Glenn Beck says to run away from churches who preach social justice?

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Ahhh, got it.
You’ve clarified.
You’d rather agree with someone who has left the faith
if his personal agenda matches yours.

No more questions.
If I hear much more BS from the liberal USCCB, I’ll leave the “Faith” myself. It isn’t a personal agenda with me, it is what is moral and right and follows the bible and catechism.
When Glen Beck is right, he’s right. When the USCCB is wrong, and they certainly can be, they are wrong.

Get a grip and think for Christ’s sakes. There are, as you might know by now, some very very wrong Catholics at very high levels of the clergy and some very very right folks who are not catholic.
Good Grief.
 
If I hear much more BS from the liberal USCCB, I’ll leave the “Faith” myself. It isn’t a personal agenda with me, it is what is moral and right and follows the bible and catechism.
When Glen Beck is right, he’s right. When the USCCB is wrong, and they certainly can be, they are wrong.

Get a grip and think for Christ’s sakes. There are, as you might know by now, some very very wrong Catholics at very high levels of the clergy and some very very right folks who are not catholic.
Good Grief.
Hmmmmmmmm.
“BS” from the bishops?
Is that vulgarity speaking?
Maybe you’re already a foot out the door? No?
Just habitually vulgar about those who follow the apostles?
Kind of odd, IMO.
 
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catharina:
One last thing thing Catherina, I was speaking in generalities, not to 4elise in particular, however, you apparently lack reading skills or are just plain nasty and uncharitable to those whom you disagree.

that is not unusual coming from “progressives”, the most intolerant and negative people in politics.

I am done.
 
What I was trying to say… (no attempt to be incendiary)… was that some have said that ‘liberals’ are guilty of relativism because they advocate for Social Justice as it is taught by the Church.

It is possible to be pro life / and pro social justice - in fact they really are part of the same thing… the value of ALL people ALL life made in God’s image.

I have tried to be clear that I recognize that good Catholics may ‘draw the line’ in a different place as to how much involvement the government should have - I do not suppose that anyone who disagrees with me has ill will.

I do believe however that to reject the social justice teaching of the church is as much a form of relativism and any other attempt to adjust the Church to ones own world view.

THEREFORE - Beck’s advise to run away from a Church which teaches Social Justice should - for Catholics IMHO - cast his comments, his opinions, his world view - to be suspect and certainly counter to OUR Church.

As we all celebrate the Resurrection of our Lord in only hours… may we as Catholics strive to bring civility to discussions, may we strive to keep the needs of the poor at the heart of our individual and community decisions - may our LIVES and our ACTIONS reflect our knowledge that we are only here in this life briefly - and that all our choices should reflect our love of Christ, and ALL our brothers and sisters.

Wishing all a very blessed Easter!
 
One last thing thing Catherina, I was speaking in generalities, not to 4elise in particular, however, you apparently lack reading skills or are just plain nasty and uncharitable to those whom you disagree.

that is not unusual coming from “progressives”, the most intolerant and negative people in politics.

I am done.
Thank you for the Easter wishes.

I feel that I really have to address your post to Catherina -
Do you see anything ironic about this negative and name calling post?

Wishing you peace and every Easter blessing
 
What I was trying to say… (no attempt to be incendiary)… was that some have said that ‘liberals’ are guilty of relativism because they advocate for Social Justice as it is taught by the Church.

It is possible to be pro life / and pro social justice - in fact they really are part of the same thing… the value of ALL people ALL life made in God’s image.

I have tried to be clear that I recognize that good Catholics may ‘draw the line’ in a different place as to how much involvement the government should have - I do not suppose that anyone who disagrees with me has ill will.

I do believe however that to reject the social justice teaching of the church is as much a form of relativism and any other attempt to adjust the Church to ones own world view.

THEREFORE - Beck’s advise to run away from a Church which teaches Social Justice should - for Catholics IMHO - cast his comments, his opinions, his world view - to be suspect and certainly counter to OUR Church.

As we all celebrate the Resurrection of our Lord in only hours… may we as Catholics strive to bring civility to discussions, may we strive to keep the needs of the poor at the heart of our individual and community decisions - may our LIVES and our ACTIONS reflect our knowledge that we are only here in this life briefly - and that all our choices should reflect our love of Christ, and ALL our brothers and sisters.

Wishing all a very blessed Easter!
Certainly completely agree with views of 4elise.

In addition I must add that the OP was concerned re comments of Glenn Beck that were specifically odious to Catholics since he spoke of terms that apply to the Catholic faith. Telling folks ‘if your priest pushes social justice, go find another parish.’ Priest, parish — those aren’t terms used in mormon gatherings on the “ward” level. Beck is divisive in a very pointed way.

If some choose to be blind to that fact, “there are none so blind as those who will not see.”
 
Thank you for the Easter wishes.

I feel that I really have to address your post to Catherina -
Do you see anything ironic about this negative and name calling post?

Wishing you peace and every Easter blessing
Yes… I do… from myself and her… it was my error to try to argue with her. and getting angry. but maybe I wasnt clear myself… I hate flame wars…

People do not have to agree with me to be my friend… just respect me.
 
How about you research subsidiarity and then write back.
Thank you… I do appreciate the discussion regarding the roll of the government as regards to how much is right / appropriate / effective / ultimately good for the individual is appropriate.

What I resist is the implication that to stand in support of the Social Justice Teaching of our Church should call one to be suspect - Social Justice is part of the teaching of the Catholic Church if one wants to accept that or not - Pro Life / Social Justice / it is ALL part of our Church.

Beck sees something suspect about that - and encourages people to leave their Church if they hear that ‘code word’ ---- perhaps Catholics should help Beck understand what Social Justice means for us.

Easter Blessing
 
Yes… I do… from myself and her… it was my error to try to argue with her. and getting angry. but maybe I wasnt clear myself… I hate flame wars…

People do not have to agree with me to be my friend… just respect me.
It can be challenging to maintain a respectful tone on the threads, can’t it? 😊 But hopefully as each of us try we can raise the level - this is after all CATHOLIC answers! We can disagree without being disagreeable of course!

Blessings to you and yours!
 
Certainly completely agree with views of 4elise.

In addition I must add that the OP was concerned re comments of Glenn Beck that were specifically odious to Catholics since he spoke of terms that apply to the Catholic faith. Telling folks ‘if your priest pushes social justice, go find another parish.’ Priest, parish — those aren’t terms used in mormon gatherings on the “ward” level. Beck is divisive in a very pointed way.

If some choose to be blind to that fact, “there are none so blind as those who will not see.”
I know that was the reason that I felt it was important to discuss too… it seemed specifically addressed to Catholics. I guess Anglicans too have priests and parishes… but it did seem to be more targeted to Catholics perhaps only because it is what I can relate to…

We can try to discuss this but there seems to be so much read into disagreeing with Beck’s statements - some have implied that standing up for the Social Justice Teaching of our Church makes one a socialist, when in fact it just makes us Catholic.

We do have to agree however that some people - good people of faith - come to a different conclusion about HOW the government (our elected representatives) work for the common good - two good Catholics, with good intentions can have different views on the HOW ---- but IMHO we as Catholic can NOT deny that Social Justice is part of our Church.

Lets continue to pray for each other - those with whom we find it easy to agree and those who push our buttons - let none of us give into the vitriolic speech (I guess that would be typing;)) which only contribute to the ugliness… we are better than that.

Blessings!
 
Thank you… I do appreciate the discussion regarding the roll of the government as regards to how much is right / appropriate / effective / ultimately good for the individual is appropriate.

What I resist is the implication that to stand in support of the Social Justice Teaching of our Church should call one to be suspect - Social Justice is part of the teaching of the Catholic Church if one wants to accept that or not - Pro Life / Social Justice / it is ALL part of our Church.

Beck sees something suspect about that - and encourages people to leave their Church if they hear that ‘code word’ ---- perhaps Catholics should help Beck understand what Social Justice means for us.

Easter Blessing
Reminding all that when Pope Leo XIII directed the Church to care for the working man in regard to justice, (Rerum Novarum), the Catholic world rejoiced.

webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:exlY7N_vqB0J:www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_15051891_rerum-novarum_en.html+leo+xiii,+social+justice+for+the+working+man&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

An example from the encyclical: “First of all, there is no intermediary more powerful than religion (whereof the Church is the interpreter and guardian) in drawing the rich and the working class together, by reminding each of its duties to the other, and especially of the obligations of justice.”

Those words were presented in 1891, an early-warning bell for the teachings of today, teachings that insist on justice for the poor. How can any object now?
 
PS re Pope Leo XIII:
He was a staunch defender of Thomism (work of Aquinas).
 
I think Glenn Beck is great and I saw what he is talking about in several churches I went to…the progressives were out to destroy the church from within and a few of them even said so! So I left. They are very sneaky and underhanded.
 
I think Glenn Beck is great and I saw what he is talking about in several churches I went to…the progressives were out to destroy the church from within and a few of them even said so! So I left. They are very sneaky and underhanded.
You are saying jewells that some ‘progressives’ at a Catholic Church you attended told you that they are trying to destroy the Church?

If so I think the label should not be ‘progressives’ but something else - perhaps anti-Catholics.

Happy Easter!
Off to a Sunrise Mass!
 
Regarding social justice at work, too many people, including the Church, don’t understand or care to make the effort to understand basic business economics. If a person gets paid $30,000 per year and produces $50,000 worth of product or service per year, how much should they get paid (justice)???

If you say they should get paid $50,000, you’re wrong. Why? Because $50K produced minus $50K paid = $0 dollars left to run the business. Now multiply times 20 employees:

$1,000,000 in money paid IN by consumers who bought the business’ product or service
-$1,000,000 in money paid OUT by the boss in the form of paychecks to employees
= $0 in profit. Think about it. How would you feel if you recieved your paycheck and it said $0. Would you keep working there? Of course not. So don’t expect the boss to make $0 either. The boss didn’t hire, train, and manage 20 people for a $0 paycheck.

This individualist more-passion, less-facts version of social justice is what Beck means.

Happy Easter to all!
 
Regarding social justice at work, too many people, including the Church, don’t understand or care to make the effort to understand basic business economics. If a person gets paid $30,000 per year and produces $50,000 worth of product or service per year, how much should they get paid (justice)???

If you say they should get paid $50,000, you’re wrong. Why? Because $50K produced minus $50K paid = $0 dollars left to run the business. Now multiply times 20 employees:

$1,000,000 in money paid IN by consumers who bought the business’ product or service
-$1,000,000 in money paid OUT by the boss in the form of paychecks to employees
= $0 in profit. Think about it. How would you feel if you recieved your paycheck and it said $0. Would you keep working there? Of course not. So don’t expect the boss to make $0 either. The boss didn’t hire, train, and manage 20 people for a $0 paycheck.

This individualist more-passion, less-facts version of social justice is what Beck means.

Happy Easter to all!
Happy Easter to you.
Regardless of what Beck might mean,
the Church teaches Social Justice as a virtue,
not as a tract on economics, gain/loss spreadsheet.

As a former Catholic, Beck only demeans himself when he “advises” Catholics on virtue.
 
Regarding social justice at work, too many people, including the Church, don’t understand or care to make the effort to understand basic business economics. If a person gets paid $30,000 per year and produces $50,000 worth of product or service per year, how much should they get paid (justice)???

If you say they should get paid $50,000, you’re wrong. Why? Because $50K produced minus $50K paid = $0 dollars left to run the business. Now multiply times 20 employees:

$1,000,000 in money paid IN by consumers who bought the business’ product or service
-$1,000,000 in money paid OUT by the boss in the form of paychecks to employees
= $0 in profit. Think about it. How would you feel if you recieved your paycheck and it said $0. Would you keep working there? Of course not. So don’t expect the boss to make $0 either. The boss didn’t hire, train, and manage 20 people for a $0 paycheck.

This individualist more-passion, less-facts version of social justice is what Beck means.

Happy Easter to all!
Why do you think that this is what those proponents of Social Justice are talking about?
Why do you think that this is what Beck is talking about?

Obviously the ‘boss’ is not to do without.
Obviously the ‘boss’ has to have income, be able to provide for his family. To continue to provide jobs.
So too the workers. That is where the justice comes in. ALL people are made in God’s image - all are saved by the life, death and resurrection of Christ. All are worthy of the basics of life, work, safety, shelter, food, water, health care. Those who work hard do deserve to reap the rewards of their work (worker or boss) - they then - as individuals can share their gifts.

However the opportunities for education, work, safety, shelter, etc are not available universarly - through no fault of the individual in many cases - unfortunately.
We as Catholics must speak out for the poor - our Church tells us that we need to keep that preference for the poor in our hearts and at the center of our decision making.

Beck and others like him on both sides of the issues are not bringing up these issues to stir debate on the roll of faith in politics - it is IMHO incendiary, ratings generating, commercial selling, self motivated.

WE CATHOLICS need to be the voice that dials it down - that calls for reason in the debate, that refuses to engage in this kind of name calling, stone throwing, anger generating, hate generating, divisive language.

WE CATHOLICS should be the ones who call for a break from this nonsense.
Today - Easter - we come to the empty tomb - Christ is risen for ALL - the worker - the boss - and YES our Catholic Church teaches Social Justice. It is NOT a code, it isn’t hidden - IT IS CHALLENGING!
 
nccbuscc.org/sdwp/catholicteachingprinciples.shtml

The Seven Themes of Catholic Social Teaching
Code:
* Catholic Teaching on the Life and Dignity of the Human Person: Every human person is created in the image and likeness of God. Therefore, each person’s life and dignity must be respected, whether that person is an innocent unborn child in a mother’s womb, whether that person worked in the World Trade Center or a market in Baghdad, or even whether that person is a convicted criminal on death row.** We believe that every human life is sacred from conception to natural death, that people are more important than things, and that the measure of every institution is whether it protects and respects the life and dignity of the human person**. —USCCB Administrative Committee, Faithful Citizenship: A Catholic Call to Political Responsibility, p. 13

* Catholic Teaching on the Call to Family, Community, and Participation: The human person is not only sacred, but social. The God-given institutions of marriage— a lifelong commitment between a man and a woman—and family are central and serve as the foundations for social life. Marriage and family should be supported and strengthened, not undermined. **Every person has a right to participate in social, economic, and political life and a corresponding duty to work for the advancement of the common good and the well-being of all, especially the poor and weak.** —USCCB Administrative Committee, Faithful Citizenship: A Catholic Call to Political Responsibility, p. 13

* Catholic Teaching on Solidarity: We are one human family. We are our brothers’ and sisters’ keepers, wherever they may be. Pope John Paul II insists, “We are all really responsible for all.” Loving our neighbor has global dimensions in a shrinking world. **At the core of the virtue of solidarity is the pursuit of justice and peace. Pope Paul VI taught that “if you want peace, work for justice.” **The Gospel calls us to be “peacemakers.” Our love for all our sisters and brothers demands that we be “sentinels of peace” in a world wounded by violence and conflict. —USCCB Administrative Committee, Faithful Citizenship: A Catholic Call to Political Responsibility, p. 15

* Catholic Teaching on the Dignity of Work: **The economy must serve people, not the other way around. **Work is more than a way to make a living; it is a form of continuing participation in God’s act of creation. **If the dignity of work is to be protected, then the basic rights of workers, owners, and others must be respected—the right to productive work, to decent and fair wages, to organize and choose to join a union, to economic initiative, and to ownership and private property. These rights must be exercised in ways that advance the common good**. —USCCB Administrative Committee, Faithful Citizenship: A Catholic Call to Political Responsibility, p. 15

* Catholic Teaching on Rights and Responsibilities: Every person has a fundamental right to life— the right that makes all other rights possible**. Each person also has a right to the conditions for living a decent life—faith and family life, food and shelter, education and employment, health care and housing.** We also have a duty to secure and respect these rights not only for ourselves, but for others, and to fulfill our responsibilities to our families, to each other, and to the larger society. —USCCB Administrative Committee, Faithful Citizenship: A Catholic Call to Political Responsibility, p. 14

* Catholic Teaching on the Option for the Poor and Vulnerable: Scripture teaches that God has a special concern for the poor and vulnerable. The Church calls on all of us to embrace this preferential option for the poor and vulnerable, to embody it in our lives, and to work to have it shape public policies and priorities. **A fundamental measure of our society is how we care for and stand with the poor and vulnerable**. —USCCB Administrative Committee, Faithful Citizenship: A Catholic Call to Political Responsibility, p. 15

* Catholic Teaching on Caring for God’s Creation: The world that God created has been entrusted to us. Our use of it must be directed by God’s plan for creation, not simply for our own benefit. Our stewardship of the Earth is a form of participation in God’s act of creating and sustaining the world.** In our use of creation, we must be guided by a concern for generations to come. We show our respect for the Creator by our care for creation.** —USCCB Administrative Committee, Faithful Citizenship: A Catholic Call to Political Responsibility, p. 15
 
4elise - thank you for quoting at such length.

Happy Easter Morn.
He is risen! Alleluia!
 
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