I think it’s pretty clear:
“And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. -Rev. 20:10
Magnanimity:
Ah, the quoting of scripture as if it can do our arguing for us…it is tempting, isn’t it?
Right back atcha: ““For this we toil and struggle, because we have set our hope on the living God, who is the savior of all , especially of those who believe.” 1 Tim 4:10.”
Seems pretty clear to me that St Paul asserts that Christ is the savior of
all, but especially of folks like you and me (those who believe). So then, He is everyone’s savior-all-no exceptions–even the savior of those folks you think are headed for Hell (the others)… Case closed, right? Or maybe we can’t simply quote scriptures and pretend that those scriptures do our arguing for us. Maybe…?
So, feel free to let us know just what is “clear” about Rev 20:10. Is it the chemical composition of the lake? The sulfur? Is it the location of the lake? Out in space? Center of the Earth? If it’s a lake comprised of sulfur, then it’s physical in nature, which means it takes up space and has mass, I guess? They’ll be tormented “day and night,” so the lake revolves around a star? And how does a pure spirit (like Satan) get “thrown?”
Of course, I’m not really looking for your explanations of any of this. I only probe to illustrate the “clear as mud” nature of taking this verse is some literalistic way…
I reiterate, "to presume that humans will certainly be in Hell is itself a “sin of presumption.” It is a particularly nasty presumption too, borne, not out of Catholicism or even of Christianity but of Augustinianism. You are likely not aware of this, but your level of awareness makes no difference to the historical record.
Original sin/massa damnata/we know with certainty that souls are in Hell - all of this nastiness comes straight from the theology of St Augustine, and up through the scholastics and even lingers around the church today, as is evidenced by CCC 1033… It’s sad, but that’s the historical reality. Thanks be to God, however, that the East is much less excited about the bleak vision of St Augustine, as are the patristics, as are the greatest Catholic and Orthodox minds of the last 100 years.
But the Sacred Scriptures are obvious, regardless of rather whimsical hopes that all will be saved. Eternal damnation of souls is as real as the eternal damnation of the fallen angels,
You, sir or madam, are a true Augustinian. I can’t quite congratulate you for this, but I don’t blame you either. His shadow has loomed large on the western church…
St Augustine had many fine things to contribute. (I’ve read his Confessions.) But,
massa damnata is much more bizarre and ugly than it is “fine.”