Hello. I am seeking some advice on marriage issues

[Jay82]

So are you saying then unless and until I have options I can do nothing,say nothing? This is what I am puzzled about.

No, not exactly. But I think your husband feels that he can do what he want because he knows you have no options (and of course he is hooked on the dancer). Never the less, you can do things to draw the line, but you have to hold your ground. Like kick him out for good. Or maybe you leave and stay with family until you can find employment on your own.

Start working to get yourself more marketable if you can. Take a night class, get a certification, brush up your skills, etc. Anything which will make you more appealing to employers.

Does your husband have siblings that can help him out? What about his parents? Have you mentioned this topic to them? I know that would be awkward and tough, but he needs support/help from his loved ones. Unfortunately, I’m sure your husband doesn’t relate to or trust the people he meets at bible study.

Don’t give up on your husband, but in my opinion, if you aren’t firm with him, it will not help him get over this problem. If you threaten him and back down or kick him out to only let him come back despite him not changing it doesn’t help him or you. You need to hold him accountable and you need to have others in his side of the family do the same. Someone needs to knock some sense into him and make him realize how harmful his actions have been.

 

[MtnDwellar]

The bad news is that I have known people to lose everything because of this kind of behavior. Lust is a very strong vice. When it becomes a habit, it is difficult to break. The unfortunate thing is that your husband may very well see the error in his actions and want to change, but change is difficult.

The good news is that it can change. People can change, but wanting to change and actually changing are two different things. Lust is a capital vice. It has many daughters. Sometimes, it is easier to fight the daughters first. It will take a strong effort on his part. There is very little that you can do to help. Removing this defect will ultimately rest in God’s hands.

 

[e3342]

Hi again,
Right now we are separated again for about the 5th or 6th time since last June. It just got down to him emphatically saying he had no guilt feelings about what he did when I asked him “did you have internal arguments with yourself each time you went to see the lap dancers?” (kinda like the angel on one shoulder, the devil on the other) So, I said, I just couldn’t have sex with him anymore, because I think he is just fantasizing about them during it, especially because he always asks me to wear sexy lingerie when we had sex. I said it seemed he never really made love to me, only lust. I said a husband should be able to show his love to his wife without her having to dress up all the time (I"m not against once in a while, or whenever).
And no, we haven’t slept in the same bed for about 5 years because of his snoring and wanting to put a loud, obnoxious sports talk radio station on all night.
So, I feel used, when he doesn’t touch me at all ever, (no hugs, etc.) except when he wants sex. I guess my advice to you is pray, pray, pray. I am now separated, so I may be dating again. Anything to get my mind off this mess. For 30 years, I was married to a man I didn’t know. It was all a sham. He has this other side to him that I think is an addiction. He thinks not because he said he had lull times when he didn’t go all the time, lull times to him equaled once every FIVE WEEKS! I almost died when he said that.
I’ll pray for you too, Corinne. And to all you moms out there…please don’t raise your sons to feel that they can do no wrong! Let them experience putting themselves in other people’s shoes. Let them know they have worth as a future man, because otherwise, they may end up like our husbands…needing the occasional slut fix to make them feel like a man.

 

[floresco]

Dear e3342:
If I could be self-sufficient financially, I would love to be free of this dishonesty and disrespect, (and marriage) but I am not financially self-sufficient at all. Also would this be what God wants? So…what does a wife do??? I’m sure we are not the only ones who have faced this situation before in the history of time. I am not a feminist, and do not want to be alone for the rest of my life with only myself to count on. It would be just too difficult.

God wants your marriage to thrive. If your husband turns away from his adultery, then you should forgive him and live with him again. I am writing from the perspective of someone who was an unfaithful spouse and was forgiven. It is possible for marriages to come back from this.

If your husband will not acknowledge the seriousness of what he is doing, then he can not repent from it. Lap-dancing and internet flirting is adultery in the heart and it is wrong. If he keeps lying to himself about this, then all you can do is pray and protect yourself.

 

[Corinne3]

Thank you.

We are back together, as of about 2 months now. Still, as I said he still phoned this pardon my language, s___, on 4/28, after reconciling again!!!

In the past 2 years, and 4 separations, it was way too difficult on me, and on our kids, without him being in the home. Too much to handle myself, a home, kids, animals, work, car stuff, everything! And I was and am a stay at home mom. So…I know I made the mistake maybe, maybe not, (only God knows) of letting him move back without him busting his butt to restore my trust, without trusting him, without him being repentent, without really feeling he truly wants to change. I thought he did this past February, when he informed me he “called it off permanently with the stripper” so I let him come home. I believed him. He sounded very sincere, saying it was ruining his life, and his family’s lives, (ME and kids). I think he honestly did want to stop it. But then in times of weakness, he probably misses her, and that’s why he phoned her again… Then when I found out, he was caught…and another mess ensued. You see he gave his heart away to someone besides his wife. This is just too much hurt to ever be the same again.

I really do not think I can be intimate with him ever again, and I know I must protect myself, by becoming self-sufficient.I am trying to find a job every day, but nothing yet. I feel too much water has gone under the bridge, and I don’t know if I can ever be in his arms again after he has betrayed me, hurt me, been so untrustworthy.

Should a wife be expected to be intimate with her husband when he has done this to her? I just feel I do not like him or respect him at all anymore. We’ve become lately 2 strangers in the same house, especially since Sunday night when we had a fight due to him lying about contacting women on the internet. He said he hated me, and what a ***** I am, for snooping on him. This crushed me, that he said this to me, his wife. It’s like there is no love or respect left between us, after all we’ve been through. I do not know how things will turn out. One day at a time.
Guess it’s in God’;s hands. I do feel it is the right thing for him to be in the home, all the kicking him out the past 2 years, really did irreparable damage on my kids. He is still my husband, and he belongs here, and has responsibilities. For the sake of our family and myself. Guess, this is just how it has to be now.

thx 4 praying

His parents are enablers. They say, do nothing. They avoid even talking about the problem.

 

[floresco]

Guess it’s in God’;s hands. I do feel it is the right thing for him to be in the home, all the kicking him out the past 2 years, really did irreparable damage on my kids. He is still my husband, and he belongs here, and has responsibilities. For the sake of our family and myself. Guess, this is just how it has to be now.

If you are trying to save your marriage, I suggest reconsidering your decision about intimacy. You have every right to feel that way, but you are making it more difficult for your husband to do the right thing. If you can overcome your reluctance, perhaps you can seduce him to virtue.

There is a book about this called Just Between us Girls amazon.com/Just-Between-Us-Girls-Secrets/dp/0312139934 that may have some helpful ideas. Here is the review:

The central thesis of Barrows’s (Mayflower Madam, Morrow, 1986) latest book is that if a man is cheating on his wife, there is probably nothing wrong-except that his wife isn’t acting enough like a hooker. Not to worry, Barrows offers a primer on the trade of tricks, including blow-by-blow descriptions of sexual maneuvers supposedly exclusive to professionals. The sections dealing with why men stray, how they do it, how to catch them, and how to make them stop are often humorous …] Barrows meanders among a wide array of options for rekindling a marriage that has lost its spark, even offering her favorite brand of lubricant.

 

[jenlovesyu]

Floresco, you probably have much better advice than I have to offer, but don’t you think it’s a little dangerous to be intimate with a spouse who is engaging in adulterous behaviors? Not all STDs need actual sexual contact in order to be spread from one person to another. And since this other spouse is lying, even if he says he isn’t engaging in sex, can he really be trusted?

 

[Ailina]

If you are trying to save your marriage, I suggest reconsidering your decision about intimacy. You have every right to feel that way, but you are making it more difficult for your husband to do the right thing. If you can overcome your reluctance, perhaps you can seduce him to virtue.

There is a book about this called Just Between us Girls amazon.com/Just-Between-Us-Girls-Secrets/dp/0312139934 that may have some helpful ideas. Here is the review:

Let me get this straight: a wife is obliged to act like a hooker in order to keep her husband these days? That kind of sex is not intimacy at all, but all about lust and selfish personal gratification, and not really seeing the person you are in bed with. The advice in that book is being given by a pimp. What do pimps know about love and marriage, exactly? All they know is about sex for money. There is NO intimacy in that whatsoever.

Corrine is not keeping her husband from doing the right thing at all. He himself is, by going to strip clubs and paying strippers to gratify his lust. There is no sexual intimacy in it at all.

 

[floresco]

Floresco, you probably have much better advice than I have to offer, but don’t you think it’s a little dangerous to be intimate with a spouse who is engaging in adulterous behaviors? Not all STDs need actual sexual contact in order to be spread from one person to another. And since this other spouse is lying, even if he says he isn’t engaging in sex, can he really be trusted?

Corinne probably should ask him to get tested, but I got the impression that the major obstacle was her reluctance to be intimate with him. Even though that is completely understandable, usually men who are not getting sex from their wives do not feel loved.

Women often think of love and sex as two different things, but it is typical for men to not make this distinction. When a wife stops having sex with her husband, no matter how well justified her decision, most likely he will experience that as rejection and lack of love. While it does not sound like Corinne’s husband deserves her love, for him to have any chance of overcoming his sin, he needs her love. Assuming that he is making a sincere effort to change (and Corinne will have to discern this with prayer) he needs her help.

 

[Musician]

Corinne, just my two cents, but…
I wouldn’t throw away a 22-year marriage. I certainly would not be intimate with my husband, but I wouldn’t leave him or kick him out, except from my bedroom. I would definitely have him sleep in another room.
I would make it clear that there was no intimacy of any sort until he changes his life. Not sexual, not emotional, not “just friends” - nothing, except nightly prayers with your family.
It will take you a long time to work all this out, but remember, God is in favor of restoring marriages, and He can save yours.
Pray the Rosary every day.

 

[floresco]

Let me get this straight: a wife is obliged to act like a hooker in order to keep her husband these days? That kind of sex is not intimacy at all, but all about lust and selfish personal gratification, and not really seeing the person you are in bed with. The advice in that book is being given by a pimp. What do pimps know about love and marriage, exactly? All they know is about sex for money. There is NO intimacy in that whatsoever.

Corrine is not keeping her husband from doing the right thing at all. He himself is, by going to strip clubs and paying strippers to gratify his lust. There is no sexual intimacy in it at all.

I’m not saying that she is obliged to do this and I’m not saying that she is keeping her husband from doing the right thing. I’m saying that perhaps she could help her husband to do the right thing.

God was not obliged to send His Son to die for our sakes while we were sinners. But that is what God did. And that is our model for love.

 

[monicatholic]

I am now separated, so I may be dating again. Anything to get my mind off this mess.

e33, why in the name of everything holy would you consider dating again any time soon?
first, as a catholic, you’re not free to ‘date’ unless your marriage has been annulled because dating implies a freedom and desire to enter into a relationship. a freedom you ***don’t ***have, a desire you shouldn’t entertain.

why should you battle against the desire to be in a new relationship? you said it yourself: you’ve been living with a stranger for 30 years. what makes you imagine you could pick a healthy date partner from a pool of strangers (or near strangers) when you didnt know your own husband was a leacherous mess living a double life?

even if your marriage was annulled, you would need to spend so much time in prayer, therapy and healing to be certain your instincts were more healthfully active in choosing a partner.

anything to get your mind off this mess might be worse than the mess.

corrine,

if husband is home because there’s too much work to do without him, you’re absolutely free to allow that option. (so long as he’s not abusive or dangerous. then you’d have a moral responsibility to keep yourself and kids safe.)

but allowing that option doesn’t have to include chapter seventeen in the epic saga of “I Believe, I Believe, I Believe You’ve Changed.” you can keep him home and not imagine he’s changed one iota.

you get to keep him home AND keep your integrity.

but you have to keep your sanity too. so long as he’s home, you expoect he’ll make himself useful. but you ***must *** turn in your Private Eye badge. it was making you crazy AND you weren’t that good at it. for every bust, he probably had a dozen skates, right? admit it. you just weren’t that forensic. you were making yourself crazy. so, whatever else he does/ who he calls/ what he does on internet (so long as the kids have ZERO access) is his business.

so long as he is useful around the house/ with bills etc.

(if he starts running you down to the kids, that’s not useful; that’s destructive. adios.)

if he wants intimacy? this, i think, is terrible advice:

If you are trying to save your marriage, I suggest reconsidering your decision about intimacy. You have every right to feel that way, but you are making it more difficult for your husband to do the right thing. If you can overcome your reluctance, perhaps you can seduce him to virtue.

i can answer this on the most practical levels and never even have to approach the spiritual/ sacramental/ emotional/ philosophical ramifications. and here’s it:

if it were me? no.

i have a responsibility to keep my body as healthy as i can (for my kids, if not for myself.)
i won’t have intercourse with the husband whose sexual behavior i can’t trust-- and whose body i can’t trust to be free of STdiseases. and i’m a practicing, obedient, happily assenting catholic, so condoms are not an option (I thank God.)

of course, you will be absolutely obligated to pray for his conversion and recovery, even if it is on his death bed. he is in mortal sin. if he dies with these sins unrepented, he will have willfully forefeited eternal life with God. pray for him and get your kids to pray for him, too. pray for your kids. increase your prayer life a hundredfold, in fact, because there’s real evil lurking in your home.

and then i will answer it specifically to the suggestion above: God intended sex to be a total self-giving opf two people in a sacramental bond for the purposes of unity and procreation. NOT for one partner to try to manipulate the other partner.

“seduce” him into doing the right thing? what a horrible use of sex. and what an unhealthy, codependant operative. it adds insult to the already devastating injury husband has weilded on the sexual relationship of the marriage. it adds insult to the already battered communication of the relationship.

only the husband’s free will, as inspired and strengthened by the grace of God through the Holy Spirit’s powerful action can change him.

corrine, pray God relieves you of anger. that way, you can see if your decision to withhold sexual relations is based on your belief in the goodness of marriage or if it’s grounded in retaliation.

avoid retaliation. it’s an easy means to the devil’s treacherous ends.

 

[Ailina]

I’m not saying that she is obliged to do this and I’m not saying that she is keeping her husband from doing the right thing. I’m saying that perhaps she could help her husband to do the right thing.

God was not obliged to send His Son to die for our sakes while we were sinners. But that is what God did. And that is our model for love.

Her husband is not equating sex with intimate connection. He is psychologically impaired.

I was married to a man who was similarly impaired; sex with his wife (me) was not what he wanted. He wanted variety of partners, not variety of positions.

 

[floresco]

Her husband is not equating sex with intimate connection. He is psychologically impaired.

I was married to a man who was similarly impaired; sex with his wife (me) was not what he wanted. He wanted variety of partners, not variety of positions.

Each of us, to some extent, projects our own experiences onto what Corinne has written and interprets it through that. None of us really knows what is wrong with her husband. It could be psychological impairment. It could be a mid-life crisis. We can share with her possibilities for her to consider and then she has to figure out what applies in her particular case. She needs to pray. We need to pray for her.

 

[monicatholic]

It could be a mid-life crisis.

subjectively, his behavior could be caused by anything.

objectively, his behavior is mortally sinful.

since corrine’s husband isn’t interested in finding and fixing any of the possible causes of the behavior, nor is he interested in changing the mortally sinful behaviors, corrine’s best bet is to respond sanely, prayerfully.

 

[floresco]

objectively, his behavior is mortally sinful.

since corrine’s husband isn’t interested in finding and fixing any of the possible causes of the behavior, nor is he interested in changing the mortally sinful behaviors, corrine’s best bet is to respond sanely, prayerfully.

I absolutely agree that, speaking objectively, we are talking about grave sin. I hope that nothing I wrote came across otherwise. I do not want to minimize the sinfulness of this behaviour. To betray and hurt one’s spouse like this is very very wrong. I make no excuses for it.

I do not agree that people who have read Corinne’s posts have enough information to know what her husband is or is not interested in. Maybe he does want to change. Changing sinful behaviours is very difficult. Every day I do sinful things that I do not want to do. And St. Paul talked about this too. Romans 7:14,15:

For we know that the law is spiritual; but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I work, I understand not. For I do not that good which I will; but the evil which I hate, that I do.

Corinne told us what her husband is doing but we don’t know what he is thinking. We know that what he is doing is a grave sin but that is all we know.

 

[Corinne3]

Thank you ALL so very much! I feel so much better, getting some specifics from you all, fellow Catholics.

Floresco: You haven’t understood my situation at all. Can you read this thread from the beginning? If you want to of course! I thank you for your advice, but my h and I have always been intimate, and had a great sex life. I am just saying now, after all the attempts to trust him again, and him proving himself untrustworthy still, I need to protect myself emotionally, until he shows me he is wanting to rebuild trust. This is how I feel. I just cannot be intimate with him right now. I am too angry and hurt. And marriage should be mutual love, and trust. Finding out 2 weeks ago, he still called the stripper…well, sorry I just cannot be intimate with him right now considering this. It will take a while. All the other times, when he betrayed me, contacting this woman, I still was intimate with him, trying to put on the “hot” even more so, buying sexy lingerie, perfume, etc., even more than I usually wear… It didn’t matter, he still retreated to this stripper, and I was left feeling empty, used, emotionally vulnerable, weak and like an idiot. I now have learned I have to protect myself emotionally. This is the only way I can heal, become stronger, and unite myself in prayer for our family, and for my husband. I am confident he did not have intercourse with her, but nude lap dances, fondling, endless calls and texts, is quite enough “adultery” for me. So, no I don’t worry about SDT’s. This is not an issue.

MonicaCatholic:

Thank you so much. YOU understand me! You are a God-send to me. I relish every word you say, it is wise, and exactly how I feel. I want to do the right thing in God’s eyes of course.

 

[tbcrawford]

God bless you Corinne xx I think you are very brave and I admire & respect you totally.

Memorare (Prayer to Our Lady)
Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to your protection, implored your help, or sought your intercession, was left unaided.
Inspired by this confidence, I fly unto you, O Virgin of virgins, my Mother. To you do I come, before you I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in your mercy, hear and answer me. Amen

 

[floresco]

Thank you ALL so very much! I feel so much better, getting some specifics from you all, fellow Catholics.

Floresco: You haven’t understood my situation at all. Can you read this thread from the beginning? If you want to of course!

I do want to, although I am about to go out now so it will have to wait until later in the day. I hope that nothing I wrote offended you.

In general, I avoid revealing any personal information in my posts. I made an exception for you and posted about something of which I am deeply ashamed in order to give you some hope for your marriage. It was difficult for me to do this, but it was important to me to offer this to you. So please believe that I am sincere and well-intentioned.

 

[Corinne3]

Dear Floresco:

No, nothing you said offended me at all. It’s just that my impression was that you think because I withheld sex from my h, or wasn’t fulfilling his needs, this is why he turned to strippers. That isn’t it at all. That’s all. I do thank you for your impression most surely.

I have heard of men complaining that their wives haven’t wanted sex for YEARS, and how difficult that is for men, (undoubtedly) so their husband strayed. This may be somewhat valid in those cases, BUT, still, if this was the case, I wouldn’t buy it. It’s still a spouses choice to be unfaithful regardless of the circumstances. But this isn’t our case at all, as I mentioned in my post above. I know it’s nothing to do with me at all, I’m attractive, hot, passionate and sexy, and loving, I was always boosting my h up, encouraging him, being the nice wife, always trusting ((again)), etc…he just has a sex addiction I think, well a “sin” addiction more like it, and has become trapped. He must know, as long as he’s retreating to strippers, in any way, shape or form, I will not be physically or emotionally present with him. Period. I just cannot. Self-protection I guess. It took me 2 years to learn this. This is how I feel, and it is right for me. Of course I am trying to still be nice, friendly, encouraging, pleasant, etc. and I try not to act rude, but put on the fruits of the Holy Spirit daily, gentleness, kindness, love, peace, self-control. It takes a lot of prayer sometimes. But I know I need to see he’s working to restore my trust, because it just isn’t there yet. How could it be, when less than a month ago, he called his favorite stripper??? Of course he said “it was a mistake”…well the phone doesn’t dial itself does it?

After 2 solid years of betrayal, I cannot go back to a place of vulnerability like I naturally always would. I am seeking work presently, so I can take care of myself and have options. It is so good to hear from everyone here. Again, I am so grateful.

MonicaCatholic: You are right about the private eye bit. I have stopped it, it serves no purpose except to wear me totally down emotionally…

Thank you so much for everyone’s imput. And Crawford, thx for the beautiful prayer----

I just want to be a good and faithful Catholic, and do the right thing, so God can say to me one day “well done good and faithful servant”. I love Jesus~