Has the #MeToo movement become a witch-hunt to a significant degree?

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AlNg said:
Shouldn’t a woman know that there is something amiss about meeting a man alone in his room in a hotel?
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I really think you should read the in-depth articles about how Weinstein did it. A few points:

–Their agents (who knew what Weinstein was and what he was likely to do) sent them to these meetings.
–Sometimes it would be at a festival or some other non-local thing where nobody had an office and show biz people typically use hotel rooms for meetings.
–My husband’s industry (academia–which is far, far from Hollywood) typically does job interviews in hotel rooms during major conferences. However, the governing body for my husband’s discipline insists that colleges get hotel rooms with suites. That’s no guarantee of virtue, but it does avoid the situations that used to happen back in the 1970s, when female job candidates would find themselves interviewed by several men while sitting on unmade beds.
–Weinstein and his employees often used a sort of funneling technique. A meeting would be scheduled in a hotel restaurant but then when the actress/victim arrived, she’d be told that Mr. Weinstein is upstairs. Then she’d go upstairs to his hotel room and initially there’d be an assistant or two, but then they’d vanish and OH MY GOODNESS!

So, it wasn’t as stupid as it sounds, and Weinstein had a lot of people giving him a helping hand.
 
AlNg said:
That’s not right. First the woman is a victim of a disgusting abuser, and now she is victimized secondly because men are advised not to date or marry her.
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That’s not my position, but you’ll hear it fairly regularly on CAF.
 
Joe_5859 said:
If people actually believed in their heart the truth of the Catholic teaching on the dignity of the human person, they would not want to commit these types of acts. Obviously, we will never completely arrive at that point this side of heaven. But our goal should be to get as close as we can.
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I don’t disagree with what you’re saying, but I can’t fully agree with it either. I just think the problem is much deeper than just what people hold in their hearts. It has to do with broader societal notions of the right to privacy and autonomy, and where that right begins for women.

I have met many very nice men in the church. I don’t dislike them. But on numerous occasions, the priest has had to step in on my behalf and tell these men that they need to ask if they are going to put their hands on me. I don’t think any of them meant harm or disrespect. I’m quite sure they don’t have a mean or hurtful bone in their body. It just never occurred to them that I might mind a boisterous hug or being grabbed around the shoulder or waist. And as a young woman, I am conditioned not to object lest I risk being labelled as “cold” or “standoffish”.

That needs to change. Only it’s not going to when people continue to look at movements like #MeToo and decide it must be a witchhunt instead of considering the real issues behind the hashtag.
 
Xantippe said:
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Edmundus1581:
So, is she a #metoo survivor? By what criteria?
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Her employer’s son tried to kiss her while she was at work at a job she couldn’t afford to lose. shudder

That’s really bad. How would you feel if it was your daughter in the cleaning lady’s position? Wouldn’t you feel like the kid was taking advantage?
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It would depend on all the circumstances - which I know, and you don’t. Yes, I have a daughter. This young lady’s parents were very encouraging of our relationship. They never met me (being interstate), but simply learned from her reports that I was a “very nice boy”. When I was about to marry someone else they sent her to attempt to dissuade me. They were right.

I asked whether this attempted kiss was a #metoo moment, and that it was has been confirmed by multiple women.

I’ve also got some unsolicited advice on my morality.

A question about a particular incident is not an invitation to post your opinions on the person and their morality, especially when you have only a fragment of information about the incident and persons.

I expect the irony in the above remark will be lost, unless I point it out, which I’m doing now. 🙂
anikins said:
Yup. She is a #metoo survivor. Shame on you for thinking you were right to force yourself on a woman who had no interest in you whatsoever. May god help you and open your mind and heart.
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casslean said:
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Edmundus1581:
Does anyone know whether #metoo includes an unsolicited attempt to kiss, with the appropriate body movement, which was rejected? If so, then I am a perpetrator, and the lady a “victim”.
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Yeah, actually, it does.

That’s that thing about #MeToo. You, and other men like you, are afraid you might be told you were a perpetrator of sexual aggression towards a woman when you “didn’t mean it”. I get that.
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TheAmazingGrace said:
…He was wrong to do what he did, and he shouldn’t do it again. Sad to see that telling him so didn’t make a dent, since he’s thanking you for excusing his actions.
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As I said at the start, I wanted to know from the experts whether this attempted kiss was a #metoo moment. You requested more information, which I provided, and that was sufficient for you to confirm that it is

I’m so glad that I grew up in an era when young men and women were expected to handle these things between themselves, and did. It was often awkward and confusing, and people made mistakes, and people sinned, but we didn’t see anything political in an attempted kiss. We were interested in the bigger picture - which is selecting a mate for life. My relationship with this young lady continued on that basis. We never said it, but we both knew it.

I’ve very much enjoyed reminiscing over a poignant moment with a special person.
 
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Edmundus1581 said:
I’m so glad that I grew up in a era when young men and women were expected to handle these things between themselves, and did. It was often awkward and confusing, and people made mistakes, and people sinned, but we didn’t see anything political in an attempted kiss. We were interested in the bigger picture - which is selecting a mate for life. My relationship with this young lady continued on this basis. We never said it, but we both knew it.
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The era you grew up in created the serial sexual abusers we see today and encouraged a culture that told women to just shut up and put up with it, because this was the cost of being a woman.
 
Edmundus1581 said:
Does anyone know whether #metoo includes an unsolicited attempt to kiss, with the appropriate body movement, which was rejected? If so, then I am a perpetrator, and the lady a “victim”.
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Just out of curiosity: How often do you try to kiss someone so suddenly that you honestly have no way to know she has no intention of kissing you back, such that you can’t call off the intended attempt? Is this something that happens to you much?

What do you mean by “with appropriate body movement”? I’m honestly unsure what that means.

You had better have some evidence of intention to cooperate before you plant a kiss on a woman with whom you have no established routine of kissing.

Also, what is with putting the word “victim” in quotation marks? What would you call it if some guy came up a planted a kiss on a woman who absolutely did not want to be kissed and was given no real chance to say so before she was? It isn’t as if a kiss on the mouth is a handshake.
 
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Agreed, he should have obtained a signed consent form witnessed by a notary public along with a blood test for alcohol and drugs for all parties involved first.
 
PetraG said:
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Edmundus1581:
Does anyone know whether #metoo includes an unsolicited attempt to kiss, with the appropriate body movement, which was rejected? If so, then I am a perpetrator, and the lady a “victim”.
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Just out of curiosity: How often do you try to kiss someone so suddenly that you honestly have no way to know she has no intention of kissing you back, such that you can’t call off the intended attempt? Is this something that happens to you much?

What do you mean by “with appropriate body movement”? I’m honestly unsure what that means.

You had better have some evidence of intention to cooperate before you plant a kiss on a woman with whom you have no established routine of kissing.
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This is a response to my first question, which we’ve already followed up on at length. I don’t have time to go back this far in the thread.
 
There you go. Everything must be put in writing by a lawyer, notarized and signed by both parties. Or, better yet, young people can be taught rules about meeting new people. What is acceptable, what is not and how to earn respect. I was taught all of the rules. I was taught to be a gentleman. Sometimes, I would ask a girl out and she would say no. That was never taken as an insult and it was OK to be friends after. For the girls who said yes, it was important to build a relationship based on common principles. I immediately recognized these principles in women I got to know whether we dated or not. Touching a woman you don’t know, aside from a brief introductory hand shake, along with a “Nice to meet you.” is as far as it goes.
 
“Feminism has gone too far. Men have been pushed to the brink of becoming nervous & considerate on their first dates. I’m so sorry for my hand this dystopia.”

“Guy says ‘I don’t know how to flirt anymore’ I say ‘You never did.’”
 
Some one in a previous post quoted something to that effect as some evidence that few accusations were false.
 
Edmundus1581 said:
It was often awkward and confusing, and people made mistakes, and people sinned, but we didn’t see anything political in an attempted kiss.
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It’s not political - it’s about respecting boundaries. You not only disrespected a boundary (trying to push unsolicited physical intimacy on someone who didn’t want it, and whom you were in a position of power over), but you tried to use her clothing to justify it. I hope you teach your children to both be better and expect better than that.
 
Xantippe said:
There’s also the question–if MeToo has gone too far, when were things peachy keen and perfectly fair, exquisitely balanced between protecting victims and protecting the reputations of the innocent accused?

I don’t think there ever has been such a time.
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That is kind of why I can believe both that it can be too much of a witch hunt, and that it is still a positive movement. It has done a lot of good in overturning some powerful men that needed to lose access to women. Yet as it goes on, of course there are a lot of band-wagon jumpers that are just trying to get in the news.
 
pnewton said:
Yet as it goes on, of course there are a lot of band-wagon jumpers that are just trying to get in the news.
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Most of the people involved in this movement are just ordinary women on social media. I think all our talk about celebrities has made us forget that.
 
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Edmundus1581 said:
We were interested in the bigger picture - which is selecting a mate for life. My relationship with this young lady continued on that basis. We never said it, but we both knew it.
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If she never said it, then you don’t know it.
 
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