God Has a Body (Flesh & Blood) Is That a Mormon Teaching?

[BJ_Colbert]

Dupre,
Why would the Catholic Church recognize our baptism and why should they? We don’t recognize any other churches baptism and don’t expect them to recognize ours. That does not mean we don’t recognize the Catholics as Christian. Anyone who believes in Jesus Christ as their saviour and redeemer is Christian. Even though the translation is different He is still the same God over all of us whether you like it or not. He is the same and always will be no matter what spin you want to put on it.

 

[Apologia100]

BJ Colbert:

Dupre,
Why would the Catholic Church recognize our baptism and why should they? We don’t recognize any other churches baptism and don’t expect them to recognize ours. That does not mean we don’t recognize the Catholics as Christian. Anyone who believes in Jesus Christ as their saviour and redeemer is Christian. Even though the translation is different He is still the same God over all of us whether you like it or not. He is the same and always will be no matter what spin you want to put on it.

This is true, as long as you also understand the true nature of the Trinity. If you have a flawed understanding of the Trinity, and you are baptised within a flawed construct of the Trinity, then the baptism in invalid, because you are not being baptised within the Christian context of the word. That is a simple ceremonial washing, but it does not have the sin purging effect of a Christian baptism.

 

[BJ_Colbert]

You are right, It is a flawed understanding as you understand the Trinity, but for me it is just the opposite my understanding makes much more sense to me, and I do not think God wants us to be confused about who He is and what He looks like. I think it only matters that we believe in Him in whatever way our understanding of Him is. In our hearts we love and adore Him and pray always that He will bless us with understanding and that we can improve daily in regards to keeping His commandments and becoming more like Him, although we will never reach perfection, it is enough that we are trying. Jesus paid the price with his death on the Cross to complete what we can not do ourselves. As long as we try in our various understandings it is enough and I know He loves us all equally as His children.

 

[Apologia100]

BJ Colbert:

You are right, It is a flawed understanding as you understand the Trinity, but for me it is just the opposite my understanding makes much more sense to me, and I do not think God wants us to be confused about who He is and what He looks like. I think it only matters that we believe in Him in whatever way our understanding of Him is. In our hearts we love and adore Him and pray always that He will bless us with understanding and that we can improve daily in regards to keeping His commandments and becoming more like Him, although we will never reach perfection, it is enough that we are trying. Jesus paid the price with his death on the Cross to complete what we can not do ourselves. As long as we try in our various understandings it is enough and I know He loves us all equally as His children.

No, understanding exactly who and what God is is the fundemental aspect of faith. It is very different if Joe believes that God is a furry pink bunny rabbit, and Frank believes God is infinately unchangable, all powerful, and all knowing. What you believe about something affects your relationship with it.

 

[PaulDupre]

Veronica Anne:

By the way, I have a male friend who made it up to the 5th ring or so of the LDS heierarchy before he converted to Roman Catholic. He advises me that the missionaries who ride their bikes, 2 by 2, around town are NOT told the more intricate matters of the LDS church’s belief system until they are pretty well entrenched in LDS as their entire lifestyle.

He also advised me to NOT pull out the LDS platform from under their feet unless there’s a truly Christian platform there for them to rely upon. Otherwise, former LDS folks are in serious danger of winding up totally atheist.

Very true. That’s exactly what happened to me when I discovered, quite on my own, the fallacies of Mormonism. It took me many years to finally accept the existence of God again.
Grace to you,
Paul

 

[tkdnick]

PaulDupre:

Very true. That’s exactly what happened to me when I discovered, quite on my own, the fallacies of Mormonism. It took me many years to finally accept the existence of God again.
Grace to you,
Paul

Glad to see you made it home! :clapping:

 

[PaulDupre]

BJ Colbert:

Dupre,
Why would the Catholic Church recognize our baptism and why should they? We don’t recognize any other churches baptism and don’t expect them to recognize ours. That does not mean we don’t recognize the Catholics as Christian. Anyone who believes in Jesus Christ as their saviour and redeemer is Christian. Even though the translation is different He is still the same God over all of us whether you like it or not. He is the same and always will be no matter what spin you want to put on it.

That’s not what your founders and leaders have taught for 170 years:

Joseph Smith’s First Vision records that he went out into the woods to pray for wisdom concerning which church he should join. In answer to this prayer God the Father and Jesus Christ appeared to him as two separate, distinct beings. They told him not to join any of the churches “for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt” (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith—History 1:5-19).

"Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the “whore of Babylon” whom the Lord denounces… as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. And any person who shall be so wicked as to receive a holy ordinance of the gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent of the unholy and impious act. If any penitent believer desires to obtain forgiveness of sins through baptism, let him beware of having any thing to do with the churches of apostate Christendom, lest he perish in the awful plagues and judgments, denounced against them.

• The Seer, Vol.2, No.4, p.255

“The Roman Catholic, Greek, and Protestant church is the great corrupt ecclesiastic power, represented by great Babylon which has made all nations drunk with her wickedness, and she must fall, after she has been warned with the sound of the everlasting gospel.”

• Apostle Orson Pratt, Divine Authenticity of the Book of Mormon, p.84 - p.85

1 Nephi 13:5-6:
And the angel said unto me: Behold the formation of a church which is most abominable above all other churches, which slayeth the saints of God, yea, and tortureth them and bindeth them down, and yoketh them with a yoke of iron, and bringeth them down into captivity. And it came to pass that I beheld this great and abominable church; and I saw the devil that he was the founder of it.

1 Nephi 13:8:
And the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold the gold, and the silver, and the silks, and the scarlets, and the fine-twined linen, and the harlots, are the desires of this great and abominable church.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Bj Colbert,

As you can see from this writing from your own church, you do believe God is in the form of a man.

Errrrrr…no.

Jesus is said to be a door in Scripture, but that doesn’t mean we believe him to be literally a door.

See *Summa Theologica *of St. Thomas Aquinas, Doctor of the Catholic Church, where he responds to the question Whether God is a body?
newadvent.org/summa/100301.htm

Here are some excerpts…

It is written in the Gospel of St. John (Jn. 4:24): “God is a spirit.”

I answer that, It is absolutely true that God is not a body …

… Holy Writ puts before us spiritual and divine things under the comparison of corporeal things. Hence, when it attributes to God the three dimensions under the comparison of corporeal quantity, it implies His virtual quantity; thus, by depth, it signifies His power of knowing hidden things; by height, the transcendence of His excelling power; by length, the duration of His existence; by breadth, His act of love for all. …

… Man is said to be after the image of God, not as regards his body, but as regards that whereby he excels other animals. Hence, when it is said, “Let us make man to our image and likeness”, it is added, “And let him have dominion over the fishes of the sea” (Gn. 1:26). Now man excels all animals by his reason and intelligence; hence it is according to his intelligence and reason, which are incorporeal, that man is said to be according to the image of God.

… Corporeal parts are attributed to God in Scripture on account of His actions, and this is owing to a certain parallel. For instance the act of the eye is to see; hence the eye attributed to God signifies His power of seeing intellectually, not sensibly; and so on with the other parts.

… Whatever pertains to posture, also, is only attributed to God by some sort of parallel. He is spoken of as sitting, on account of His unchangeableness and dominion; and as standing, on account of His power of overcoming whatever withstands Him.

… We draw near to God by no corporeal steps, since He is everywhere, but by the affections of our soul, and by the actions of that same soul do we withdraw from Him; thus, to draw near to or to withdraw signifies merely spiritual actions based on the metaphor of local motion.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

“All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians.” (CCC 818)

The Catholic Church asserts that baptisms of non-Catholic Christians are valid, so long as they have proper matter, form and intent. LDS baptism lack the same “intention” as the Catholic Church, so it has been decreed invalid. Consequently, LDS are not Christians according to Catholicism, as they have not been validly baptized.

So, the Catholic Church accepts Lutheran baptisms, Anglican baptism, and many more non-Catholic Christian baptisms, because the Church teaches that they are indeed Christian so long as they have been validly baptized. When a Lutheran, for example, converts to the Catholic faith, we do not make them re-baptize. In fact, even if they ask to be re-baptized, we are not permitted to re-baptize them. A baptism, once it has been determined that it was validly accomplished, cannot be repeated.

Yet, the Church rejects the validity of LDS baptisms. Thus, the Church does not officially recognize the LDS as Christian. This is from the leaders of our Church.

You can read an article on the decision of the Vatican here:

Mormon Baptisms Invalid
bringyou.to/apologetics/a37.htm#UPDATE

 

[Chris-WA]

BJ Colbert:

Chris-wa,
You are the only resonable voice among your Catholic friends, and I appreciate that. I have never heard any other story but the one that Joseph told about seeing the Father and the Son. I am 62 and was born in the LDS church. As I said before, Genisis says that man is created in God’s image, and I believe that God would not mislead us. Why would He say that if it were not true? I guess it all boils down to the fact that I believe in God and Jesus Christ and in the Holy Spirit, but you all do not believe that I believe, so there is no way I can tell you anymore.
Go on believing that I am not a Christian, if that is what you want to believe.

BJ, thanks for your kind words. I really think it’s important to focus on doctrine and try not to make another person feel attacked. It’s the only way to have a civil and productive discussion. I realize that you alone are having to respond to so many posts at the same time, which I’m sure is becoming somewhat tiring.

I do not doubt your sincerity at all. Dedicated Mormons really believe what they believe. I can only wish that more Catholics knew and practiced their faith as well as so many LDS do. I myself have more LDS friends who are living out their faith than I do Catholic friends. That issue is largely due to a lack of proper Catholic education over the last 30 years or so. I wish we all had to go to Sunday school.

As to your comment above regarding the image of God as presented in Genesis–>What God said is true, and He certainly isn’t misleading us–we are created in His image. The difference is the interpretation of what that means. We believe that being created in God’s image has nothing to do with physical appearance. For us, to be created in God’s image means that we have an eternal soul capable of choosing right or wrong. This is the primary difference between us and the animals. Because of this we are the pinnacle of God’s creation. Unlike the plants and animals, we were made for heaven.

As for the earlier versions of Joseph Smiths First Vision, I will have to look that one up again to get you a proper answer. I’m sure one of the other posters here already know exactly where to find that.

 

[BJ_Colbert]

Thank you Chris Wa, I really appreciate your kindness and I did learn a lot about what some Catholics think of Mormons. Which was a total shock to me. I know that my husband and two of my best lady friends who are Catholic do not think that I or my church are not Christian, so that is what counts to me. I read some of these to my 30 year old daughter, who has attended both churches but is not active LDS and she was shocked. My other daughter who is married to a Catholic, has 2 sons and 1 daughter. One of her sons is a alter boy in the Catholic church and the other son is a priest (16 years old) in the Mormon church. My oldest son was married to a Catholic and she died 4 years ago. He has raised both of their sons as Catholic, the sons are 16 and 20 now. So you can see I have a great contact with Catholics and have always and will continue to respect them and their religion. I have to think that the ones I encountered in this forum were the exception and not the rule on how Catholics feel. I have felt great hatred from a few of you and it is frightening to me. It was my first time posting and I will probably not do it again.

 

[Exporter]

Mormon Baptisms are invalid. The Catholic view.

I was quite interested in the discussion about Baptism you were having with Bill Leahy. So, I thought my contribution would be to correct and expand the original “Mormons & Baptism” post I sent you.

By “correct” I meant rectifying some typos I made in the texts I copied here. And “expand” means quoting from both Della Rocca’s MANUAL OF CANON LAW and the 1983 CODEX IURIS CANONICI.

In a message you write:

GK> Yes. The RCC even recognizes “a baptism of necessity”. For example, you might have an infant born with a soon-fatal medical condition. There is no time to summon a minister or priest. In that situation, ANYBODY can administer a valid baptism so long as

1. There is an intention to perform the baptism. 2. It is in a Trinitariam form – "In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit…"I Baptise you in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit”.

It is for the second reason that Mormons who convert to Catholicism are re-baptized. Mormon practice baptism, but are not Trinitarian in doctrine. >>

Interesting. I knew the Mormons teach grave errors about the Godhead, but SOME of their baptisms are recognized as valid.

=============================================

I. The following texts about baptisms by Mormons may interest you. I quoted them from pages 17-20 of ROMAN REPLIES AND CLSA ADVISORY OPINIONS 1992 (Canon Law Society of America: 1992), edited by Kevin W. Vann, J.C.D. and Lynn Jarrell, O.S.U., J.C.D. They were an exchange of letters between a Mid-Western US diocese and the Doctrinal Congregation.

October 25, 1991

Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith Piazza del S. Uffizio, 11 00193 Rome, Italy

 

[Exporter]

UPDATE: Mormon Baptism is Declared Invalid

VATICAN CITY, JULY 17, 2001 (Zenit.org).-- Prompted by questions about Mormon practices, the Vatican recently confirmed that the sect’s baptism is invalid. Last month the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith noted the invalidity of the Mormons’ baptism given their misconception of the Trinity and, consequently, the identity of Christ.

Father Luis Ladaria, a theologian at the Pontifical Gregorian University, explained today in L’Osservatore Romano the Church’s view about Mormon baptism.

“The baptism of the Catholic Church and that of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,” the theologian said, “differ essentially as regards faith in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, in whose name baptism is conferred and, at the same time, in regard to Christ, who instituted it.”

Father Ladaria pointed out that even non-Catholics can administer baptism validly, as the minister of the sacrament is, in fact, Christ himself. But the baptiser must do so in the name of the Trinity and “with the intention of doing what the Church does,” he added.

Joseph Smith founded the Mormons in New York State in 1830. He was inspired to find the place were golden tablets were placed, which expressed the revelations of the prophet Mormon, written by him and his son Moroni. Mormonism is a “sacred history” rewritten in America, in which God revealed the “latter-day saints.”

The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith’s response is based on research requested by the U.S. bishops.

Father Ladaria said the formula used by the Mormons for baptism states that,

“having received Christ’s mandate, I baptize you in the name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”

But there is no real invocation of the Trinity, the theologian said, because, for the Mormons, the “Father,” “Son” and “Holy Spirit” are not the three persons in which the one divinity subsists, but three gods who form a divinity.

The term divinity itself has no “substantial” content, because, according to this Mormon concept, divinity has come into existence given that the three gods have decided to unite and form the divinity to bring about the salvation of man. This divinity and man share the same nature and are “substantially the same,” according to Mormon belief.

Such divergence in doctrine implies, Father Ladaria said, that the Mormon minister does not have the intention, when baptizing, of doing what the Catholic Church does when it confers baptism.

 

[boppysbud]

BJ, I hate no-one. In fact I have great respect for the mormons on several points.

They absolutely love their families and are greatly devoted to them. They have a great welfare system. They are more devoted to their church than anyone I know, spend by far the greatest ammount of time in their chapels and in church related activites. They probably give the greatest amount of their money to their church with tithing, fast and testimony Sunday offerings, and other offerings.

But there are real differences between the mormon and Christian views about God, Jesus Christ, and the Trinity.

Witnessing to those differences is not the same as “hating the mormons”, it is just a realistic look at the differences between both religious bodies.

 

[tkdnick]

BJ Colbert:

Thank you Chris Wa, I really appreciate your kindness and I did learn a lot about what some Catholics think of Mormons. Which was a total shock to me. I know that my husband and two of my best lady friends who are Catholic do not think that I or my church are not Christian, so that is what counts to me. I read some of these to my 30 year old daughter, who has attended both churches but is not active LDS and she was shocked. My other daughter who is married to a Catholic, has 2 sons and 1 daughter. One of her sons is a alter boy in the Catholic church and the other son is a priest (16 years old) in the Mormon church. My oldest son was married to a Catholic and she died 4 years ago. He has raised both of their sons as Catholic, the sons are 16 and 20 now. So you can see I have a great contact with Catholics and have always and will continue to respect them and their religion. I have to think that the ones I encountered in this forum were the exception and not the rule on how Catholics feel. I have felt great hatred from a few of you and it is frightening to me. It was my first time posting and I will probably not do it again.

I wouldn’t let the negative posts of some people stop you from posting at all. Yes it is true that there are probably some people here who totally despise the LDS faith as I am sure there are LDS members who despise the Catholic faith. That’s one of the problems of our fallen human nature. I would, however, like to give the people majority of the people here the benefit of the doubt and say that what they were saying was with good intention EVENTHOUGH it didn’t seem that way. I have been following this thread and posting periodically and must say I was not impressed with the way some people have posted there fews! I apologize if any of my posts came off across in this way, and I would encourage to continue to engage in conversation with those people who act like they wish to engage in “civil conversation” as chris wa put it so well. There really is a great deal to be learned and discussed on these forums without the attacking of other people and their specific religion.

 

[StubbleSpark]

itsjustdave1988:

The Catholic Church asserts that baptisms of non-Catholic Christians are valid, so long as they have proper matter, form and intent. LDS baptism lack the same “intention” as the Catholic Church, so it has been decreed invalid. Consequently, LDS are not Christians according to Catholicism, as they have not been validly baptized.

So, the Catholic Church accepts Lutheran baptisms, Anglican baptism, and many more non-Catholic Christian baptisms, because the Church teaches that they are indeed Christian so long as they have been validly baptized. When a Lutheran, for example, converts to the Catholic faith, we do not make them re-baptize. In fact, even if they ask to be re-baptized, we are not permitted to re-baptize them. A baptism, once it has been determined that it was validly accomplished, cannot be repeated.

The Church also recognizes Baptist baptism as well, even though Baptists do not believe their baptisms have the power to cleanse us of original sin – for them, it is merely a ceremony for show (I was baptised Baptist and did not have to get re-baptised when I converted to the Faith).

This shows that the Church recognizes an intrinsic power in baptism even if the beliefs of those being baptised are not the same as those of the Catholic Church. In fact, the Catechism states that you do not need to be baptised by a priest – you do not even need to be baptised by a Christian!! Just as long as the person being baptised (or the parents, in the case of infant baptism) understand the why they are being baptised and the baptism is done in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Three persons, one God!

Amen!

 

[Chris-WA]

BJ Colbert:

Thank you Chris Wa, I really appreciate your kindness and I did learn a lot about what some Catholics think of Mormons. Which was a total shock to me…I have to think that the ones I encountered in this forum were the exception and not the rule on how Catholics feel. I have felt great hatred from a few of you and it is frightening to me. It was my first time posting and I will probably not do it again.

BJ, your Catholic-LDS connections certainly give you a unique perspective. I think sometimes what happens when we have very close family relationships with those of other religions, we tend to gloss over the differences in an effort to not rock the boat. It has the advantage of keeping things amicable, but it has the disadvantage of never really resolving two belief systems in such opposition. I experience this in my own life every day. Also, it doesn’t matter what any of us thinks about Mormons. What matters is what we think about Mormon doctrine.

It has also been my experience that Mormons tend to flee from a discussion whenever they feel persecuted for their beliefs. I would ask you to not be one of those people. Even in the posts that seem somewhat hostile, try to sift out the hostility and deal exclusively with the topics.

What you have to understand is that Catholics who have studied Mormonism from the outside truly find an unexplainable chasm between what their Mormon buddy down the street says and what can be found in Mormon scripture and early LDS history. If I pick up the Book of Mormon I quickly read that “all the other churches are an abomination to God.” Abomination? Right away the Catholic Church, and all other Christian Churches for that matter, are under direct attack as being apostate. This is the starting point of Mormonism, what you call the Great Apostacy. Catholics are going to defend ourselves against this claim, and Mormons aren’t usually ready for that. For example, it’s very frustrating to me that when it comes to the Great Apostacy, Mormons take it as truth without really diving deeply into the idea. They don’t know about the early Church Fathers, the Didache, or anything else of that time period. They simply accept it without thinking, without looking at the historical evidence. Anyway, I hope this gives you a little better insight into our side of the equation, and maybe explains why some Catholics get a little hot under the collar when talking about this issue. Just don’t give up on us. Dialogue is what we need.

 

[mlchance]

The problem with trying to pin down Mormom beliefs is that they have substantially changed over the years to the point where current “inspired” teachings sometimes directly contradict earlier “inspired” teachings. If that isn’t a sure indication that there are serious problems with Mormonism, we can always turn to the fact that Mormonism is based in part on demonstrable historical fraud.

For example, Mormonism claims that the lost tribe of Israel somehow emigrated to North America and became the ancestors of the Native Americans. There isn’t a shred of evidence that this is true, and recent DNA studies demonstrate that it is actually false.

There is also the supposed pre-Columbus existence of honey bees, as mentioned in the Book of Mormon. Unfortunately for Joseph Smith’s rather interesting novel, honey bees were introduced to North America by Europeans after the close of the 15th century A.D.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[BJ_Colbert]

mlchance, Hmmmm you have just stated a total falsehood and you really should read The Book of Mormon to find out the facts. Also, if you travel to Mexico and to Central and South America you will find the ruins of the Book of Mormon people and other people who lived in the Americas before the birth of Christ, perhaps the DNA is from the others that migrated here also. They have just discovered another large city near Merida, Mexico that dates from 500 BC. I did not get that information from the Mormon Church, but from a travel seminar that I attended about Mexico. It had nothing to do with the Mormon Church. Check it out…
Not one person addressed the problem my husband had with different priests telling him different beliefs each had, and how he was suddenly forgiven and allowed communion by a priest well versed in cannon law, who said any one of the others could have forgiven him for divoce after being married in the Catholic Mass to his first wife. They all passed him around for 3 years before deciding that he could be forgiven. I can point out some pretty wierd things about the Catholic Church, but did not want to hurt our discussion, but since it is no holds barred. How about those visions of the Virgin Mary on store windows and on trees where people travel from miles around and put flowers and crosses in front of the vision. I’m sure Mary has other more important things to do than to make a vision of herself in the dirt on a store window.
Now, you see anyone can take something and make it into something it is not. You have taken things out of context from my religion and made derogatory and hateful remarks that only non-Christians would make. I am sorry to make flipant remarks about the visions of Mary that you worship, but it seems to be the perfect example of what you are pointing out about my beliefs, which by the way I do not recognize when you are describing them. You distort them so much and take them way out of context. As for the part about the Jews in a earlier post, we do work with them as well as Catholics and other religions on humanitarian projects, and they do believe in the same God, but they do not believe that Jesus Christ was our saviour, but only a teacher. They are still waiting for the birth. So this is really the last time you will hear from me. Try to be Christians at least with each other if not with people who do not believe as you do.

 

[Chris-WA]

BJ, I hope you’re really not leaving. I’ve enjoyed reading your posts and having this dialogue.
BJ Colbert:

Also, if you travel to Mexico and to Central and South America you will find the ruins of the Book of Mormon people and other people who lived in the Americas before the birth of Christ, perhaps the DNA is from the others that migrated here also. They have just discovered another large city near Merida, Mexico that dates from 500 BC…

You are correct when you point out that ancient cities have been found in Central and South America. But let’s stick to the facts and not to assumptions. There is no proof that any of these locations have been tied to the peoples described in the Book of Mormon. In fact, not one Book of Mormon city in the Americas has ever been located. There also has never been any ancient writing discovered in the Americas in any form that names a single person or place from the Book of Mormon. Even the poeple at FARMS would admit this.
BJ Colbert:

Not one person addressed the problem my husband had with different priests telling him different beliefs each had, and how he was suddenly forgiven and allowed communion by a priest well versed in cannon law, who said any one of the others could have forgiven him for divoce after being married in the Catholic Mass to his first wife. They all passed him around for 3 years before deciding that he could be forgiven. I can point out some pretty wierd things about the Catholic Church, but did not want to hurt our discussion, but since it is no holds barred.

You are right to be confused here. Unfortunately, there are priests who don’t do things correctly, either out of ignorance or out of their own whims. This is embarrassing because they above all others should know better. If you’re husband was previously married, the Catholic Church would require an annulment before he could marry again in the church.
BJ Colbert:

How about those visions of the Virgin Mary on store windows and on trees where people travel from miles around and put flowers and crosses in front of the vision. I’m sure Mary has other more important things to do than to make a vision of herself in the dirt on a store window.

As far as visions of Mary are concerned, some the Church officially recognizes and some it does not. But if you believe that Joseph Smith could have seen God, Jesus, Peter, James, John, and others, I think you have to accept that Mary could have appeared also.