Help re: transgender family member

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She’s asked my daughter (almost three) to call her auntie and we just went with it as my daughter is too young to understand…but how will I explain this when she’s older?
Just because your daughter is too young to understand does not mean you need to set the good example right away. You can’t not let a child call someone ‘aunt’ and then when they are use to it tell them ‘Now that you understand what it means, you must call him uncle’

The time to set the precedent is NOW. So, IMO you should tell your this person 'I do not judge you and hope you do not judge me. As a Catholic, I need to teach my daughter it is a sin to switch genders and I want her to call you uncle.

After all, respect works both ways. I have yet to see a transgender post ‘How do I respect Catholics’

Angie
 
If your relative went behind your back and told your three year old to call him aunt, I would tell your three year old he was playing pretend that day. The relative would not be seeing my child or children much anymore.
 
Excellent post.

A person can’t change genders, though it is hard to believe that from what the culture is throwing at us these days. When a child calls their uncle “aunt” they are entering into their pretend world. They can wear dresses, change their name and even take medicine but they are still men.

People suffering from gender dysphoria need our compassion and love. Clearly this is a heavy cross and not something to be made fun of or taken lightly, I just would not permit my young child to be taken up in this charade, and it is a charade, because then to the young child, it would appear to be a legitimate life decision and not disordered. Older children and teens can perhaps better understand, but at age three unfortunately not.
We know how they’d treat someone with racial dysphoria. They wouldn’t just tell them they could not change what they are. They’d say that accommodating racial self-hatred as if it represented the truth serves no positive purpose. If someone suffers from gender self-hatred, though, it is a differnt case. Someone is not being treated fairly.
 
Many families refer to aunts and uncles by simply using the person’s name alone without naming the relationship title.
This! I call all of my aunts and uncles by their first name, but it could also cause confusion with what this person goes by…because someone born Andrew might go by Andrea in this situation.
 
This! I call all of my aunts and uncles by their first name, but it could also cause confusion with what this person goes by…because someone born Andrew might go by Andrea in this situation.
That’s true. This auntie has probably adopted a female name. It might be kind of a challenge for those people who think that this auntie should be addressed with a male name and a male pronoun (he). Not calling them anything won’t be easy. I guess they could be called, “Hey, you”. 😉
 
That’s true. This auntie has probably adopted a female name. It might be kind of a challenge for those people who think that this auntie should be addressed with a male name and a male pronoun (he). Not calling them anything won’t be easy. I guess they could be called, “Hey, you”. 😉
If it were my child, they wouldn’t be seeing this person much. Until they were grown up enough to understand this issue. The propaganda itself is enough. What would a child tell their peers? The feedback would be negative propaganda. I understand this is a real issue but why does someone want to pretend. When they look in the mirror, they see the truth. I guess you have to be that way to understand.
 
If it were my child, they wouldn’t be seeing this person much. Until they were grown up enough to understand this issue. The propaganda itself is enough. What would a child tell their peers? The feedback would be negative propaganda
What about family gatherings during Thanksgiving or other holidays? Will this Transgender family member be told that they aren’t welcome?

If this family member looks female, wouldn’t it also confuse a child if everyone called her “Bill” or “Joe” while everyone’s sitting down for Thanksgiving dinner?
 
What about family gatherings during Thanksgiving or other holidays? Will this Transgender family member be told that they aren’t welcome?
I wouldn’t be going to gatherings for a few years. Or the person could respect the child’s situation.
 
That’s true. This auntie has probably adopted a female name. It might be kind of a challenge for those people who think that this auntie should be addressed with a male name and a male pronoun (he). Not calling them anything won’t be easy. I guess they could be called, “Hey, you”. 😉
If your uncle thought he was a chicken, the family might decide to humor him. They would not teach their children he actually was a chicken, but they might admit that he is very stubborn in his confusion and in order to not upset him the family lets him go ahead and cluck. It could happen. The problem here is that the family is undoubtedly going to be divided on how to handle this problem.

On one hand, it is important not to let the politics surrounding this form of confusion to obscure the truth, but on the other it is also important to not let the politics obscure the boundaries of kindness. People struck with this kind of confusion get beaten up, they have a very high incidence of suicide no matter what medical science does for them… they’re in a bad way, and few people dispute that. They’re also encouraged in this particular confusion by a political machine that absolutely denies the truth that gender is not a social construct or something that only definitively exists in a person’s self-identification. In spite of popular thought, people can be confused or mistaken about their gender.

As St. Pope John Paul II put it, “Do not accept anything as the truth if it lacks love. And do not accept anything as love which lacks truth! One without the other becomes a destructive lie.” That’s a very difficult line to follow. We all fail once in awhile, but we have to try to do our best.
 
This! I call all of my aunts and uncles by their first name, but it could also cause confusion with what this person goes by…because someone born Andrew might go by Andrea in this situation.
Many traditional names have male and female counterparts which may share similar nicknames. Samantha and Samual can both be nicknamed, “Sam”. Andrew and Andrea might both be called, “And”. Or even just “A”.Some people just go by initials. I don’t know what the op’s family member wants to be called, but it’s not uncommon for families and friends to come up with creative variations on a name.
 
I have a hard time believing the “auntie” is innocently oblivious to the predicament he is creating. That is, a fair-minded person would think “I know what I’ve done is highly controversial. Maybe I shouldn’t put everyone around me on the spot.” It sounds like there is a chaotic family dynamic and “auntie” has discovered a convenient nuclear weapon. The solution to nukes? Get far out of the blast zone.

It sounds like real-life trolling to me.
 
I have a hard time believing the “auntie” is innocently oblivious to the predicament he is creating. That is, a fair-minded person would think “I know what I’ve done is highly controversial. Maybe I shouldn’t put everyone around me on the spot.” It sounds like there is a chaotic family dynamic and “auntie” has discovered a convenient nuclear weapon. The solution to nukes? Get far out of the blast zone.

It sounds like real-life trolling to me.
I’m sure that gay people, especially those who have partners or spouses, also create a predicament for families who disapprove. So should all LGBT people just stay away from their families so that there is no inconvenience for anyone except for the LGBT people themselves?
 
I’m sure that gay people, especially those who have partners or spouses, also create a predicament for families who disapprove. So should all LGBT people just stay away from their families so that there is no inconvenience for anyone except for the LGBT people themselves?
If they insist everyone around them affirm them in their lies, then yes. Affirming lies isn’t just a matter of inconvenience, it is destructive to the conscience and the soul.
 
If your uncle thought he was a chicken, the family might decide to humor him. They would not teach their children he actually was a chicken, but they might admit that he is very stubborn in his confusion and in order to not upset him the family lets him go ahead and cluck. It could happen. The problem here is that the family is undoubtedly going to be divided on how to handle this problem.

On one hand, it is important not to let the politics surrounding this form of confusion to obscure the truth, but on the other it is also important to not let the politics obscure the boundaries of kindness. People struck with this kind of confusion get beaten up, they have a very high incidence of suicide no matter what medical science does for them… they’re in a bad way, and few people dispute that. They’re also encouraged in this particular confusion by a political machine that absolutely denies the truth that gender is not a social construct or something that only definitively exists in a person’s self-identification. In spite of popular thought, people can be confused or mistaken about their gender.

As St. Pope John Paul II put it, “Do not accept anything as the truth if it lacks love. And do not accept anything as love which lacks truth! One without the other becomes a destructive lie.” That’s a very difficult line to follow. We all fail once in awhile, but we have to try to do our best.
Transgender people whose families accept them fare far better, HRT and SRS can also do quite a bit for the person’s psychological welfare.
Suicidal ideation and actual attempts reduced after transition, with 63% thinking
about or attempting suicide more before they transitioned and only 3% thinking
about or attempting suicide more post-transition. 7% found that this increased during
transition, which has implications for the support provided to those undergoing these
processes.
source, page 89
Yes, that’s difference of over 95%.
 
Transgender people whose families accept them fare far better, HRT and SRS can also do quite a bit for the person’s psychological welfare.

source, page 89
Yes, that’s difference of over 95%.
I’ve heard 3-4 different places now with vastly different figures for suicide rates. The raw numbers are what counts and what you need to see. And you need a placebo or control group.
 
I’ve heard 3-4 different places now with vastly different figures for suicide rates. The raw numbers are what counts and what you need to see. And you need a placebo or control group.
The oft quoted 19 times has a major caveat of only actually applying to people who has SRS before 1989, nearly 30 years ago, versus the general population, the study also found no significance for those who had surgery after 1989.

Given the huge benefits from transitioning that have already been documented to obtain said control group would be impossible on the groups of basic medical ethics.
 
Transgender people whose families accept them fare far better, HRT and SRS can also do quite a bit for the person’s psychological welfare.
…Given the huge benefits from transitioning that have already been documented…
The problem is that it is not OK to use an immoral means to achieve a desired end, even when it is meant to do someone else a kindness. Everyone wants their family member to be happy with themselves, but there is a limit to what can be asked. It is not moral to teach children (or anyone else) that is possible for a physician to change someone’s physical gender by changing their external appearance. White lies are not even moral, we may not morally teach our children to tell them, but this goes way beyond a white lie.

If mothers were less likely to commit suicide if they had access to abortion, for instance, that wouldn’t make abortion a morally-permissible means of achieving maternal mental health. You don’t kill someone in order to give someone else a life that is easier to manage, even if the person who “benefits” could live with that bargain. You cannot morally treat mental illness by lying to people who are capable of understanding the difference between reality and fantasy. I’m not yet willing to believe that people who have this affliction ought to be written off as incapable of accepting the reality of their actual gender.

We are talking about irreversible mutilations and hormonal intervention meant to facilitate living under objectively false pretenses because it is too painful to accept reality. I don’t want to minimize the pain of gender dysphoria but when this form of self-hatred is “treated” by what is called transitioning, it is actually a pseudo-suicide of the persona who has the hated gender and replacement of that persona with an invented persona that feels more comfortable. The treatment is based on a lie. I do not see how that is morally acceptable when the patient is capable of understanding the difference between fantasy and reality.

For instance, let us say that we are dealing with someone who has dementia, such that the person is incapable of remembering their spouse has died, their parents have died, all their siblings have died. It is cruel to keep telling this person that everyone they want to see is dead! They are incapable of remembering it, and so they suffer the shock of hearing this news every time. If they are so far gone that they cannot tell reality from a dream state and can’t remember what is said to them from one moment to the next, they have gotten past the point of deceiving or being deceived. If they have a better grip on reality than that, however, it is not moral to lie to them in order to make them more manageable. Avoiding a cruel truth is OK; telling lies is not.

This situation is also a bit different than when your uncle Bob decides to flout moral law, abandon his valid marriage to Aunt Sally, go through a civil marriage with someone new named Sue (or John), and wants your children to call the spouse the government recognizes in a marriage you do not recognize as possible as Aunt Sue (or Uncle John). It is not as if Bob is going to go back to his wife Sally because you refuse to have anything to do with Sue or John. Sue or John may be under the misguided impression that their marriage is as valid as anyone else’s. You can be kind to Sue, (or John) and even Bob without trangressing moral law. What you may not do is recognize their civil marriage as valid.

I think if your brother, your child’s Uncle Nick, decides he wants everyone to call him Nicole, then it is OK to address him as Nicole. We allow adults to choose the names they go by, let him choose it. We give that to anyone out on the street.

You can even accept that his deep-seated unease at being a male may be something he cannot change and that how, when and if he comes to accept that he is male is his own business. If he is not in need of commitment, his mental health certainly isn’t your business to treat! It does not harm children to learn to MYOB about how their relatives handle their health care, including mental health care, and how they handle their moral choices. They can learn to keep their mouth shut and treat someone the same even when that someone uses make-up or clothing that doesn’t suit them or when they use affectations to be someone they are not. IMHO, they’ll do better if they MYOB on those things, including in this case.

I do not think that means you need to agree or teach your children that Nick has managed the impossible feat of becoming a woman. You are not morally bound by kindness to teach your children to call him Aunt Nicole. If he doesn’t like Uncle Nicole then teach your children not to offend him by calling him that. Call him Nicole, tell him “I think you’re confused, I’m not alone in that, but I also know you didn’t ask me. Your life is yours to run; my validation is mine to give or not as I honestly see the situation. We’re going to do the best if we each stay on our own side of our own boundary and, as much as possible, mind our own business. We can do that. I think you’re my children’s Uncle Nick, you think you are Aunt Nicole…we’ll split the difference and they can call you Nicole simply because that is the name you want and leave out the Aunt/Uncle thing because we very clearly do not agree on that.” That is how you might treat Sue or John, after all.

Your brother Nick who believes he is a Nicole and a she may not cope very well with that. This is worth some heart-to-heart communication, but when an adult sibling won’t accept the reality that is their lot in life, it is necessary to let that be your sibling’s business and not yours. If you are lucky, they will return the favor.
 
By the way, when I talk about accepting one’s gender as part of accepting the truth of one’s identity, I am** not *saying that there is a moral requirement to conform to every fashionable gender stereotype or that family or friends have any business butting in and arguing with those of us who aren’t as comfortable with the stereotypes of their gender as some others are. If someone wants to say that they accept their gender but do not accept arbitrary boundaries that other people put onto their gender, that is something else again. That is not a lie; if anything, it is challenging a lie. If there was a time and place when Marie was a perfectly acceptable name for a man, it is hardly possible that it is immoral for a man to change his name from Max to Marie, provided he is not using the name change to hide *his identity as a male.
 
“Fare far better” where exactly? Is this all about how we feel on earth, or are we supposed to keep in mind there is such a thing as sin and what the ultimate goal is? Why would we encourage someone to mutilate their genitals? If someone feels these feelings they need compassion and help certainly but not encouragement to live a lie.

Going along with someone’s charade pretending they are a man or a woman is not helping them “fare better” in my opinion. The magazine cited is a Scottish pro-Transexual magazine. Which is akin to reading in a planned parenthood magazine how great abortion is.
Not dead by suicide is an objective measure of faring far better.

They did a survey of transgender people, did you expect it to be by GE or Ford?
The problem is that it is not OK to use an immoral means to achieve a desired end, even when it is meant to do someone else a kindness. Everyone wants their family member to be happy with themselves, but there is a limit to what can be asked. It is not moral to teach children (or anyone else) that is possible for a physician to change someone’s physical gender by changing their external appearance. White lies are not even moral, we may not morally teach our children to tell them, but this goes way beyond a white lie.

If mothers were less likely to commit suicide if they had access to abortion, for instance, that wouldn’t make abortion a morally-permissible means of achieving maternal mental health. You don’t kill someone in order to give someone else a life that is easier to manage, even if the person who “benefits” could live with that bargain. You cannot morally treat mental illness by lying to people who are capable of understanding the difference between reality and fantasy. I’m not yet willing to believe that people who have this affliction ought to be written off as incapable of accepting the reality of their actual gender.

So just to get this straight you are comparing drastically reducing the chance of someone committing suicide with murder? Did you know “man up you goddamn pansy or kill yourself you pathetic waste of life” doesn’t work as a pep talk? Sometimes it is best to accept people as they are instead of pushing them off a cliff.

I have personally seen what this line of embracing the truth in gender stuff you go on about does to people and do you know what it results in? Dead people. It is bitterly ironic how “accepting one’s gender as part of accepting the truth of one’s identity” results in people killing themselves because they “can’t live a lie anymore”. I know it doesn’t work when people commit suicide because they genuinely believe their family would be better off without them, because they don’t want to be a burden on their family.
 
So just to get this straight you are comparing drastically reducing the chance of someone committing suicide with murder? Did you know “man up you goddamn pansy or kill yourself you pathetic waste of life” doesn’t work as a pep talk? Sometimes it is best to accept people as they are instead of pushing them off a cliff.
There are a lot of people who wouldn’t respond to a poster who accused them of saying such a repulsive and outrageous thing as you just accused me of saying. How is someone with this problem supposed to feel, reading that? This is your idea of supporting people, telling them that anyone who doesn’t believe it is possible for a man to become a woman or vice versa really despises them and hopes they kill themselves? You’re telling them that someone who only accepts that they are painfully confused about their gender but does not accept the idea they are really a gender that in reality they can never be does not accept them and therefore gives them a reason to kill themselves, as surely as if they were pushing them over a cliff?!? You ought to be ashamed of yourself!!
I have personally seen what this line of embracing the truth in gender stuff you go on about does to people and do you know what it results in? Dead people. It is bitterly ironic how “accepting one’s gender as part of accepting the truth of one’s identity” results in people killing themselves because they “can’t live a lie anymore”. I know it doesn’t work when people commit suicide because they genuinely believe their family would be better off without them, because they don’t want to be a burden on their family.
You are saying the end justifies the means, then? If someone can’t accept an aspect of who they are, then lie to them and tell them you can make them into someone else they’d rather be, and then they won’t commit suicide?

What about people who have body dysmorphic disorder? If you send them to a plastic surgeon to have their faces remade, does that fix their crippling anxiety about their appearance? No, it doesn’t. Why? *Because their problem wasn’t that they were ugly! *Their problem is that they are obsessed with the idea that they are ugly. Lying to them does not solve their problem. Giving in to the idea that they are right about their looks and everyone else is wrong doesn’t solve the problem.

I agree that others ought to go to great lengths to avoid shunning or practicing discimination against someone suffering from this kind of confusion about their gender. There is no excuse for demeaning someone for suffering from this kind of issue.

I cannot agree that supporting the pretense that someone’s gender can be changed is a moral choice. Objectively speaking, it is a lie. I can totally believe that they believe what they believe, but a person’s self-concept about their identity is not infallible or even immutable. More to the point, complicity with a false pretense does not solve the problem. Even after the experiment of transitioning, the suicide rate among these unfortunate people is still through the roof.
 
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