Have You Experienced the "Dark Night of the Soul"?

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About 7 years ago I had one of those “Close encounters of the God kind” as Jesse Duplantis calls it. I read every evangelist witness,from Andrew Wamac to St. John of the Cross and none seemed to have the intensity or the following visions that I have had. Yet every one has had part of the journey. Such as Joyce Myers describes “Love Potion # 9” " A free sample to get you interested in paying the price of the Spiritual journey to God". Andrew Wamac Describes the month of perfect Joy in walking with the Lord just before he went to Vietnam, that help him stay at peace while everyone around him was falling apart. St John of the Cross talkes of the search in the vanity of vanities till he saw everything fail the test to satisfy his soul till he found himself past the purgative way of the flesh in the dark night of sense and past the his deepest desires of his soul in the dark night of the soul till the fire of love joined him in the perfect will of God in the Dark night of the Spirit and his former self was lost and consumed in this enormous love like two logs burning in the fire till all that is left is a mass of pure Glowing light. I can relate to St. John of the Cross more than any of our contemporary visionaries because in his day he was so isolated that news of others on a spiritual journey was unknown to him and he said he knew of no one who had journeyed to the place that he had gone except Jesus who he came to know quit well.
I think what makes a lot of us crazy is we try to follow someone elses path. I think that what we can gain from reading some other persons path is to know that we to also are a path know only to God and to us if we chose to listen to our Good Shepard who desires to take us to the undiscovered country of peace on earth and good will toward man resting in the vision of God and His unconditional Love. We love God, but not that we loved him but rather He first loved us while we where yet sinners, that is why we love him. God Bless
 
I’ve been reading St Teresa since I was sixteen years old now. That’s about 34 years.

I am profoundly unhappy, though with folks who take an elevated and overly pious attitude to her writings and interpretation of the subject matter.
I am uncomfortable hearing her writings quoted as though they were scripture…
For there is no “life” in this constant quotation.
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Padraig submitted this admonishment directed to me, immediately after my post to Brabble describing the following sublime spiritual experience of St. Teresa:
It is so important to realize that these wounds of love, spoken about by both Carmelite Doctors, are intense spiritual wounds, bordering on the supernatural. We find her speaking later in 6:1 that the person suffers interior “oppression” — not “depression.” A big difference, indeed, for she says it is so keenly felt and so intolerable that she does not know to what it can be compared.

“The thing is inexpressible, for this distress and oppression are spiritual troubles and cannot be given a name. The best medicine is to occupy oneself with external affairs and works of charity and hope in God’s mercy.” Concluding in 6:1, “This severe distress comes just before the soul’s entrance into the 7th Mansion.”

Elsewhere in 6:1, she states, "How sad it is to see a soul thus forsaken, and how little can it gain from any earthly consolation --skip-- Comfort must come to them from above, for earthly things are of no value to them any more.
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As a dear friend once posted, one can read a manual on how to drive, yet not be able to drive a car. I can dismiss Padraig’s “unhappiness with folks like me” for providing constant, lifeless, and “elevated interpretations” of her writings, because he has apparently never driven the car.

Leaving aside his brash description of her toilet habits in order to make her more human, I would like to focus on the divine favors which elevated her to the loftiest title in the Church, that of Doctor. To dismiss what I shared in post #33 tells me this person has no compassion for the tremendous sufferings of the dark night, nor has any experiential knowledge with which to base his comments.

To correlate St. Teresa’s experience above, which I attempted to provide, solely for the reader’s benefit in understanding the second D/N, I offer this from St. John of the Cross from Spiritual Canticle, Stanza 1:22:
The suffering and the pain arising from God’s absence is usually as intense in those who are nearing the state of perfection, at the time of these divine wounds, that if the Lord did not provide, they would die. Since the palate of their will is healthy and their spirit is cleansed and well prepared for God, and they have been given some of the sweetness of divine love, which they desire beyond all measure, they suffer immeasurably. For an immense good is shown them, as through the fissure of a rock, but not granted them. Thus their pain and torment is unspeakable.
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May those who find this dry, lifeless, and interpretative, please refrain from judging two “great” Saints who have written of, and experienced the most sublime grace of union granted to humans by God. May they find it in their hearts to be compassionate to anyone undergoing this, which is the main purpose in my bringing it to the Forum, for they truly suffer.
 
Dear padraig,

No, not til the crack of doom. I don’t know. My
experience of reading the opening lines of your
post that I quoted above was like being run over
by an 18 wheeler.
You don’t mind if I stagger about a bit, do you?
Ok, now I’m searching my own conscience for
times that I’ve really been insensitive.
I’m wincing at this recall.
OK, I accept your apology.
“In the way you measure out to another, is the
way it will be measured out to you.”
In light of this,
I *really *forgive you!
You know, padraig, I once had the expereince of
disintegration, psychologically. You know what
it was like? I felt like I was dying…that whatever
constitued “me” was being pulled out of me.
It was dreadful.
I realized something this morning. While depression,
disintegration, dissociation, depersonalization and
derealization have made me exquistively sensitive
to fellow sufferers, it has made me dismissive of
other kinds of suffering [Dark Night of the Soul.]
In my own mind, I divide humanity into those who
suffer mental illess and those who are Chronically
Normal [to borrow a phrase.]
This generates a sense of superiority that is not
pretty to see, is it? But, in mercy, perhaps you
could see it as envy and anger toward those who
are not similarly situated.
Whatever distress my post to you above caused
you, please know that your suffering was the
vehicle by which my own scornful attitude was
brought home to me. No small thing, I think, padraig.
I doubt if I can change overnight, but at least now
I’m aware of an attitude that needs to be rooted out,
stem and branch.
Please accept my apology, padraig.

Maureen [reen12]
 
Dear Reen 12 -

I don’t think I’m supposed to do this, but then I’m not too good on the rules and regulations bit . . .

I’ve been floating round the forum reading posts. You remind me of Edith Stein (been reading thread ‘no longer catholic’ but its closed) a highly educated woman who goes through deep interior suffering. The spiritual way is the way of love - an affair of the heart (mmm perhaps I am staying within the thread) and as it says in the dictionary definition I gave of The Dark Night it involves a literal 'groping in the dark) I am stunned that someone so educated has such simplicity and open honesty, integrity, communicating warmth (reflections of St. Therese of Lisiuex or ‘Little St.Therese’ and now Doctor of The Church) . . . these are spiritual qualities indicative of the gift and fruits of the Holy Spirit.
In the Divine Office in one of the psalms these words occur “I do not ask to see the path ahead, one step enough for me” (leastways I think it is the Divine Office - I read/ a lot) and I guess in the deeper regions well anyway as I see it of the Dark Night that is not something we ask, it is just the way it is - we cannot see any path ahead, its a moment by moment almost movement, matter, journey. One seems fixed in a dark dark painful terribly painful dark dark moment of time, of our life, that goes on and one feels will be endless- something like that. There is a painful reaching for God with great ardour - and there I can say no more for the ardour is racked with pain.
I also believe that in the Dark Night the person is in God’s Hands and His alone. This is how I see you. I can’t offer you any comfort though my heart cries out to do so - I just am sure that God is very close to you, very close. I hope that somewhere in your makeup (can’t think of any other word) you know that.
Not often I get stuck for words for sure - but there you are! I’m stuck for words! This will sort out - God’s way, not ours.
 
Maureen,
How wonderful to meet you again! I have often thought and prayed for yourself and your poor mother. I did so to-night when I was saying the rosary.I don’t know what on earth you are apologising for as you’ve never said the least wrong thing to me! Even if you had I’ve a fat hide as strong as an alligators aND WOULDN’T EVEN NOTICE!😉 I am sure if anyone should be apologising it should be me, but I won’t or I’ll be turning into a Japanese buisnessman with all the kow-towing and head bowing I’m doind in this thread!:o
I am touched by the suffering I see in your posts. There is an old saying in Ireland…great cross…great crown It must certainly apply to folks like yourself!👍

Joy
Did you ever read any books by the English Carmelite Prioress and mystic Ruth Burroughs?
She criticises folks who call Tereasa ‘great’ and is lovingly critical of some of the things she got up to? I would love to discuss these with you if you have read Ruth?
Bu the way its not St teasa’s writings dry…they are wonderful…its a constant,dry,mechanistic quoting of her works that drives me up the wall.
Tell me about your praying Joy not hers, tell me about the last time you sang with joy to God…or cried in his lap. Tell me about YOU Joy!!!
ATeNumquam
Yes Tereasa was certainly something. My favourite story about her was the time a nun came to her and thought she was in the Dark Night. Tereasa told her to catch a grip on herself and made her a big steak to cheer her up! Also angels dancing on the dishes is kinda nice!
Tereasa
I am delighted to hear about you’re farting habits as it just goes to show you have a sense of humour and your feet on the ground and are a good prayer. I don’t know about tapping my brains as they are full of
wold stale whisky:yup:
Have you read Ruth Borroughs the English Carmelite Prior on your spiritual mother? I would be fascinated by what you think of her if you have?
 
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brabble:
I read somewhere “the wordy mystic is no mystic”
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I love this statement. 🙂 Thanks brabble! 🙂
 
Tereasa
I am delighted to hear about you’re farting habits as it just goes to show you have a sense of humour and your feet on the ground and are a good prayer. I don’t know about tapping my brains as they are full of
wold stale whisky:yup:
Have you read Ruth Borroughs the English Carmelite Prior on your spiritual mother? I would be fascinated by what you think of her if you have?

Dearest friend

No have never read any of that, I said, I am a dunce and have not read much.

As for mystics being quiet and of few words, utter pish, of the saints who wrote, none wrote more than the mystics in vain effort to get everyone else to try to understand them…

What the phrase should say is

‘To mystics words are inadequate to describe the glories God has graced them with, so they should have used no words at all, but preceded to use many words in a gracious regard to help poorer souls than themselves, but when speaking with humans they needed many words, but when speaking in converse with God did not need any words’

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
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brabble:
Gee Puzzleannie, I think I’ve stuck my foot in things again. I’m not too sure your comments WERE directed about me! . . . oh dear I do apologize . . .
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I was answering the original poster, and referring to the website he quoted, did not intend any personal message for anyone participating in this discussion. by now you know who the ones are who have authentic experience of the infused contemplation referred to by John and Teresa, and those of us who only know of this through reading books, not first hand.
 
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puzzleannie:
I was answering the original poster, and referring to the website he quoted, did not intend any personal message for anyone participating in this discussion. by now you know who the ones are who have authentic experience of the infused contemplation referred to by John and Teresa, and those of us who only know of this through reading books, not first hand.
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Dearest Annie

Know you, clocked you, got you , phew these threads can be hard work sometimes can’t they dearest friend? 🙂

God Bless you dearest friend and much love to you and your Therese God’s Peace and Love to your house

Teresa
 
Teresa, you know whereof you speak, and bless you for that, happy Easter everyone
 
Dear padraig,

I’m so glad to hear you’ve the hide of an alligator!
*

Thank you for your prayers for me and my poor Mom.
[for those reading, Mom has Altzheimer’s and can
no longer stand on her own.]

Sometimes I just feel grouchy, you know?
And many thanks for your anecdote:

Yes Tereasa was certainly something. My favourite story about her was the time a nun came to her and thought she was in the Dark Night. Tereasa told her to catch a grip on herself and made her a big steak to cheer her up
I laughed out loud,
Blessings on you, padraig,
Maureen
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Hi, brabble,

Thanks for taking the time to look at the No Longer
Catholic thread. It was kind of you. One of my
philosophy professors used to kid me about being
like Edith Stein!:o

As far a simplicity goes, that’s what I meant in
that thread about the heart of a six year old.
I once told a psychiatrist that I feel like I have
a Rolls-Royce mind in the chassis of a worn-out
Volkswagon! It makes for power-train problems. :whistle:

Still, I’m reminded of a well known anecdote from
the Hassidic community, by Rebbe Zusia, which I’ll modify:

When I go before God, He won’t ask me why
I wasn’t Edith Stein. He’ll ask me why I wasn’t
reen.

The same Rebbe Zusia was troubled one day that
he could not be as pleasing to God as Moses.
But then he thought: But if I was Moses, then
God wouldn’t have Zusia.

Thank you for your kind thoughts and prayers,
Barbara.

Maureen

By the by, how rare does everyone think the Dark
Night of the soul is? One poster suggested that
anyone experiencing same wouldn’t be here
posting away. I tend to agree with that.
Father Groeschel once said that if anyone watching
his program was in the unitive way, to please turn off his program
and go pray for him!
 
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padraig:
Joy
Did you ever read any books by the English Carmelite Prioress and mystic Ruth Burroughs?

Hi Padraig!
I know you were asking this question of Joy, but I’m butting in here, if I may!
Yes, I’ve read most of Ruth Burrough’s books, and I’m not 100% sure what to make of her; more of herself as a person, I guess. She seems to have a bit of baggage - I can’t quite put my finger on it, but she sounds sort of unduly aggressive or impatient in the way she dismisses common misunderstandings of Saints Teresa & John. I guess as a prioress she has had occasion to get a bit annoyed with stereotyped and inadequate interpretations …
Anyway, that’s a bit beside the point. I did find her re-interpretation of the Interior Castle quite fascinating and refreshing, and felt that she hit upon some very important points that need clarification.
And she is dead right that an over-preoccupation with stages and states can lead to a rather navel-gazing attitude (especially in enclosed contemplatives, perhaps).
In short, I agree with a lot of what she writes, but I find her an unattractive personality, somehow!
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Mother Presumpta and the Seven Colured Robes.

Once upon a time in a place and time far from this Mother Presumpta sat reading her favourite spiritual treatise, ‘The Seven Boxes of Prayer’. Suddenly a great idea flashed into her head.What a good idea it would be if the nuns in the convent had seven coloured robes to denote which box of prayer they were in!!! So it was done as quick as a flash! Gold robes of course, for Mother Assumpta, the novice mistress and prioress. Silver robes for the long suffering monastic councillors…and so on down to the lowly novices who got rather fetching pale blue numbers.
One robe was left! A drab brown number; now who should get hit with THAT!!
Well the answer was obvious to all!!! Sister Patricia, the fat, cheeky irreverant lay sister of course. Why she was fond of whisky, hustled bets with the bookie in the village, told irreverent jokes about farting, laughed and said she puncturing balloons when corrected and such like and worst of all sniggered in inappropriate places in Mother Presumpta’s super pious chapter talks! Why she had even been spotting watching Father Groelch on EWTN and had been know to snigger and make obscene gestures towards the TV when he and Mother Angelica said something she didn’t like! I ask you!!! Disappointedly Sister Patricia only giggled when asked to put the drab brown number on …which kinda spoilt things for the golden girls.
Anyway the years rolled happily by and Mother Presumpta got so good at putting folks in {prayer} boxes and learnt the spiritual treatise off so well that she could tell were folks were at a single glance. Anyway one day the golden and silver ladies were having a chin wag about how to fix Sister Patricia’s waggon for her when their glance fell on the monastery carpenter. They were horrified!! The guy was dressed in white! This the fool that knocked about with protitutes and drunks in the village and laughed and made disparaging remarks about the Boxes of Prayer and the wonderful robes.
The finely dressed ladies descended on the carpenter in rightoeus wrath. How dare he wear white! He must strip at once and wear sack cloth and ashes in repentance!
So the carpenter stripped and the ladies were horrified to discover that this odd ball had the stripes of a common, whipped criminal on his back. Wounds on his hands and feet were he had been punished for his wickedness.
Well you better believe the good silver and gold ladies weren’t too long in giving him a good beating.
But that old fat drunken, brown robed nut, sorry nun, Sister Patricia saw what was going on, got her Irish dander up and knocked Mother Presumpta out cold with one blow of her very large Irish paw.

Well I guess there’s a moral to this story, I’ll leave the reader to figure it out for themselves…but I’ll give you a clue, its something to do with putting folks in boxes…
 
ATeNumquam

You’re on the ball about the Ruth lady!! Have to rush to work! We’ll chat later, I hope!
 
Padraig,

Did the Carpenter then tell Sister Patricia to change into her white robe?

Jesus showed people better boxes, what he didn’t like was people thinking they earned their better box.

Nice story - terrible theology.
 
John,
I have to agree with you! That section, ‘the Carpenter then tell Sister Patricia to change into her white robe?’ ,may well be terrible theology!
But then I didn’t write it, you did! So I suppose you know best!😉
Ever hear that saying about setting up straw men?
Instead of a very imaginative rendering of what I might have said, (if I’d been drunk or on drugs) why not stick to what I** actually said??**
Then, maybe even say why its theologically incorrect.
Does this sound logical?
 
So Sister Patrica was doing alright was she?

We are all called to the feast, but we have to wear our wedding garments.

Mathew 22.

Jesus loves sinners, but do sinners love Jesus? Enough to change our robes?

“Many are called but few are chosen”.
 
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