of the river. Then, for some reason a breeding population crossed the river and landed safely on the other bank. It could have been as small as two individuals, or even a pregnant mother. Perhaps they were swept away in a flood, managed to climb onto a floating log and reached the opposite bank?

There were then two different breeding populations on either bank of the river. Each population accumulated their own mutations, but both started with the same chimp-ancestor DNA (to within founder effect). Neither side had to develop wholly new systems; both had the same original systems to start with.

Humans are the same. There is no part of the human body that is not also present in both species of chimpanzee. The proportions are different: we have shorter arms, longer lags and bigger brains, but all the pieces we have are present in chimps. That is part of the evidence for us sharing a common ancestor with chimpanzees.

We see similar effects from geographical isolation in many species. Islands are particularly prone to this. For instance, Dodos were a species of pigeon. A breeding population arrived and evolved in isolation from other pigeons. They became flightless, because there was little need to escape predators, and became larger. Of course once man and the predators he introduced arrived…

The general point is that new species do not just appear, they develop from previously existing species. The only exception was that very first just-about-alive proto-cell 3.7 billion years ago.

rossum
There is ZERO evidence for Species to Species evolution.
 
There is ZERO evidence for Species to Species evolution.
So you are a promoter of the “Evilution Theory” Conspiracy. The idea that Scientists are lying to us about the evidence in order to undermine the Christian faith.
 
So you are a promoter of the “Evilution Theory” Conspiracy. The idea that Scientists are lying to us about the evidence in order to undermine the Christian faith.
What? How dare you. I am saying that evolution is theory and has NEVER been proven. I don’t think scientists have a clue, and they are not trying to undermine the Christian faith, although there are powers that be who would like to undermine the Christian faith in the name of Science.
 
I am saying that evolution is theory and has NEVER been proven.
Quite right. Theories are explanations. They cannot be proven.

I’m at a loss that you can describe scientists as not having a clue whilst indicating that you don’t even understand the meaning of such basic terms as theory and indicate a complete lack of understanding of the subject at hand.
 
What? How dare you.
Glad to have ruffled your feathers.
I am saying that evolution is theory and has NEVER been proven. I don’t think scientists have a clue, and they are not trying to undermine the Christian faith, although there are powers that be who would like to undermine the Christian faith in the name of Science.
Well, we generally accept other scientific theories as true (they have supporting evidence). So why do people such as yourself discriminate against the theory of evolution? You obviously subscribe to the belief that we are being hoodwinked by the scientific community.
 
Well, we generally accept other scientific theories as true (they have supporting evidence). So why do people such as yourself discriminate against the theory of evolution? You obviously subscribe to the belief that we are being hoodwinked by the scientific community.
The ToE is a good explanation as to how life is constantly adapting, to an ever changing environment. I have no problems with scientists using this theory to develop medicines, or engineers using it to evolve antennae. The problem arises when you try and use this theory, to extrapolate back three and a half billion years to single cell life, it fails.

Firstly, evolution could not happen, if God was not there to guide it, life is too complex.

Secondly, some scientists seem to be using the ToE to try and prove there is no God.

Third, if God is in control, we should look to scriptures. Adam and Eve dispels the notion that we share a common ancestor.

ToE has no great meaning to me one way or the other, the greater question is to search for God.
 
There is ZERO evidence for Species to Species evolution.
You are being lied to by your sources. See deVries (1905) and Tauber and Tauber (1977) for just two examples of species to species evolution.

Even young earth creationists have mostly moved on from that position. They now accept evolution from species to species as long as the two species are within the same Biblical ‘kind’. The Ark was too small to hold a pair (or more) of every known species. Hence the reduction to kinds to make sure the Ark would have been big enough.

After the flood there was a lot of species to species evolution (albeit) within kinds) to produce the large variety of species we see today.

Paradoxically young earthism requires very fast evolution to get all those new species established in just a few thousand years.

rossum
 
I am saying that evolution is theory and has NEVER been proven.
Correct. Scientific theories cannot be proven as there is always the possibility that they will be replaced by a better theory.

Newton’s theory of gravity was never proven either, which is just as well since Einstein produced a better theory of gravity which replaced it. Einstein’s theory of gravity (aka General Relativity) is not proven and will be replaced in its turn by a better theory. Scientists are currently working on a theory of Quantum Gravity to replace GR.

A scientific theory is “the best explanation we currently have”. All theories are open to replacement by a better explanation. Evolution is no exception.

rossum
 
Correct. Scientific theories cannot be proven as there is always the possibility that they will be replaced by a better theory.

Newton’s theory of gravity was never proven either, which is just as well since Einstein produced a better theory of gravity which replaced it. Einstein’s theory of gravity (aka General Relativity) is not proven and will be replaced in its turn by a better theory. Scientists are currently working on a theory of Quantum Gravity to replace GR.

A scientific theory is “the best explanation we currently have”. All theories are open to replacement by a better explanation. Evolution is no exception.
Scientific theories cannot prove persons are the products of evolution for the simple reason that science itself would not exist without persons. It would amount to science explaining itself!
 
What? How dare you. I am saying that evolution is theory and has NEVER been proven. I don’t think scientists have a clue, and they are not trying to undermine the Christian faith, although there are powers that be who would like to undermine the Christian faith in the name of Science.
You’re the one in schism, bringing disunity to your Church.

On one side there’s Catholic schools, Catholic Universities, Catholic scientists, Catholic philosophers, Catholic theologians, the Vatican and most Catholics.

And on the other there’s you and your band of American creationists. I found on another thread that creationists give greater loyalty to the Discovery Institute than to the Pope. You guys have no right to speak for Christians, you gave up that right when you rebelled.
 
What? How dare you. I am saying that evolution is theory and has NEVER been proven. I don’t think scientists have a clue, and they are not trying to undermine the Christian faith, although there are powers that be who would like to undermine the Christian faith in the name of Science.
There are others who constantly seek to sow discord within the Catholic Church on threads which have nothing to do with the Catholic Church!
 
There are others who constantly seek to sow discord within the Catholic Church on threads which have nothing to do with the Catholic Church!
👍

And worse, to alienate others as they are themselves from the truth.
 
I think the biggest question science could try and answer is this, did the universe and life come into existence by purely natural causes? Or did it need a creator God?
When there was nothing i.e. non-existence, there are no natural causes. There was no “nature”.
 
You’re the one in schism, bringing disunity to your Church.

On one side there’s Catholic schools, Catholic Universities, Catholic scientists, Catholic philosophers, Catholic theologians, the Vatican and most Catholics.

And on the other there’s you and your band of American creationists. I found on another thread that creationists give greater loyalty to the Discovery Institute than to the Pope. You guys have no right to speak for Christians, you gave up that right when you rebelled.
You’ve got no right to speak for Baptists then. I speak for myself and I am a Christian and a Catholic and a human being. Catholics didn’t rebel, Protestants rebelled. I think Christians should stand together, but apparently you don’t.
 
You’re the one in schism, bringing disunity to your Church.

On one side there’s Catholic schools, Catholic Universities, Catholic scientists, Catholic philosophers, Catholic theologians, the Vatican and most Catholics.

And on the other there’s you and your band of American creationists. I found on another thread that creationists give greater loyalty to the Discovery Institute than to the Pope. You guys have no right to speak for Christians, you gave up that right when you rebelled.
There is no reason why I should continue on this thread.
The actual truth as to how the visible Catholic Church operates is down the drain.
 
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