Gun Carrying Catholics Armed

[Jump4Joy]

I think guns are the issue. I’m not talking about with mass shootings. Turn on the news. Most crimes ate committed with a hand gun. People rob the liquor store, invade people’s homes, etc with the most common weapon a gun. Guns are easily accessible. Guns give you authority.

 

[upant]

Guns are a lethal weapon designed to kill

guns were first used defensively by song chinese defenders, the gun was designed to defend

The battle between the Jurchen Jin besiegers and the Song Chinese defenders is important in global history as the first recorded instance of the fire lance, an early ancestor of firearms, being used in battle.

and is still used to do that today.

The study, which was farmed out by the CDC to the Institute of Medicine and National Research Council, also revealed that while there were “about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008,” the estimated number of defensive uses of guns ranges "from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year."

CDC Gun Violence Study's Findings Not What Obama Wanted

Second Amendment: The White House asked the Centers for Disease Control "to research the causes and prevention of gun violence." We're pretty sure that what the CDC found wasn't what... Read More

www.investors.com

 

[Vonsalza]

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[Seeksadvice]

Wow… I didn’t know that guns died at such a high rate in North Dakota, guess I should check in on mine more often.

The populations of the various states make that map really, really skewed. You do realize right that Wyoming has less than 500,000 people and ND less than 700,000? Also, what does “age-adjusted death rates” mean? If you adjust and tinker with figures enough, you can get nearly any data set to say what you want.

Guessing that “gun deaths” include suicides, which would happen anyway. Self-gassing seems to be making a comeback in that department with slow-death by a multiplicity of cuts popping up too along with the occassional throat slitting. Hanging also seems to be rather popular, except they never seem to get the drop right and spend quite some time slowly passing as their toes touch the ground.

For the western states, you have issues relating to violence on Indian reservations. A good chunk of the rest is probably made up for by the larger population centers in those states. Can’t imagine that the rural folks are out shooting the town up.

For North Dakota, we are experiencing an influx of gang bangers from Bakersfield and other “fine” California cities along with miscreants from other places. They import extreme violence to a state that didn’t used to have those issues. When the violence gets imported, the figures get skewed because say, two drug gang related murders in North Dakota really stand out. Of the homicide cases I’ve prosecuted out here, only one of them involved a local doing the killing. A small number of years back, Minot had a Somali man kill off four members of his family … that spiked the murder rate in the State.

That Hawaii thing is interesting. I remember the article that hit the news about the woman who was slowly and brutally killed by a perp who wasn’t using a firearm… sure bet she wished she had one when she encountered him. God made all men, John Moses Browning made all men equal, and Samuel Colt made all men civil.

Love the icon “safe home.” My home is safe.

 

[Escabrosa]

They must be counting suicides as well with that map, along with some creative stats. If you look at homicide figures it’s different. For example, California is ranked 25th, middle of the pack, at 4.9 homicides per 100k.

 

[upant]

the brady campaign evaluated the laws and scored the feel-good laws as they deem appropriate. they made the data fit their agenda.

Given these discrepancies in state laws, the
Brady Campaign evaluated the laws across all 50
states,

 

[Theo520]

You are doing it again, you are combining gun suicides with gun homicides when you need to buff your numbers.

It’s an intentional misrepresentation by your source.

 

[Vonsalza]

Wow… I didn’t know that guns died at such a high rate in North Dakota, guess I should check in on mine more often.

The populations of the various states make that map really, really skewed. You do realize right that Wyoming has less than 500,000 people and ND less than 700,000? Also, what does “age-adjusted death rates” mean?..

I know.

For the blindly pro-gun crowd who insist that guns make the world safer, they absolutely must dismiss or discredit the graphic in order for their religious views on guns to survive.

 

[Vonsalza]

You are doing it again, you are combining gun suicides with gun homicides when you need to buff your numbers.

It’s an intentional misrepresentation by your source.

There are plenty of folks who think that if suicide was a little harder than a momentary trigger-pull then maybe fewer people would do it.

I know. Crazy talk.

 

[Maximilian75]

If there are any gun enthusiasts left on this thread that don’t want to debate the 2a, I’m starting a new interesting thread…

 

[Vonsalza]

They must be counting suicides as well with that map, along with some creative stats. If you look at homicide figures it’s different. For example, California is ranked 25th, middle of the pack, at 4.9 homicides per 100k.

I like comparing the same measures with other nations with tighter controls on gun ownership.

Homicide rate in U.S. was 4.88 per 100k per UNODC data table.

Latvia Ukraine Lithuania and Russia were the only countries in wider Europe that were similar or higher. Most of them were 1/5th of ours…

 

[MonteRCMS]

Add Japan.

LOTS of suicides.

Remove Chicago and Baltimore.

New York also known as RudyGiulianitown doesn’t count.

Suicide in Japan has become a major national social issue.[1][2] Japan has a relatively high suicide rate compared to other countries, but the number of suicides is declining and as of 2013 has been under 30,000 for three consecutive years.[3] In 2014 on average 70 Japanese people committed suicide every day, and the vast majority were men.[4] Seventy-one percent of suicides in Japan were male,[2] and it is the leading cause of death in men aged 20–44.[5][6] By 2016, suicide rates had reached a 22-year low of 21,764, that is, men decreased by 1,664 to 15,017 and women decreased by 597 to 6,747.[7]

 

[Vonsalza]

Compared to the US’s 4.88 homicides for 100k, Japan clocks in at 0.31 homicides per 100k.

You’re almost 16 times more likely to be murdered in the US than you are in Japan.

 

[MonteRCMS]

Compared the the US’s 4.88 homicides for 100k, Japan clocks in at 0.31 homicides per 100k.

You’re almost 16 times more likely to be murdered in the US than you are in Japan.

What changes would we make to be more like Japan?

 

[Theo520]

There are plenty of folks who think that if suicide was a little harder than a momentary trigger-pull then maybe fewer people would do it.

I know. Crazy talk.

Yet actual data doesn’t support you. gun confiscation in Australia and the UK did not result in a marked shift down in suicides, because guns were less available. People readily substituted their method to achieve their goal, they aren’t dissuaded by what you imagine is additional inconvenience.

 

[Theo520]

What changes would we make to be more like Japan?

Have a much more homogenous society. But this would require stopping virtually all new immigration.

 

[Escabrosa]

As I said before, you can compare with other countries around the world, or within the States, and you’ll find no correlation when it comes to homicide rate.

And why just compare with European countries? The US is not just ethnically European and the cultures are not the same. Now if you want to compare homicides by ethnicity you’ll stir up another hornets nest.

 

[Vonsalza]

Vonsalza:

There are plenty of folks who think that if suicide was a little harder than a momentary trigger-pull then maybe fewer people would do it.

I know. Crazy talk.

Yet actual data doesn’t support you.

Yeah, like national murder rates. Since that data clearly supports me, there’s something wrong with it.

gun confiscation in Australia and the UK did not result in a marked shift down in suicides…

They were on the decline in the UK and continued. What you’re looking for is an exaggerated, almost caricaturish jump in trends and as I’ve told you repeatedly, issues with multiple drivers don’t dramatically jump when one changes.

For Ozzland, gun suicides were dropping and continued to drop. Non-gun suicides did spike in the early aughts, but those are on the way back down too.

A perfectly valid manifestation of the effect of banning guns on suicide can absolutely be the continued downward trend resulting in a leveling at a lower value than would otherwise occur.

This is how adults look at data - cartoonish dynamics probably shouldn’t be expected.

People readily substituted their method to achieve their goal, they aren’t dissuaded by what you imagine is additional inconvenience.

We must be looking at different numbers. Suicide rates have been dropping or level in these countries for decades now.

Ozzland:
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Britain:
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[Vonsalza]

There’s just no good reason to advocate wide gun ownership, particularly for higher capability weapons.

They’re obsolete in terms of checking government military power. A violent criminal always carries the advantage of surprise. They make it easier for folks to kill themselves. Countries that limit gun ownership tend to enjoy substantially lower homicide rates.

There’s just no good, valid reason, really. Even in SHTF, the weapons of yesterday that required better marksmanship would make better tools (as ammo, presumably, won’t be made for awhile).

 

[Theo520]

They were on the decline in the UK and continued. What you’re looking for is an exaggerated, almost caricaturish jump in trends and as I’ve told you repeatedly, issues with multiple drivers don’t dramatically jump when one changes.

If guns are significantly causal, which you’ve indicated, there should be a dramatic change to the trend when that (name removed by moderator)ut is largely removed from the equation within a short timeframe. That’s just basic statistics on cause and effect.

Only if guns weren’t causal would you see the same trend continue with minimal disruption. The lack of change shows me guns aren’t correlated and thus aren’t causal.