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grandfather
Guest
Do you believe that love is more powerful than death?
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Lapell
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In 1984, I attended Pentecostist services for about 7 months. On only one occasion the pastor said something against praying to the Rosary, or “to Jesus through Mary”, based on the fact that jesus is the only intercessor between God and mankind and on an interdiction to deal with the souls of the dead (in Leviticus, i think), even though that verse was about divination through spiritism! Only once… but it was enough to put doubt in me about praying the Rosary! A month or two later I left that Church for good. In the meantime I kept going to Mass. I was not quite 27 then… I later joined a Charismatic Renewal group, and on Sept. 21 I went to a conference.
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Alina
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Dear ckempston,
Of course if you believe that Our Lady is dead…
But I actually believe that she is alive, in Heaven, and that she hears me, just as she hears anybody who ask her for help.
God bless you,
Alina
Of course if you believe that Our Lady is dead…
But I actually believe that she is alive, in Heaven, and that she hears me, just as she hears anybody who ask her for help.
God bless you,
Alina
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Lapell
Guest
There the guest priest who was to teach us started by praying and guess what? He was praying to Mary! He was having a conversation with her!.. And I was shocked! (Yes, i had come to believe what the pastor said 3 months and a half earlier! Just like that! How come?) How dare he prayed to the Virgin mary? He should have gone directly to Jesus, rather… I’m telling you the truth!
And I got troubled, because that priest was looking so quiet and so… serene! So within myself I asked God: If it’s O.K. to pray to Mary, Lord, please show me. And the morning went until a pause where we could get a coffee, look at the books on display in the next room… and then I saw books on the apparitions of the Blessed Mary that have been happening for 3 years, apparently, in Yougoslavia (now it’s just Bosnia-Herzegovina), in a place called Medjugorje… I had read a little about Fatima, in a book for children. And somehow, I felt like a child again and wanted to know more about that one.Well, I recovered my devotion to the Virgin Mary, it became even more solid.
At home, when I was a kid, we used to pray the Rosary together, following it on the radio. Then, when I was 7 or 8, it wasn’t on the radio anymore, and we had stopped. When we prayed, i sensed togetherness and warmth, but then I didn’t feel as much togetherness, even though we still loved one another. But something was missing… Now I say the Rosary at home, alone, or while walking, and before Mass on weekdays… I can’t do without it! Mary is such a wonderful mother… not just to Jesus, but to us too!
And I got troubled, because that priest was looking so quiet and so… serene! So within myself I asked God: If it’s O.K. to pray to Mary, Lord, please show me. And the morning went until a pause where we could get a coffee, look at the books on display in the next room… and then I saw books on the apparitions of the Blessed Mary that have been happening for 3 years, apparently, in Yougoslavia (now it’s just Bosnia-Herzegovina), in a place called Medjugorje… I had read a little about Fatima, in a book for children. And somehow, I felt like a child again and wanted to know more about that one.Well, I recovered my devotion to the Virgin Mary, it became even more solid.
At home, when I was a kid, we used to pray the Rosary together, following it on the radio. Then, when I was 7 or 8, it wasn’t on the radio anymore, and we had stopped. When we prayed, i sensed togetherness and warmth, but then I didn’t feel as much togetherness, even though we still loved one another. But something was missing… Now I say the Rosary at home, alone, or while walking, and before Mass on weekdays… I can’t do without it! Mary is such a wonderful mother… not just to Jesus, but to us too!
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Lapell
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I do have a special relationship with her. But believe me, I don’t worship her… unless you automatically worship someone you love dearly?!?
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Lapell
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If you still say I worship Mary because i pray to her even if I don’t worship her, well I guess you just can’t look at the truth without prejudice… sorry! God bless you anyway!
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ckempston
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I suppose you’re trying to make some obscure point that if Love is more powerful than Death (questionable), then I must be able to talk to dead people.
The problem is, unless Mary is omniscient and omnipresent, she cannot hear millions of prayers at once.
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ckempston
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I’m sorry, Lapell, but I find this no more convincing than the Mormon burning in the bosom. Do not trust in apparitions or signs.
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ckempston
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Actually, I don’t equate prayer with worship. That seems pretty reasonable. Actually, I am not so opposed to intercession as I am to veneration. The only problem I have with intercession is that those in Heaven are still apparently experiencing time as evidenced by the pleas of the martyrs in Revelation (How long, Oh Lord), so I don’t really see how they could answer prayers, as God does, since he is omniscient/present/potent and they are not. While I object, I don’t completely discount that intercessory prayers to dead saints are possible.
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love4mary
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Give Mary a chance. Spend a month asking for Mary’s intercession,ask our dear Lord to show you the truth in who Mary actually is.
All through salvation history, God has come to us, His children Through others. The Prophets and the Apostles. God could have spoken to us directly, being God, He can do anything He wants. But He CHOSE to speak through others (as a general rule) to us. Why then, can we not, like God showed us, go through others to Him? We don’t, as has been said many times in this thread, need to go through anyone at all.
Another great gift that God has given us is the Saints. They followed God and lived their lives in accord to His teachings, though many started out doing just the opposite. We look up to them as great examples to follow.
God is Awesome and to Him alone do we Worship, but it makes no sense to ignore His friends.
All through salvation history, God has come to us, His children Through others. The Prophets and the Apostles. God could have spoken to us directly, being God, He can do anything He wants. But He CHOSE to speak through others (as a general rule) to us. Why then, can we not, like God showed us, go through others to Him? We don’t, as has been said many times in this thread, need to go through anyone at all.
Another great gift that God has given us is the Saints. They followed God and lived their lives in accord to His teachings, though many started out doing just the opposite. We look up to them as great examples to follow.
God is Awesome and to Him alone do we Worship, but it makes no sense to ignore His friends.
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FCEGM
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And so those who are now enjoying the Beatific Vision are no longer alive?! What a diminished understanding of Christ’s salvific work!
We enjoy Communion with one another - including “our brothers and sisters who have gone before us marked with the sign of faith” - because of our Communion with THE Communion of the Divine Persons of the Most Holy Trinity. Being in Christ we are in union with all that is His - including His Mother. So in the Beatific Vision Christ, within Whom the Blessed are MORE, not less, in union, shows the Blessed the petitions of the brethren on earth, as in God all things are seen, since God is All in all. This is not difficult for God to do. Indeed, a Christianity that does not admit of this intimate communion among members of the one body is very two-dimensional.
Further, if they Saints who are now fully incorporated into Christ in the Beatific Vision cannot intercede for those of us who yet walk by faith then Christ has no power; for what power they (and we) have is HIS power in which they participate by virtue of their incorporation into His Body; they, if counted among the blessed, will not be allowed, then, “to share my throne,” Rev. 4:21. Then, St. Stephen, “filled with grace and power” withstanding the Sanhedrin, was divested of that power upon his martyrdom; then St. Peter and St. Paul, who cured people of their spiritual blindness and physical illnesses by virtue of the power of the Lord, lost that power upon their martyrdoms.
It is a very small Jesus that doesn’t permit incorporating Mary into one’s life as a Christian; the greater Jesus is in one’s understanding, the greater the room for meeting His Mother and His Friends in His Presence.
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DixiesFinest
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PS-the local Bishop declared the apparitions false.
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grandfather
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This is true. Mary is not God. Nevertheless she can hear requests for her intercession, just like you can. How many can she hear? I don’t know. However many God allows her to hear.
You did not give an answer to the question, which you are free to not do, but if you do not mind, do you believe love is more powerful than death? The question has nothing to do with Mary.
Do you believe the saints in heaven are dead, or are they alive in Christ?
If your loved ones die do you stop loviing them?
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ckempston
Guest
Hardly. Do you become omniscient when you behold God in heaven? Can you hear the prayers of Saints? That’s the question at hand, and you, sir, are begging that question.
Sure we’re in union. Doesn’t mean Mary can hear millions of prayers at once. She’s not omni-anything.
When Perfection comes, the imperfect (miracles) will pass away. I have no problem with Apostles losing their powers to heal or perform miracles and neither should you.Further, if they Saints who are now fully incorporated into Christ in the Beatific Vision cannot intercede for those of us who yet walk by faith then Christ has no power; for what power they (and we) have is HIS power in which they participate by virtue of their incorporation into His Body; they, if counted among the blessed, will not be allowed, then, “to share my throne,” Rev. 4:21. Then, St. Stephen, “filled with grace and power” withstanding the Sanhedrin, was divested of that power upon his martyrdom; then St. Peter and St. Paul, who cured people of their spiritual blindness and physical illnesses by virtue of the power of the Lord, lost that power upon their martyrdoms.
My Jesus can do everything with noone else’s help. Who is worshiping the small Jesus?
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grandfather
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You are really on to something here. It leads us to a mystery, something we can not understand. How can a soul leave this place whre time exists and go into enternity where there is still time? In order for there to be time there has to be change. Something was this way and now it is that way. That means being in time. Anticipating change that will come also means being in time. Yet scripture says those who are not here with us as evidenced by the martyrs pleas experience time. In fact the plea of the martyrs indicates they are not perfectly happy or fulfilled, that they are waiting for something.
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grandfather
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ChristianKnight
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So, because I do not understand why someone has to eat bread and drink wine to get christ to come to them, I think jesus is a liar?OK, now you have just
Unless, of course, you have one of thesenew-fangled Bibles with
removeable parts, I suggest that you need to go read the 6th chapter of John’s Gospel.
:tsktsk:Shame on you, for insulting the Saviour of the world, by calling Him “crazy”!!!
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grandfather
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No, because you do not believe you have to eat His body and drink His blood to have life within you, as He plainly taught, you think Jesus is a liar.
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ckempston
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