Has anyone read the Qu 'ran? (A question for Muslims as well)

[Lucy26]

“He doesn’t even believe that God would let the Bible be corrupted.”

I’ve heard that Muslim’s say that about Scripture. The Quran was written hundreds of years after the Bible.

I’ve tried reading the Quran, and to me, the paragraphs run in circles and say nothing.

Practicing Muslims believe in a very “hit and miss” version of the Bible. Well, mainly miss actually. They completely miss Jesus.

Actually every Imam I have ever learned from has said that Islam teaches that the Bible is in fact corruped… And Barb, you are right about believing in a very “hit and miss” version of the Bible. My husband and I have both always been told that we shouldn’t even read one, let alone own one, because it might lead us astray. Which makes me wonder… if what you have is the truth, and you are sure that it is the truth, why the need to control what your fellow believers do or do not read?

As for the original post, yes I have read the Qu’ran in it’s entirety.

 

[Lucy26]

Well, they don’t completely miss him. Jesus is considered a very important prophet, who preached forgiveness! Unfortunately, his message seems to get overlooked in light of their final prophet.

Yes, it does tend to get overlooked…

 

[Lucy26]

I browse the website regualrly-----thanks for the plug.

I don’t really feel that JihadWatch is very credible… I’ve browsed it and most of what I’ve read has struck me as rather hateful. I have my issues with Islam obviously since I am Muslim and will most likely be converting to Catholicism- BUT I still say that the best way to learn about Islam is to go to Muslims who are strong in their faith and talk to them… not through a hate site.

 

[Lucy26]

Or you could check out LoonWatch, decrying how totally ridiculous the aforementioned site is.

I check out LoonWatch fairly regularly

 

[Lucy26]

*edited b/c I might have mispoken and I want to be sure before I post it again, sorry about that!

 

[arabic_catholic]

Thank you again for your reply.

So are Muslims capable of loving God or is worship purely out of fear? If so, what would be a reason for a Muslim to love Him?

the image of allah(god) in the mind of muslims

he is the creator of heaven and earth

and we need to worship him and he dont need us but he will reward us in the heaven (garden of eden) by giving us all Pleasures we can imagin such us Virgins
castles- big lands -heaven fruits -and rivers of wine

but if you did not make his well you will suffer in hell and barzak(the life between this life and heaven)

when a shaikh want young muslims to come back and pray and be faithfull

not because god love them oh no

it’s because god will destroy you in barzak and make you suffer by sending snakes and the angels will Tortures by a big hammer and that is only in barzak

because you have another round in hell !!

but if you are faithfull you will go to heaven

so that why muslims are always talking about god that he is very Majestic and Severe punishment, that of you mention to them that he(god) will come to earth and die at the cross to remove the sins they will laugh at you and say how dare you talk about god that way, that will make him less majesty and god will never take human flesh , humans are dirt!!

one of the names of god in islam is the most proud one (do you know whoes name in the bible is that ?)

of corse there are many other names of god as mercy and the king and the truth but muslim always talk about god in his majesty

so i hope my answer helped you to understand why muslim fear god more than talking about his love because love is barely mentionad in islamic dogma

 

[dzheremi]

The Bahraini intellectual Diya al-Musawi has talked about the lack of balance between God’s love and His punishments in the teachings of Islamic religious leaders in videos like this one, originally posted by one of our CAF posters from the Middle East (I like the good man’s message so much I saved it in my Youtube favorites). Mr. Musawi and our beloved new guest Arabic Catholic seem to agree on this imbalance. It is dangerous for the thinking of religious people.

I take issue always and forever with Islam’s contention that the incarnation of God’s Word in His Son, Our Savior Jesus Christ, is somehow degrading God or somehow making Him less majestic or polluting Him. Shame that they should ever think that! It seems to me that Islamic thought usually only recognizes majesty in transcendence, but then refuses the greatest example of God’s transcendence for its own ideological reasons – the perfect example of Christ, who is GOD and man! They say that this degrades God by placing Him on man’s “low” level, but if you read the writings of the apostles, fathers, and saints of our faith you see the exact opposite understanding – in their teachings on the incarnation, it is man who is exalted, not of his own accord, but by God Himself.

“Hail, O light! For in us, buried in darkness, shut up in the shadows of death, light has shone forth from heaven, purer than the sun, sweeter than life here below. That light is eternal life, and whatever partakes of it lives, for this is the meaning of the new creation…He has changed sunset into sunrise, and through the cross brought death to life; and having wrenched man from destruction he has raised him to the skies, …having bestowed upon us the truly great, divine, and inalienable inheritance of the Father, deifying man by heavenly teaching, putting his laws into our minds, and writing them on our hearts.” (St. Clement of Alexandria, Exhortation to the Heathen)

“For he was made man that we might be made God; and he manifested himself by a body that we might receive the idea of the unseen Father; and he endured the insolence of men that we might inherit immortality.” (St. Athanasius of Alexandria, On the Incarnation)

“Therefore he was not man, and then became God, but he was God, and then became man, and that to deify us…” (St. Athanasius of Alexandria, Discorse I Against the Arians)

This is the true majesty of God expressed in Christianity, by which death is conquered, sins and inequities are washed away, and we obtain everlasting life not for the fulfillment of pleasures as in Islam’s heaven, but for partaking in the glory of our divine creator (prefigured here on earth in the liturgy), as He has created us to do. It is only from Islam’s low view of humanity that it rejects this true purpose of God’s creation, and says that it is evil and blasphemous. But what does CHRIST JESUS say, and to a lowly thief at that? To the penitent, He says "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”

The sublime words of God, as always, are the truth of the matter. In our lowest, most vanquished and broken state of our humanity, Christ gives us eternal life.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Thank you, that clarified it. So the majority of Muslims interpret it in the same way? If someone had never studied Islam and then read the Qu 'ran, do you think they would interpret it the correct way?

Some of it yes, they mostly interpret the same way. Other parts have more varied interpretations–I don’t want to give you a watered down view, sorry if this is confusing.

If someone never studied Islam and read the Qur’an, it’s likely that some of it they’d probably “interpret” correctly–maybe even most of it, as most of it is clear, and other parts of it incorrectly–as some parts require more knowledge and study to be able to understand.

I was told that Muslims believe that Jesus is Christ/Messiah. My Muslim friend said Muslims believe that Christ will come at the final judgement?

Both are true.

 

[Sister_Amy]

On balance

The similitude of the heart in its travel to Allah is like a bird. Love is its head, and khawf (fear) and rajaa’ (hope) are the wings. When the head and both wings are sound, the bird is capable and skilled in flying. However, when the head is cut off, the bird will die. When the bird loses a wing, it then becomes a target for every hunter and predator. The scholars favored, however, the wing of fear over the wing of hope, especially when the person is young and healthy. They favored the wing of hope over the wing of fear when the person is about to leave this world.

Ibn Qayyim (classical scholar of Islam)

 

[arabic_catholic]

The Bahraini intellectual Diya al-Musawi has talked about the lack of balance between God’s love and His punishments in the teachings of Islamic religious leaders in videos like this one, originally posted by one of our CAF posters from the Middle East (I like the good man’s message so much I saved it in my Youtube favorites). Mr. Musawi and our beloved new guest Arabic Catholic seem to agree on this imbalance. It is dangerous for the thinking of religious people.

I take issue always and forever with Islam’s contention that the incarnation of God’s Word in His Son, Our Savior Jesus Christ, is somehow degrading God or somehow making Him less majestic or polluting Him. Shame that they should ever think that! It seems to me that Islamic thought usually only recognizes majesty in transcendence, but then refuses the greatest example of God’s transcendence for its own ideological reasons – the perfect example of Christ, who is GOD and man! They say that this degrades God by placing Him on man’s “low” level, but if you read the writings of the apostles, fathers, and saints of our faith you see the exact opposite understanding – in their teachings on the incarnation, it is man who is exalted, not of his own accord, but by God Himself.

“Hail, O light! For in us, buried in darkness, shut up in the shadows of death, light has shone forth from heaven, purer than the sun, sweeter than life here below. That light is eternal life, and whatever partakes of it lives, for this is the meaning of the new creation…He has changed sunset into sunrise, and through the cross brought death to life; and having wrenched man from destruction he has raised him to the skies, …having bestowed upon us the truly great, divine, and inalienable inheritance of the Father, deifying man by heavenly teaching, putting his laws into our minds, and writing them on our hearts.” (St. Clement of Alexandria, Exhortation to the Heathen)

“For he was made man that we might be made God; and he manifested himself by a body that we might receive the idea of the unseen Father; and he endured the insolence of men that we might inherit immortality.” (St. Athanasius of Alexandria, On the Incarnation)

“Therefore he was not man, and then became God, but he was God, and then became man, and that to deify us…” (St. Athanasius of Alexandria, Discorse I Against the Arians)

This is the true majesty of God expressed in Christianity, by which death is conquered, sins and inequities are washed away, and we obtain everlasting life not for the fulfillment of pleasures as in Islam’s heaven, but for partaking in the glory of our divine creator (prefigured here on earth in the liturgy), as He has created us to do. It is only from Islam’s low view of humanity that it rejects this true purpose of God’s creation, and says that it is evil and blasphemous. But what does CHRIST JESUS say, and to a lowly thief at that? To the penitent, He says "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”

The sublime words of God, as always, are the truth of the matter. In our lowest, most vanquished and broken state of our humanity, Christ gives us eternal life.

i always love to listen to almusawi even though i come from sunni background

if the langauge of islamic shaikhs was the same as people like almusawi and Hamza Yusuf i Guarantee that the picture of islam will be much peaceful but the problem is al musawi views are not welcome by most islamic scholars and most people in the middle east reject it

they always make fun of him because he put jesus picture and listen to classic music !! you can make a search in google or yourube and you can see how most people think about his wonderful ideas

the people who love his ideas are Liberal but traditional muslims will fight him back

and they are right!! real and Traditional islam will never accept to reform itself because there are many obstacle passages in quran and hadith that will keep this close mind language alive

did you know that well known islamic scholars made fatwa said that watching world cup is a sin because you are supporting infidels team and infidel players!!

i know that some muslims will say i cant believe it but who made this fatwa are very known in the islamic world

i am very sorry of any muslim feel Offended from what i wrote but i realy want every one to think for a moment and make review to what (hate langauge muslims) are saying and why they are saying it?

ruba qewar (former muslim ) said she was amazed from how people represent islam in the west and how they will represent it in the middle east !

in the west it’s a religion of peace but in the middle east they are still crying and shouting we lost spain !!!

 

[dzheremi]

You are right of course, Arabic Catholic. Al-Musawi and others like him are a very small minority. It is too bad that this is the case, as he speaks a language that, if it were “true Islam”, would no doubt make people like me believe that Islam is the “religion of peace” Muslims claim it is. Unfortunately, Islam’s history (not only traditional Muslims) shows us what a lie this is. Yes, they lost Spain…and by the grace of God one day they will likewise lose the other lands they stole by force. Christ Jesus assures us in the book of Matthew “Every plant which my heavenly Father did not plant shall be uprooted”. Muslims would benefit from heeding the Savior’s words.

Yes, I remember hearing some dim rumblings about that anti-soccer fatwa, as soccer is quite popular in many Muslim-dominated nations. I think it is a perfect example of how paranoid certain strains of Islam are about the rest of the world. They say we are infidels, they say we are najis…all kinds of ridiculous things come out of these idiots’ mouths, and the people listen to them and become lost by following their idiocy. Again, if Muslims would take heed of the perfect guidance of Our Lord in the book of Matthew, they would learn what happens when the blind lead the blind. Of course, the evidence of this is all around us, and not only in Muslim nations, as people everywhere follow every kind of law but the law of God. The Muslims think they find it in the Shari’a, but as another fine Arab poster here who yearns to be Christian has posted, in Islam we find a set of laws for EARTHLY life, while in Christianity we find the law for ETERNAL heavenly life. This perfectly expresses the truth, to me! (alf shukr, Sam, if you read this!)

It is interesting…if you search for Ruba Qewar on Google like I did (because I didn’t know this person or their story), you’ll find her website which has her story on it, but below it on the same page of Google results you’ll find website posts by Muslims rejoicing in her having left Christianity, but all dated 2-3 years ago. Haha. I guess it is true what they say, that ~60% (or more) of Muslim “reverts” leave Islam within one or two years. And still they continue their propaganda war against us by showing off any western converts…

 

[Thyme]

I have been reading all these posts and posts on another thread where some Muslims and ex-Muslims have given their views on Islam. These are my assumptions so far:

The Muslim view on God and Heaven: A Muslim’s relationship with God seems to be more out of fear and ritual. You can’t pray for non-Muslims unless it is for their conversion. In Heaven you are rewarded with material things such as non-alcoholic wine and virgins.

**The Christian view on God and Heaven: **Christians’ relationship with God tends to be out of love of His mercy. If a Christian is unforgiving of anyone, then they do not have true love for God. The reward in Heaven is happiness in God’s love and souls in Heaven will pray for those on Earth.

This is just what I have observed and please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[meedo]

I don’t really feel that JihadWatch is very credible… I’ve browsed it and most of what I’ve read has struck me as rather hateful. I have my issues with Islam obviously since I am Muslim and will most likely be converting to Catholicism- BUT I still say that the best way to learn about Islam is to go to Muslims who are strong in their faith and talk to them… not through a hate site.

Awesome!

 

[Steel_Pinwheel]

I’ve tried to read the Muslim Qu’ran and the Jewish Talmud. But, neither are easy to read and there’s no NIV version of them (NIV=very easy to read, even if not very accurate). Both are intolerant, even hateful, of others. Unlike in the New Testament, love is MIA in both of these books.

Many people quoting the Koran to attack Islam are taking quotes out of context.

 

[Thyme]

I’ve tried to read the Muslim Qu’ran and the Jewish Talmud. But, neither are easy to read and there’s no NIV version of them (NIV=very easy to read, even if not very accurate). Both are intolerant, even hateful, of others. Unlike in the New Testament, love is MIA in both of these books.

Many people quoting the Koran to attack Islam are taking quotes out of context.

Jewish Talmud isn’t hateful like the Qu 'ran is. The Israelits had to fight back against the Pagans, who would heat up god statues and burn their babies alive as sacrifices. At one point, when some pagans took control of the Israelits, they slit open the stomachs of pregnant women. The Israelits were surrounded by these sort of people, who kept going to attack them or tried to bring them into their ways. If the Messianic line was lost, there would be no New Testament.

The difference is that the Israelites were up against a barbaric race and Muhammed’s followers were simply against people who didn’t accept Muhammed.

“In the Old Covenant, I sent prophets wielding thunderbolts to My people. Today I am sending you with My mercy to the people of the whole world. I do not want to punish aching mankind, but I desire to heal it, pressing it to My Merciful Heart…”

 

[Sister_Amy]

Thyme, do you know much about what the pagan Arabs used to do? They didn’t just deny Muhammad–in fact, they were guilty of barbarism similar to what you’ve described about the enemies of the Israelites.

They buried infant daughters alive, danced in front of idols, naked in the House of Allah.

They tortured the Muslims, sanctioned Muhammad’s (pbuh) entire clan, so they suffered for three years on the outskirts of the city without even able to get food from the city.

And then when the Muslims finally had somewhere to go, and left Makkah, the Quraysh went to war with them.

So if you only read the passages which talk about those people, you might find it “hateful.” How else would you expect God Almighty to talk to/about such people? Especially when you have the Hebrew Bible as a testament to the fact that God was not gentle with them in the past.

 

[Steel_Pinwheel]

Jewish Talmud isn’t hateful like the Qu 'ran is.

If I quoted from it, I’d be accused of being antisemitic.

The Israelits had to fight back against the Pagans, who would heat up god statues and burn their babies alive as sacrifices.

Do, you don’t mean that it isn’t hateful. You mean it has good reason to be hateful.

 

[Thyme]

Thyme, do you know much about what the pagan Arabs used to do? They didn’t just deny Muhammad–in fact, they were guilty of barbarism similar to what you’ve described about the enemies of the Israelites.

They buried infant daughters alive, danced in front of idols, naked in the House of Allah.

They tortured the Muslims, sanctioned Muhammad’s (pbuh) entire clan, so they suffered for three years on the outskirts of the city without even able to get food from the city.

And then when the Muslims finally had somewhere to go, and left Makkah, the Quraysh went to war with them.

So if you only read the passages which talk about those people, you might find it “hateful.” How else would you expect God Almighty to talk to/about such people? Especially when you have the Hebrew Bible as a testament to the fact that God was not gentle with them in the past.

Did Jews and Christians do this as well?

 

[Sister_Amy]

Did Jews and Christians do this as well?

Do what?

 

[Thyme]

Do what?

Did they attack the Muslims in the Qu 'ran like the Pagans did? I was just wondering because there are many hateful writings about Jews and Christians. I don’t want to quote them here because they are quite negative, but I would like to know the Muslim interpretation of view on them.