God wrote the Bible not the Catholic Church

[jmcrae]

Read the Trail of Blood.

Anybody who actually reads that book would realize right away that it is a work of paranoid fiction, just like the Da Vinci Code.

 

[VoiceofOne]

Where did Jesus use the term Trinity? Where did Jesus use the terms sola scriptura, or the term “Bible alone”?

Do you think these concepts are untrue as well?

**
That’s a lie.** The Catholic Church has never had a pope named Constantine. Constantine was a ROMAN EMPEROR, a governmental authority figure, not the Pope.

Prove it.

You’re calling JESUS an elected fool who wears gold, purple, and scarlet? That’s not very nice.

Check your history Jo Anna. Constantine called himself pope, he made the mold for the popes after him. It’s well documented, do alittle secular research.

I don’t have to prove that 100 000 000 or more were killed, it’s well documented, just not by the catholics. Read Foxes’ Book of Martyrs or Trail of Blood. If it never happened then what was the inquisition or the crusades???

Jesus wore simple clothes, He was humble and wise, He loved His enemies and forgave them.

The pope wears opulence. He is proud and elevated in self righteousness and vanity, but ignorant of his own foolishness. The popes of history have blessed tyrants, sanctioned killing sprees and hated the Word of God to the point of outlawing it to the laity. The popes priests sell indulgences and false security to the ignorant masses of the world’s poor catholics.

Wake up. Or are you a virgin that has not brought enough oil?

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Check your history Jo Anna.

Check your own, Voice.

 

[VoiceofOne]

Well, there’s one thing we can agree on.

No, a Protestant is one who protests against the one true Church, the Catholic Church. So yes, you are a Protestant.

So… let me ask you something. When you were a child, did you listen to and obey your parents? If so, did that make you unChristian since you were following both your parents AND Jesus?

You think yourself a fox?

Isn’t there a command from God “Honor your mother and father”

You twist what I say, and there is no good debate in that.

The term protestant somes from after the reformation. The pope of the day sent a bull to Charles V the Holy Roman Emporer, that he must bring the renegade German principalities back to the fold. The princes of Germany after being summoned, read a letter to Charles V and a certain cardinal of the church, stating that they were protesting the papal bull. They then offered their necks rather than recant their faith in Christ. Charles V spared them because they represented the biggest part of Germany, and He feared for His political life.

This is where “protestant” comes from.

Catholics rarely know real history, just what is told to them by their priests.

follow Jesus, not the pope.

 

[jmcrae]

Check your history Jo Anna. Constantine called himself pope, he made the mold for the popes after him. It’s well documented, do alittle secular research.

This is crazy-talk. Constantine’s mother was Catholic before he was even born. His father was a pagan, and raised him as a pagan, but he respected his mother’s religion, and made it legal in the Empire for her sake. But he himself didn’t even get baptized until he was about to die; he was not in any position to become the leader of the Catholic Church.

I don’t have to prove that 100 000 000 or more were killed, it’s well documented, just not by the catholics. Read Foxes’ Book of Martyrs or Trail of Blood. If it never happened then what was the inquisition or the crusades???

Both of those books are works of fiction. The Inquisition was a kind of trial. It was the first time in history that the defendant was considered innocent until proven guilty. The word “Inquisition” means “Asking questions.” It’s true that some people ended up receiving the death penalty for their crimes when they were tried by the Inquisition - but not nearly as many as would have received it if they had gone with the more usual method of simply deciding they were guilty, and killing them without all the bother of asking any questions.

The Crusades got started when Muslims and Jews started terrorizing Christian tourists who were going to Jerusalem to seek out the holy places of Jesus. The Crusaders began by going to Jerusalem to protect the Christian tourists. Later, things heated up, and war broke out. Then, the Muslims decided to invade Europe and kill all Christians everywhere; not only those who came to Jerusalem. At that time, it became necessary to defend Europe. (Do you think that self-defense is unlawful?)

Jesus wore simple clothes, He was humble and wise, He loved His enemies and forgave them.

Many Catholics do this, as well - think of the Franciscans, the Benedictines, the Sisters of Charity, the Carmelites, and many others.

The pope wears opulence. He is proud and elevated in self righteousness and vanity, but ignorant of his own foolishness.

You know nothing about the Pope. Read his writings some time. Also, did you know that every item of clothing he wears is a symbol of something that Jesus did for us? He doesn’t wear that stuff just to look different or to be fashionable in some way - he is actually a walking Gospel tract, for those with eyes to see.

The popes of history have blessed tyrants, sanctioned killing sprees and hated the Word of God to the point of outlawing it to the laity. The popes priests sell indulgences and false security to the ignorant masses of the world’s poor catholics.

No Pope has ever outlawed the real Bible to the laity. False translations, yes. Incomplete translations, certainly. But the real Bible? Never.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

In the beginning …His dwelling among us.

I asked a question. Please have the common courtesy to answer the question rather than throwing scripture out of context at me.
*Do you believe that logos is Jesus? *
*Or do you believe that logos is Scripture? *
Which is it please? Thank you.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

As to which translation/interpretation of this particular line is the most accurate, I can’t say for sure since I am not a Bible scholar. Did Jesus intend for **all Christians **to be Greek Bible scholars so that we could get to the heart of the Gospel? IMO “no,” this is an unrealistic expectation. Not **all Christians **have the time or the mental capacity to be Bible scholars.

Any use for the Church then?

 

[jmcrae]

You think yourself a fox?

Isn’t there a command from God “Honor your mother and father”

Isn’t there also a commandment, “Follow your appointed Church leaders”?

There is nothing in the Bible that says, “Quit following Peter and set yourself up in his place, if you disagree with him.”

follow Jesus, not the pope.

Without following the Pope, you will never find Jesus. Even the New Testament was given to us by a Catholic Pope - Pope Damasus, in 381 AD. Every time you pick up your New Testament Bible and read it, you are following Pope Damasus.

 

[wanner47]

Check your history Jo Anna. Constantine called himself pope, he made the mold for the popes after him. It’s well documented, do alittle secular research.

You made the claim. The onus is on you to prove your assertions.

Regardless, I’ll do the work for you.

The Emperor Constantine I was effectively the sole ruler of the Roman world between 324 and 337 A.D.; his reign was perhaps one of the most crucial of all the emperors in determining the future course of western civilization. By beginning the process of making Christianity the religious foundation of his realm, he set the religious course for the future of Europe which remains in place to this very day. Because he replaced Rome with Constantinople as the center of imperial power, he made it clear that the city of Rome was no longer the center of power and he also set the stage for the Middle Ages. His philosophical view of monarchy, largely spelled out in some of the works of Eusebius of Caesarea, became the foundation for the concept of the divine right of kings which prevailed in Europe.

roman-emperors.org/konniei.htm

The word “pope” does not even appear in the article. If Constantine WAS the first Pope, wouldn’t this be a recorded historical fact?

St. Peter was the first Pope, not Constantine.

I

don’t have to prove that 100 000 000 or more were killed, it’s well documented, just not by the catholics. Read Foxes’ Book of Martyrs or Trail of Blood. If it never happened then what was the inquisition or the crusades???

More Protestants killed Catholics during the reign of Elizabeth I that Catholics allegedly killed during the entire Inquisition. Your point?

Jesus wore simple clothes, He was humble and wise, He loved His enemies and forgave them.

Agreed.

The pope wears opulence. He is proud and elevated in self righteousness and vanity, but ignorant of his own foolishness. The popes of history have blessed tyrants, sanctioned killing sprees and hated the Word of God to the point of outlawing it to the laity. The popes priests sell indulgences and false security to the ignorant masses of the world’s poor catholics.

All false.

Do you ever dress up when you go to important events, such as weddings? If so, does that make you anti-Jesus?

The Church has outlawed heretical translations of the Bible that contained false doctrine. It has never outlawed sacred Scripture.

As for indulgences:

Myth 1: A person can buy his way out of hell with indulgences.

This charge is without foundation. Since indulgences remit only temporal penalties, they cannot remit the eternal penalty of hell. Once a person is in hell, no amount of indulgences will ever change that fact. The only way to avoid hell is by appealing to God’s eternal mercy while still alive. After death, one’s eternal fate is set (Heb. 9:27).

…]

Myth 6: A person can buy indulgences.

The Council of Trent instituted severe reforms in the practice of granting indulgences, and, because of prior abuses, “in 1567 Pope Pius V canceled all grants of indulgences involving any fees or other financial transactions” (Catholic Encyclopedia). This act proved the Church’s seriousness about removing abuses from indulgences.

Myth 7: A person used to be able to buy indulgences.

One never could “buy” indulgences. The financial scandal surrounding indulgences, the scandal that gave Martin Luther an excuse for his heterodoxy, involved alms—indulgences in which the giving of alms to some charitable fund or foundation was used as the occasion to grant the indulgence. There was no outright selling of indulgences. The Catholic Encyclopedia states: “*t is easy to see how abuses crept in. Among the good works which might be encouraged by being made the condition of an indulgence, almsgiving would naturally hold a conspicuous place. . . . It is well to observe that in these purposes there is nothing essentially evil. To give money to God or to the poor is a praiseworthy act, and, when it is done from right motives, it will surely not go unrewarded.”

catholic.com/library/Myths_About_Indulgences.asp*.

Wake up. Or are you a virgin that has not brought enough oil?

I was going to ask the same about you.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

When did Jesus use the term “ONE HOLY AND CATHOLIC CHURCH.”?

A pope named Constantine (your first pope) said that. Christ founded His church on the confession of Peter. Peter confessed He was the Messiah God. Jesus said that His church would be persecuted, not the persecutor. Catholics are responsible for the deaths of over 100 000 000 European non-catholics between 350 AD and 1808 AD. How could this be Christ’s church, when it follows an elected fool who wears gold, purple and scarlet… like the whore of Babylon in Revelations.

follow Jesus not the pope

Ah! Like the Whore of Babylon in Revelations. I see. :hypno:

And I see you haven’t read the forum rules yet have you? :nope:

Just come on here to bash the Church, right? Not interested in checking the accuracy of your ‘history’ at all. Just gonna blurt out some gobbledy gook from the latest Chick Tract. And this is supposed to have us crawling to your church to sign up in droves?

Um… how exactly do you think that will come about?

 

[wanner47]

You think yourself a fox?

I don’t understand what you mean. I consider myself a human being, created in the likeness and image of God.

Isn’t there a command from God “Honor your mother and father”

Yes, there is. Isn’t there a Bible verse that says, “Call no man Father?” What did you call your biological dad? Were you sinning against Christ by calling him your father?

My point was that just as you obeyed your earthly father and your Heavenly Father, so do we obey our earthy Fathers – biological and spiritual – as well as our Heavenly Father, God.

You twist what I say, and there is no good debate in that.

Disproving your false beliefs is not “twisting” what you say.

The term protestant somes from after the reformation. The pope of the day sent a bull to Charles V the Holy Roman Emporer, that he must bring the renegade German principalities back to the fold. The princes of Germany after being summoned, read a letter to Charles V and a certain cardinal of the church, stating that they were protesting the papal bull. They then offered their necks rather than recant their faith in Christ. Charles V spared them because they represented the biggest part of Germany, and He feared for His political life.

This is where “protestant” comes from.

That may be the origin of the term, but it doesn’t change the meaning.

Catholics rarely know real history, just what is told to them by their priests.

follow Jesus, not the pope.

I used to be a Protestant. Then I started investigating what the Catholic Church REALLY teaches.

I’d advise you to do the same.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

I don’t have to prove that 100 000 000 or more were killed…

No you don’t. Thing is that if you don’t show us the courtesy of providing evidence for your accusations, then your posts lose credibility and people just tune them out. What you say just becomes noise; full of sound of fury signifying nothing.

By the way, you might want to consider the value of showing some courtesy. After all does your church let you get away with being rude to those whose knowledge may be far superior to your own? Or on the other hand do they encourage it?

Really curious to find out what church you represent that would tolerate such an attitude.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

VoiceofOne:

The Holy Spirit through prayer will define the Scriptures for you, He is God after all. I would rather be taught by God than man.

You have given us the opposite impression.

The Bible says itself how to interpret it.

Where?

 

[Ani_Ibi]

VoiceofOne:

You think yourself a fox?

Is this supposed to mean something? If so, then what please?

Isn’t there a command from God “Honor your mother and father”

VoiceofOne:

You twist what I say, and there is no good debate in that.

The poster was not twisting what you said. The poster was asking you a question which you ignored.

So I will ask you again: isn’t there a command from God “honor your mother and father”? Is there or is there not? Yes or no please.

Also, if you are looking for debate you are likely to find it elsewhere. We try to have discussions on CAF.

VoiceofOne:

Catholics rarely know real history, just what is told to them by their priests.

I take it that “real history” is the one which you have personally approved? I guess that makes you some kind of pope, then?

You do realize that your statement is a faulty generalism – and therefore a logical fallacy – and comes off us anti-Catholic prejudice? Does that matter to you?

 

[VoiceofOne]

Ah! Like the Whore of Babylon in Revelations. I see. :hypno:

And I see you haven’t read the forum rules yet have you? :nope:

Just come on here to bash the Church, right? Not interested in checking the accuracy of your ‘history’ at all. Just gonna blurt out some gobbledy gook from the latest Chick Tract. And this is supposed to have us crawling to your church to sign up in droves?

Um… how exactly do you think that will come about?

I haven’t quoted anything from Chick.

 

[VoiceofOne]

No you don’t. Thing is that if you don’t show us the courtesy of providing evidence for your accusations, then your posts lose credibility and people just tune them out. What you say just becomes noise; full of sound of fury signifying nothing.

By the way, you might want to consider the value of showing some courtesy. After all does your church let you get away with being rude to those whose knowledge may be far superior to your own? Or on the other hand do they encourage it?

Really curious to find out what church you represent that would tolerate such an attitude.

Really I am quite at peace. Only those who oppose truth have been infuriated. I love debating catholics, they’re arguments are funny.

 

[VoiceofOne]

Is this supposed to mean something? If so, then what please?

The poster was not twisting what you said. The poster was asking you a question which you ignored.

So I will ask you again: isn’t there a command from God “honor your mother and father”? Is there or is there not? Yes or no please.

Also, if you are looking for debate you are likely to find it elsewhere. We try to have discussions on CAF.

I take it that “real history” is the one which you have personally approved? I guess that makes you some kind of pope, then?

You do realize that your statement is a faulty generalism – and therefore a logical fallacy – and comes off us anti-Catholic prejudice? Does that matter to you?

Actually, I asked that question. and if I must also answer, then yes it is a command.

Your point?

 

[jmcrae]

Really I am quite at peace. Only those who oppose truth have been infuriated. I love debating catholics, they’re arguments are funny.

No, just exasperated. It’s like someone coming in to teach a Math class who thinks that 2+2=5, or that Algebra is a sexually transmitted disease - but keeps going on and on and on, and wondering why nobody in the room is respecting his “expertise.”

 

[VoiceofOne]

Is this supposed to mean something? If so, then what please?

The poster was not twisting what you said. The poster was asking you a question which you ignored.

So I will ask you again: isn’t there a command from God “honor your mother and father”? Is there or is there not? Yes or no please.

Also, if you are looking for debate you are likely to find it elsewhere. We try to have discussions on CAF.

I take it that “real history” is the one which you have personally approved? I guess that makes you some kind of pope, then?

You do realize that your statement is a faulty generalism – and therefore a logical fallacy – and comes off us anti-Catholic prejudice? Does that matter to you?

logical fallacy = oxymoron

 

[wanner47]

Really I am quite at peace. Only those who oppose truth have been infuriated. I love debating catholics, they’re arguments are funny.

Funny, I was about to post the exact same thing! (except I would have said, “I love debating anti-Catholics…”

I see that since you can’t respond to any counterclaims you’re resorting to a sense of false superiority.

Just remember that pride goes before a fall.