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JamalChristophr
Guest
(just kidding. )
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Crusaderbear
Guest
Arrrrrrgggggghhhhhh! How’s that for 16 characters! 
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JamalChristophr
Guest
That sound like a mantra to me. 
Hmmmmmm… I shall let it go this one time.
Hmmmmmm… I shall let it go this one time.
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twf
Guest
I was raised in a fairly conservative Evangelical Protestant household. I was forbidden from watching Care Bears because of the occult magic… some of the Catholics here at CAF seem to have that same mentality.
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twf
Guest
And this, my friends, completely discounts the only real argument made by Potter critics on this thread: appeal to authority (and several other attempts that had nothing to do with the actual content of the books). If the authority they appeal to jumped on a superstitious explanation, in a very un-Catholic manner, rather than investigating the facts, the entire house of cards crumbles.
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jtauke
Guest
Is this a joke? How many times will people rehash this ridiculous concept.
It’s a children’s novel. End of story.
There’s nothing demonic about it.
It’s a children’s novel. End of story.
There’s nothing demonic about it.
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pnewton
Guest
A pentagram means something different in geometry than it does in a horror movie. I do not believe you.
This has been a silly thread topic every time it comes up. If someone needs advice on this, go to your priest, not the internet, and do not search for the one or two quotes that support this or that. The Catholic Church does not consider fiction a sin.
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adgloriam
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(post withdrawn by author, will be automatically deleted in 24 hours unless flagged)
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Hebrews12
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I don’t believe that Harry Potter or any other fictional material can make anyone believe in the occult and turn away from Christianity, but I do believe that some people are predisposed to the occult or atheism or anti-Catholicism and certain ideas presented to them, especially as children, can cause them to leave the Church.
I know because I’ve seen it in my own family, where the Tripod series of books caused my sister to doubt her faith, make her believe she was brainwashed to be a Catholic the way the aliens in the stories brainwash humans to worship them, and ultimately my sister became a pagan. There were other factors in play, some perhaps a lot more significant in her choice to leave the Church and Christianity as a whole, but that conversation she had with me about those books has always stuck with me.
Now, I read the Tripod books as a kid and thought they were great science fiction, but here I am on CAF, still a Catholic. I’ve actually read a lot of books that various Catholics or other Christians have had a problem with at one point or another (though never Harry Potter, they didn’t interest me) and turned out just fine. If books like these make people leave the faith, it’s certainly not a universal result.
Ultimately I would probably blame parents for not adequately helping their children put certain media into the proper context, and keeping media away from their children if their children are particularly susceptible to certain kinds of media. Some kids don’t need that help, but some kids clearly do. Children need to be equipped with faith and a degree of certainty about that faith, so they can not only resist various temptations in life, but also have a defense against messages that specifically attack their faith. Catechesis begins at home. My parents didn’t really do that good a job with it, and I kind of came to the Church mostly on my own.
I don’t think it’s an accident that there’s been a huge boom in things like wicca and other pagan beliefs in the decades since the Harry Potter books came out.
I know because I’ve seen it in my own family, where the Tripod series of books caused my sister to doubt her faith, make her believe she was brainwashed to be a Catholic the way the aliens in the stories brainwash humans to worship them, and ultimately my sister became a pagan. There were other factors in play, some perhaps a lot more significant in her choice to leave the Church and Christianity as a whole, but that conversation she had with me about those books has always stuck with me.
Now, I read the Tripod books as a kid and thought they were great science fiction, but here I am on CAF, still a Catholic. I’ve actually read a lot of books that various Catholics or other Christians have had a problem with at one point or another (though never Harry Potter, they didn’t interest me) and turned out just fine. If books like these make people leave the faith, it’s certainly not a universal result.
Ultimately I would probably blame parents for not adequately helping their children put certain media into the proper context, and keeping media away from their children if their children are particularly susceptible to certain kinds of media. Some kids don’t need that help, but some kids clearly do. Children need to be equipped with faith and a degree of certainty about that faith, so they can not only resist various temptations in life, but also have a defense against messages that specifically attack their faith. Catechesis begins at home. My parents didn’t really do that good a job with it, and I kind of came to the Church mostly on my own.
I don’t think it’s an accident that there’s been a huge boom in things like wicca and other pagan beliefs in the decades since the Harry Potter books came out.
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adgloriam
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The problem, is that I have met people dabbling in the occult. And the problem, is that cultural influences were always at the origin and upkeep of it - from entry to progression. [Forming a universe feeding those involved with cultural references that backed them up - and also created a cushion for society to be accepting of their practices - inciting omission and removing any fraternal correction.]
It reinforces through sympathy the progression into tarot and divinatory practices.
The other guy mentioned “fiction” and “pentagrams”, well have we seen few “rock bands” mixing fiction with pentagrams - you could argue that the lyrics are fictional, many times euphemistic and inconspicuous? This thread never was about geometry or mathematics - it is about magic in media, there is no fiction in fictionalizing sin only moral relativism, parallel to the amorality of secularization.
Magic is synonymous with the occult, goes hand in hand with superstition. The catechism condemns it straight up.
[Ohh yeah, and all those priests and psychiatrist were wrong.]
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adgloriam
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Ohhh man…You haven’t met the people I have met. And didn’t have the childhood friends I had.
Man, a significant part of those parents can’t speak English. The moment one of those “cultural influences” enters the house they have practically no chance to comment or form opinion. Additionally, they may have no conception, even worse: they may themselves be sympathetic to some degree with occult or magic practices. If society at large is told there is no problem with magic or superstition any safe-net of common sense still left in society is pressured to be removed [whoever has commercial or social investments in that sense is more than interested].
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Hebrews12
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The emphasis is on the word “make”. Not influence, but force.
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adgloriam
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I’m sorry, since St.James came to Iberia about 2000 years ago we dropped paganism. Our privilege indeed! Some guy here was talking about “Episcopalian Seminaries” well, we never had those…
The is only One Holy Catholic Church.
Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
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adgloriam
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Ever heard of Brasil?
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Teek
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My concern with Harry Potter is that it is so very interesting and cool to the kids. They wish they could enter into that world. I wished I could enter into that world! The very real, very spectacular nature of what God offers isn’t as tangible to them yet, so it is not as attractive to them, compared to this imaginary amazing world they wish they could have.
That is actually why it has been so good for childhood literacy. Kids who don’t like to read or aren’t strong readers want to enter that world so badly they read it anyway, and become better readers.
I just picked up a book for my 10 year old son by Raymond Arroyo (reporter for EWTN). I read it first because that is what I do, just in case they squeeze something in there that my kids might need to talk about. Or be protected from until they are the right age. It has a similar attraction to Harry Potter. Amazing gifts and powers and unique abilities. A threat from dark forces and a need to defend the light. But the source of the power defending the light is God and virtue. And a relic from Thomas the Apostle.
I love it. I love the idea of funneling that desire kids have for an alternative world to what they have before them into a book that leads them to ponder pious Catholic traditions and the faithfulness of God. It even touched on remaining pure of heart and intention to keep your gifts strong. Their little heart desire for some special force that they could access is given a world to play in that anchors that desire on God.
It is like a brilliant counter move by a chess master. It combats the forces attracting our children away from the Church by harnessing those very same moves made against them for good. Seriously, it is genius.
Here is a link.
http://www.raymondarroyo.com
That is actually why it has been so good for childhood literacy. Kids who don’t like to read or aren’t strong readers want to enter that world so badly they read it anyway, and become better readers.
I just picked up a book for my 10 year old son by Raymond Arroyo (reporter for EWTN). I read it first because that is what I do, just in case they squeeze something in there that my kids might need to talk about. Or be protected from until they are the right age. It has a similar attraction to Harry Potter. Amazing gifts and powers and unique abilities. A threat from dark forces and a need to defend the light. But the source of the power defending the light is God and virtue. And a relic from Thomas the Apostle.
I love it. I love the idea of funneling that desire kids have for an alternative world to what they have before them into a book that leads them to ponder pious Catholic traditions and the faithfulness of God. It even touched on remaining pure of heart and intention to keep your gifts strong. Their little heart desire for some special force that they could access is given a world to play in that anchors that desire on God.
It is like a brilliant counter move by a chess master. It combats the forces attracting our children away from the Church by harnessing those very same moves made against them for good. Seriously, it is genius.
Here is a link.
http://www.raymondarroyo.com
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adgloriam
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@Teek beautiful post on the upbringing of your children. Simply beautiful.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Let me know when it’s time to fire up the Wicker Man with all the copies of Harry Potter inside.
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JamalChristophr
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Anyone ever heard the phrase, “It’s a free country.”
If the Pope has not denounced Harry Potter, then neither do I. Let him go in peace. Perhaps he shall yet turn from the dark side and embrace the one, holy, Catholic, and apostolic Church.
If the Pope has not denounced Harry Potter, then neither do I. Let him go in peace. Perhaps he shall yet turn from the dark side and embrace the one, holy, Catholic, and apostolic Church.
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jfz178
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If you are a weak-minded Catholic fundamentalist automaton, yeah Harry Potter could get you possessed by the Devil, along with yoga, meditation, guitar Masses, Masses in English, disordered priests, disordered bishops, a disordered Pope, (disordered anything, for that matter, fundamentalists LOVE that word!) being the military, owning guns, voting for Trump and just about anything else other than sitting in church all day praying the Rosary (when the Latin Mass is not going on).
If on the other hand, you are a Catholic who is proud to use the brain that the Good Lord gave you, Harry Potter is just a modern fairy tale. It’s fiction!!! That means it’s not real!!!
If on the other hand, you are a Catholic who is proud to use the brain that the Good Lord gave you, Harry Potter is just a modern fairy tale. It’s fiction!!! That means it’s not real!!!
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JamalChristophr
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You just wait until the next witch flies into your home unannounced, asking for your wallet and all your family valuables. Then where will you be? hmmm?
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