Has the #MeToo movement become a witch-hunt to a significant degree?

[Plmokn]

True to both points. We should never put ourselves in dangerous places. I don’t understand these women who go up to a hotel room to have a business meeting. Uh…no. I will meet you in the lobby of the hotel. Better yet, I will meet you at a coffee shop down the street. I think these high profile cases of these celebrities diminish the real stories of ordinary people who truly suffer at the hands of predetors. Some of these stories are unreal as to how naive these women are. I can’t believe it. So then I have to say these events are more transactional for them. Again, there is a whole spectrum of these cases. I just tend not to put much weight into the ones celebrities tell. Some guy pulls out his penis in front of me in a restaurant kitchen and I am calling 911. After I kick him but good where it counts.

 

[Xantippe]

Personally, my opinion is “one and done”. Some guy pulls a stunt like his on me once, and it was his last (when I was younger, of course; as an older female I don’t have this problem so much any longer).

So, did you speak up publicly and immediately expose the guy?

If you didn’t do so, why are you blaming other women for doing the same thing?

 

[Cruciferi]

You appear to desire secular answers to your questions. This demonstrates that punishment alone will not stop unwanted behavior.

Here’s the Church concerning The Human Person and Society http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c2a1.htm

 

[Plmokn]

If you didn’t do so, why are you blaming other women for doing the same thing?

Yes. I did.

I also engaged in public humiliation of the perp right in the moment, if there were other people within close vicinity. Very effective.

 

[TheAmazingGrace]

You appear to desire secular answers to your questions. This demonstrates that punishment alone will not stop unwanted behavior.

I never said punishment alone will stop sexual abuse. In addition, you haven’t presented any evidence to support the idea that widespread conversion to Catholicism will stop rape. I’m skeptical of promoting religion as the cure-all for rape because: 1) it’s not practical to expect actual implementation at this point, and 2) I don’t have much reason to believe it’ll actually work. Like I said, rape is still an issue in majority-Catholic countries, often more so than in the US.

 

[anikins]

Yup. She is a #metoo survivor. Shame on you for thinking you were right to force yourself on a woman who had no interest in you whatsoever. May god help you and open your mind and heart.

 

[Theo520]

Weeeell, we know that conservative mores do not protect boys in Afghanistan from abuse.

Conservative/traditional doesn’t necessarily mean safer for children.

you are reeking of desperation, go take a shower.

As I recall it was a patriot that blew the whistle on that action, and was punished.
It was the Obama admin that turned a blind eye.

 

[Melchior_1]

In practice, multiple people need to come forward before due process can happen. See, for example, Larry Nassar.

So it’s not an either/or type thing.

The Jehovah’s Witnesses for many years (and, in some cases, still do so today) employ the “rule of two”; there must be two witnesses in order to proceed with any sort of internal investigation for abuse cases - even at times discouraging people from going to the police. That meant if a child was abused, their word alone would be insufficient.

In practice, there are times when there’s not multiple children who are physically and/or sexually abused by family members. Or there are a couple of young children, but something happens to change the course of a trial.

The man was found not guilty. He continued to work as a teacher in a small town, where he was protected by his friends. Around ten years after the trial he was found guilty of raping his third ex-wife - the same ex-wife who lied under oath, who after swearing upon the Good Book, said that he did nothing to those kids. Even though way back when, she saw everything. One particular weekend, while bruises were being formed, she sat on damn rocking chair and did absolutely nothing. There wasn’t fear in her eyes, just coldness, which was displayed later when she told that young boy it was his fault the man did that to him due to how terrible of a child he was. She was not the first who he raped, but the other could not come forward for the same reason the young boy could not. Due to being found not guilty for child abuse, nothing said in that trial nearly a decade earlier could be used against him.

In the eyes of the law, the child abuse never happened. If him and that child were in the room, who would you believe?

 

[lilypadrees]

It’s been run into the ground. It’s the “in” thing now to report someone for alleged sexual harassment. It should’ve been reported at the time and acted upon then not dredged up after so many years.

Why no statute of limitations as there are in so many other things? If an ordinary person reported it, there would be a statute of limitations. Sadly, the famous seem not to have gotten the memo. They need to.

The bright spot is soon there will be no one left to accuse. Maybe then, we’ll get back to some wholesome programming in the entertainment industry.

 

[SuperLuigi]

That being said, I look for some defamation suits to be filed against some accusers.

The best way to blunt false accusations is a direct, bold response. My advice would be to file a countersuit, get a restraining order if necessary and have lawyers send the accusers and their sympathizers as needed letters indicating that if they discuss it on the internet, that may be used as evidence in court and that they can contact web-based companies to provide the information under a court order if needed.

 

[SuperLuigi]

If you two have resolved the situation, don’t bother listening to what people with anonymous accounts (especially the virtue-signaling ones) on the internet (CAF) think.

 

[Sarcelle]

This is why we have something called due process. It is meant to address cases where real crimes have taken place but at the same time protect innocent people from false accusations.

Also the fact that these accusations takes place on social media is frankly quite disturbing.

 

[Cruciferi]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[Sarcelle]

Mere intellectual assent to the idea of Catholicism will not stop these crimes. However a sincere change of heart and effort in the practice of the virtues and morals encouraged by Catholicism can go a long way towards reducing rape and other crimes.

 

[casslean]

Does anyone know whether #metoo includes an unsolicited attempt to kiss, with the appropriate body movement, which was rejected? If so, then I am a perpetrator, and the lady a “victim”.

Yeah, actually, it does.

Here’s the thing. I’m not a tiny girl, but I am still shorter, lighter, and weaker than the vast majority of men in my life.

I have had to endure slaps to the rear, unsolicited kisses, being grabbed and held, etc., etc. And that’s not even getting into the bevy of catcalls that accompany my every walk to work, lunch, the gym, or church.

In the vast majority of those cases, you know what’s going through my mind? “Oh God, if he decides to get more physical, to not back off when I say, to push this… I’m not big enough to fight him off.”

That’s that thing about #MeToo. You, and other men like you, are afraid you might be told you were a perpetrator of sexual aggression towards a woman when you “didn’t mean it”. I get that.

But I’m afraid of being raped. That is my biggest fear every. Single. Day.

If this movement makes even one man stop and ask before he assumes he has a right to put his hands on me, then it’s worth everyone else feeling a little uncomfortable.

 

[Edmundus1581]

Edmundus1581:

She continued to be sexually provocative with me.

I don’t know if that’s actually true, or if that’s just your perception. According to both Catholic and secular standards, it’s not appropriate to try and give unsolicited kisses to women you’re not romantically involved with. Also, clothing does not constitute an invitation. You’re Catholic, right? Why are you acting like it’s okay to let someone else’s “provocative” clothing dictate your actions?

If you two have resolved the situation, don’t bother listening to what people with anonymous accounts (especially the virtue-signaling ones) on the internet (CAF) think.

Thankyou. We resolved the situation at the time. This was early in a three year relationship in which both of us had strong feelings, but were poorly communicated. It didn’t help that she was a non-Christian and quite sexually experienced, while I was a Catholic, a virgin, and sexually awkward. We both have had some regret that nothing came of it. After the end of my marriage we resumed our friendship, and the deep affection for each other is still there.

Thanks again.

 

[Xantippe]

The best way to blunt false accusations is a direct, bold response. My advice would be to file a countersuit, get a restraining order if necessary and have lawyers send the accusers and their sympathizers as needed letters indicating that if they discuss it on the internet, that may be used as evidence in court and that they can contact web-based companies to provide the information under a court order if needed.

Now, that sounds like a way to lose in the court of public opinion, especially once your opponents start fundraising their legal costs online.

But, sure, do it your way. See what happens.

 

[Xantippe]

you are reeking of desperation, go take a shower.

As I recall it was a patriot that blew the whistle on that action, and was punished.

It was the Obama admin that turned a blind eye.

facepalm

To make myself quite clear, I was making the argument that Afghanistan has some of the most conservative, most traditional mores on the face of the planet, and yet at the same time, Afghanistan also has a traditional custom of sexual exploitation of young boys by older men.

Likewise, the Legionaries were very conservative, and yet at the same time, were systematically abusive of boys and young men.

Marcial Maciel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

(Interestingly, that article says, “In 1997, a group of nine men went public with accusations that they had been abused as youths and young men by Maciel while studying under him in Spain and Rome in the 1940s and 1950s. The group, which included respectable academics and former priests, lodged formal charges at the Vatican in 1998” and Macield stepped down as head of the order some years later. Notice that it took a group of nine accusers to bring down Maciel, and note how long it took between the abuse to the accusation to the resignation.)

See also the horrible Protestant Bill Gothard, who was both ultra-conservative, as well as being accused of harassing dozens of young women and molesting several, including a 16-year-old:

Bill Gothard - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Edited to add: see also how young Josh Duggar was free to molest five different girls under his parents’ very conservative roof.

I think we need to divest ourselves of the idea that being “conservative” or “traditional” is some sort of panacea against sexual misconduct, because there are innumerable examples of traditional mores providing safe-harbor for abusers. It’s really, really important to think about how abusers get away with it, and what normal people are doing that makes it so easy for them.

 

[Xantippe]

There’s also the question–if MeToo has gone too far, when were things peachy keen and perfectly fair, exquisitely balanced between protecting victims and protecting the reputations of the innocent accused?

I don’t think there ever has been such a time.

 

[Theo520]

To make myself quite clear, I was making the argument that Afghanistan has some of the most conservative, most traditional mores on the face of the planet, and yet at the same time, Afghanistan also has a traditional custom of sexual exploitation of young boys by older men.

Sorry but we are on a US forum, talking about the ‘western’ #MeToo movement.
The term ‘conservative’ should obviously represent what is traditionally conservative for posters from the western hemisphere. Your example is a red herring, as useful as if I compared ‘liberals’ to a society of complete chaos with no rules or social mores.

Work on your language and don’t misapply ‘conservative’, it’s just divisive, not clever.

If you want to talk about Afghan cultural mores, that is a very different thread than one on the #MeToo movement in the USA.