God forced me into existence

[Zatzat]

This is wrong. What you’re forgetting (or perhaps just don’t know) is that the Church teaches that even if you can’t confess your sin, contrition before death will satisfy. You’ll probably be in Purgatory for a while, but you can still go to Heaven.

Zatzat, do you know why we should worship God, assuming He exists?

Because he wants our adoration or because we’re apparently better off adoring an invisible supernatural God?

 

[Zatzat]

So do you disagree with God that your existing is better than your non-existing? Which would you prefer at this moment? And do you think, once existing, that a being maybe should choose evil over goodness? Is justice *not *served by giving one existence and then only demanding they do what’s right?

If eternal agony in hell is real…it would be better never to have existed.

We’re basically commanded to** love**. We’re not forced to do so and yet, can we really argue against the justice in being commanded to? Perhaps there’s an “injustice”-a disorder of sorts-in* us*, that means that we don’t love as we really ought-an injustice that, at it’s extreme, is the cause of the most heinous evils the world has known. And that’s the purpose of the redemption-to bring us back to the beings God has in mind. Is that a bad thing?

Yes, it is a bad thing. God should allow us to completely opt out of his scheme.

 

[Zatzat]

No existence , no choice, no opportunity, no free-will, no eternity with God.

Non-existance = no risk of eternal damnation in the deepest darkest pits of hell.

 

[Zatzat]

You are also forgetting, as atheists often do, that there is another side to the equation. The other side is that God is offering you eternal salvation and everlasting joy. In fact He is offering you partnership in His Divine Nature ( 2nd Peter 1:4) where we will share in the love of the family that is the Trinity forever!

Bah! He’s offering it to me through threat.

**LOVE ME OR ELSE!!! **

 

[Zatzat]

…

And that’s a issue because … ?

I’ve been created by God, will live for a short time on earth and then will spend all of eternity being tortured in hell.

 

[coolduude]

Because he wants our adoration or because we’re apparently better off adoring an invisible supernatural God?

Not really

Assuming that God exists, we should worship Him because we owe everything to Him. Think about it- if God never created we 1) wouldn’t exist and 2) even if we did somehow exist, we would have nothing.

We owe our very existence to God indirectly and we owe our souls to Him directly. Thus, if God exists we must worship Him.

He told us we had to anyway

 

[Zatzat]

Not really

Assuming that God exists, we should worship Him because we owe everything to Him. Think about it- if God never created we 1) wouldn’t exist and 2) even if we did somehow exist, we would have nothing.

We owe our very existence to God indirectly and we owe our souls to Him directly. Thus, if God exists we must worship Him.

He told us we had to anyway

You’re proving my point quite nicely.

Thanks to God, we exist. We now face the possibility of an eternity of agony in hell.

All because we exist.

If we didn’t exist, we wouldn’t face living in torment for eternity in hell. However, God has forced us into existence and forced us to either love him or reject him.

Thanks a lot God.

 

[buffalo]

I’ve been created by God, will live for a short time on earth and then will spend all of eternity being tortured in hell.

Then it is time to shape up. One of the tortures of hell is having to deal with your own decision.

 

[Zatzat]

Then it is time to shape up. One of the tortures of hell is having to deal with your own decision.

My own decision in being brought into existence?

Uhm, sorry Buffalo, but I didn’t make that decision. Your God apparently forced me into existence and then has forced me to love him or reject him.

By all accounts, God won’t allow me to opt out of his scheme and have nothing to do with heaven or hell. God says to me;

’ Love me or else!!!’

 

[buffalo]

My own decision in being brought into existence?

Uhm, sorry Buffalo, but I didn’t make that decision. Your God apparently forced me into existence and then has forced me to love him or reject him.

By all accounts, God won’t allow me to opt out of his scheme and have nothing to do with heaven or hell. God says to me;

’ Love me or else!!!’

One of the tortures of hell is having to deal with your decision not to love Him. Given the reality of God, you had better shape up. It is irrational not to.

 

[Zatzat]

One of the tortures of hell is having to deal with your decision not to love Him. Given the reality of God, you had better shape up. It is irrational not to.

God tries to force me to love him through threat of torture.

I’d rather not love him or reject him.

I’d rather opt out of his entire scheme…have nothing to do with the whole lot.

Unfortunately, God insists that I partake in his game.

How sad that God meddles with people that way. He forces us into existence, holds us accountable for the sins of our forefathers and through threat of eternal damnation, demands that we love him.

Of course, we’re free to reject him, which sends us to a place of eternal torture for all of eternity.

Yeah, that’s some serious free will going on.

’ You’re free to reject me, but you’re going to hell if you do’.

 

[po18guy]

God loved you into existence. The “feeling” of being forced is a mere emotion, and bears no relation to the truth. You clearly prefer to exist and to grow, as you have not killed yourself, and have kept inquiring. This opens the possibility of an eternal purpose for your life.

 

[Zatzat]

God loved you into existence. The “feeling” of being forced is a mere emotion, and bears no relation to the truth. You clearly prefer to exist and to grow, as you have not killed yourself, and have kept inquiring. This opens the possibility of an eternal purpose for your life.

I haven’t killed myself because I value my life. I value my family, friends and experiences. It has nothing at to do with the God you choose to believe in.

 

[coolduude]

“Another possible assumption is that the only purpose of this life is to choose to follow God or reject Him. This is also false. This life is used as a measure of reward and punishment. All who accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior will go to heaven, but the amount of reward in heaven will be directly related to how closely each one followed God’s will in his life. Likewise, all those who reject Jesus Christ will go to hell and will be punished to the degree of how much evil they committed in their life. This is why God allows people to make their own choices.” (godandscience.org/apologetics/destined.htm)

The only part you should ignore is ‘accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior’

 

[buffalo]

God tries to force me to love him through threat of torture.

I’d rather not love him or reject him.

I’d rather opt out of his entire scheme…have nothing to do with the whole lot.

Unfortunately, God insists that I partake in his game.

How sad that God meddles with people that way. He forces us into existence, holds us accountable for the sins of our forefathers and through threat of eternal damnation, demands that we love him.

Of course, we’re free to reject him, which sends us to a place of eternal torture for all of eternity.

Yeah, that’s some serious free will going on.

’ You’re free to reject me, but you’re going to hell if you do’.

God created Adam and Eve with preternatural gifts. God’s creation is good. Because of their free will choice their descendants have original sin. However, baptism washes this away. God so loved the fallen world that He sent His son to open the gates of heaven.

So to make God out as the bad guy is incorrect. Time and time again man has failed to be in God’s friendship and He keep the door open. He is all merciful, even to you. The journey here on earth purifies us to maximize our capacity to experience God. Even your anguish is part of that journey. You are on a Catholic forum. You have debated with Catholics. You are beginning to learn the truth. It is difficult to face the truth given your own doubts. However if you continue here with an open heart you can turn to God and He will welcome you with outstretched arms and take you into His bosom.

The intellectual struggle can be very difficult indeed.

 

[buffalo]

I haven’t killed myself because I value my life. I value my family, friends and experiences. It has nothing at to do with the God you choose to believe in.

Why do you have values at all?

And to your second part - yes it does. You e were not born in a vacuum. If you were born and abandoned on an island you would not know any of this. You love because you have been loved. God is love.

 

[LilyM]

My own decision in being brought into existence?

Uhm, sorry Buffalo, but I didn’t make that decision. Your God apparently forced me into existence and then has forced me to love him or reject him.

By all accounts, God won’t allow me to opt out of his scheme and have nothing to do with heaven or hell. God says to me;

’ Love me or else!!!’

Well, I wasn’t given any choice in the fact that I have a genetic disease. Obviously given by one or other of my parents who passed faulty genes on to me.

I have to deal, as unfair as it may seem. I can’t opt out of having the disease.

My decision is to take one of two courses. On the one hand, I can adopt a mature attitude, make the choice to love my parents in spite of the hand they dealt me, and make the best of my life with this condition.

On the other, I can whinge like a two-year-old baby and just cry ‘unfair, unfair’ at everyone for the rest of my life. Which does not the slightest bit of good for anyone concerned.

 

[Zatzat]

Why do you have values at all?

And to your second part - yes it does. You e were not born in a vacuum. If you were born and abandoned on an island you would not know any of this. You love because you have been loved. God is love.

I have values because of the society I live in, the family I was raised in, the friends I socialize with,the genes I possess…all Godless.

 

[Zatzat]

God created Adam and Eve with preternatural gifts. God’s creation is good. Because of their free will choice their descendants have original sin. However, baptism washes this away. God so loved the fallen world that He sent His son to open the gates of heaven.

So to make God out as the bad guy is incorrect. Time and time again man has failed to be in God’s friendship and He keep the door open. He is all merciful, even to you. The journey here on earth purifies us to maximize our capacity to experience God. Even your anguish is part of that journey. You are on a Catholic forum. You have debated with Catholics. You are beginning to learn the truth. It is difficult to face the truth given your own doubts. However if you continue here with an open heart you can turn to God and He will welcome you with outstretched arms and take you into His bosom.

The intellectual struggle can be very difficult indeed.

You haven’t at all addressed the fact that God forced me into existence and I run the very serious risk of suffering eternally in hell.

 

[buffalo]

I have values because of the society I live in, the family I was raised in, the friends I socialize with,the genes I possess…all Godless.

Not really - there is more God in there than you admit.