Hindus Worship at Fatima Altar

  • Thread starter Thread starter DominvsVobiscvm
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Say for nine consecutive mornings for anything you may desire. It has seldom been known to fail.
Click to expand...
This is the rankest of superstitions. I hope you’ve repented of it.
Shortly after, thanks to the intercession of Our Lady and St. Joseph, what had been impossible, became possible, and finally a reality.
Click to expand...
  1. God can work through schismatic priests.
  2. Even the devil can work wonders.
 
BTW, Father Gruner is heretical, perhaps even apostate, if, as my impression is, he claims that the Fatima Revelations are binding on the Church’s faithful and make up the deposit of faith.
 
Domini Canis:
Mare said,

That’s unfortunate. I pray that Fr. Gruner’s situation with the Church gets corrected; but my original point still stands: that this priest was never disciplined for anything he has said regarding the Fatima message. Rather, it was his refusal to go back to his diocese when he was ordered to.

The issue here is that Fatima is undergoing an ecumenical venture (like the building of the new shrine) and allowing certain Hindus to pray to their false gods within one of the church’s holy shrines dedicated to our Lady. So forgive me and others for feeling a little bit concerned and apprehensive about this.

For the sake of the argument; if Fatima indeed does go down this road where pagans and inter-faith practices are to be held there, how many of you would agree or defend it?

Miguel.
Click to expand...
I would defend Fatima the message but not the building. I would sincerely pray that in the middle of the night when no one was in the building, it would be struck by and earth quake and become rubble. The building of course, not Fatima itself nor the movement for peace of Our Lady of Fatima. I might pray though that Gruner would be close enough to get smacked by a brick and grow some morals and obedience though. Just a hard enough smack to help him repent mind you, not injure him. 🙂
 
DV, what!?

Pray tell, exactly what heresy or apostasy does Fr. Gruner fall into? :confused:

Even the Church hasn’t made that judgment on this priest; and neither should you.

Miguel.
 
40.png
DominvsVobiscvm:
BTW, Father Gruner is heretical, perhaps even apostate, if, as my impression is, he claims that the Fatima Revelations are binding on the Church’s faithful and make up the deposit of faith.
Click to expand...
Pretty much what our Bishop said DV. Gruner is not clicking on all 4 cylanders IMNSHO. He needs prayer and he needed the sanctions placed to stop him.
 
Mare, I respectfully disagree with you and your concern for your soul’s welfare and obedience to higher authority is admirable. 🙂

I do believe though, that there are far worse priests out there, running about preaching heresy that should be disciplined. And let’s hope that they to get smacked by a brick and grow some morals and a sense of obedience. 😃

Miguel.
 
Domini Canis:
Mare, I respectfully disagree with you and your concern for your soul’s welfare and obedience to higher authority is admirable. 🙂

I do believe though, that there are far worse priests out there, running about preaching heresy that should be disciplined. And let’s hope that they to get smacked by a brick and grow some morals and a sense of obedience. 😃

Miguel.
Click to expand...
Good idea! Maybe we can gather the people who are lay Catholic’s and are disobedient too. Surely the building would have enough bricks to go around. Gruner though is not a little heretic in my opinion. He is an agent of Satan and has had the audacity to claim Sr Lucia is wrong. Good grief! How dumb can people be to fall for that one?

Sr Lucia has refuted his lies and he calls her mistaken, among his other twist’s of the truth. Now I must say, if Sr Lucia is mistaken about Fatima and she is the only living witness then we may as well trash Fatima as untrue from the beginning.

It does not take a theologian to know Sr Lucia stood up to the very threat of death as a child to defend the secret. She is hardly going to be swayed by threats now. Gruner, is the devils agent…for only the Devil would disavow the word of the actual Seer and claim she is mistaken or has been forced to say so by the Vatican.
 
40.png
Marie:
Good idea! Maybe we can gather the people who are lay Catholic’s and are disobedient too. Surely the building would have enough bricks to go around. Gruner though is not a little heretic in my opinion. He is an agent of Satan and has had the audacity to claim Sr Lucia is wrong. Good grief! How dumb can people be to fall for that one?

Sr Lucia has refuted his lies and he calls her mistaken, among his other twist’s of the truth. Now I must say, if Sr Lucia is mistaken about Fatima and she is the only living witness then we may as well trash Fatima as untrue from the beginning.

It does not take a theologian to know Sr Lucia stood up to the very threat of death as a child to defend the secret. She is hardly going to be swayed by threats now. Gruner, is the devils agent…for only the Devil would disavow the word of the actual Seer and claim she is mistaken or has been forced to say so by the Vatican.
Click to expand...
Devil’s agent? Take care that your zeal against this priest doesn’t turn into slander.

It’s my understanding that Fr. Gruner doesn’t claim that Sr. Lucia is mistaken (and even if he did, how would that make him the “devil’s agent”? After all, receivers of private revelations can be mistaken, can’t they?), rather he claims that false interviews and statements attributed to her have circulated.

Sr. Lucia is a brave one in standing up to those who threatened her with death if she would not tell the message our Lady gave. But she has not been permitted to speak publicly on this matter without the permission of our Holy Father or Cardinal Ratzinger since the 60’s. And the so called interviews and statements circulating about have been found to be dubious in origin or false.

Miguel.
 
Domini Canis:
Devil’s agent? Take care that your zeal against this priest doesn’t turn into slander.Miguel.
Click to expand...
As Fr Gruner was interviewed on our local radio this week prior to this weekends event and I am not deaf, I know exactly what he said. Take care you do not defend the devil.
 
40.png
DominvsVobiscvm:
BTW, Father Gruner is heretical, perhaps even apostate, if, as my impression is, he claims that the Fatima Revelations are binding on the Church’s faithful and make up the deposit of faith.
Click to expand...
Father Gruner is not a heretic, and he has never taught anything that is contrary to the teacher of the Church. His unlawful suppension was for not obeying a an instruction that he had no way of obeying.

You can say all you want about Fr. Gruner, but the fact remains that sacrilege is going on at Fatima Shrine.
 
Mare,

Since I haven’t heard that particular interview, I can’t say. I have seen and listened to some of his programs though; and know of nothing that would make me believe he was “the devil’s agent” or heretical…His main message is about Fatima and its relation to the current crisis in the world and in the Church.

Exactly what did he say in the interview that made you go so far as to say he was the devil’s agent?

Miguel.
 
This is an authorized prayer of our Church and I have nothing repent for using it.
Click to expand...
My apologies. I missread the sentence saying to pray this payer for nine days, and it won’t fail. At first reading, it read like one of those chain letters!
 
And yes, Father Gruner does contradict Sister Lucia. He claims that Russia has not been consecrated to the Immaculate Heart (it was, in 1984), and that the Third Secret has not been revealed.

As to the veracity of this news report about Hindus at Fatima, the article above quotes eye-witness testimony to the sacrilege.
 
40.png
DominvsVobiscvm:
He claims that the Fatima Revelations are not private, and are binding upon the Church. See Fatima.Org.
Click to expand...
As I was thinking of what answer you might possibly give (since he hardly say’s anything that could be ranked as heresy) I thought you might bring that one up.

Fr. Gruner, in explaining this topic has been explicit about public revelation ending with the last apostles. His terming of Fatima as “public” revelation might not be the best and most accurate way of describing the message but I do believe he has a point.

The message was addressed to the entire world and the request our Lady made was to all the bishops and the Pope’s; and our Lady predicted serious consequences for non-compliance. In that sense it might be termed “public”.

Fatima might not pose an obligation on the Church like an ex-cathedra statement would; but are we not bound to do God’s will or suffer the consequences? And can’t God’s will be shown to us through a private revelation? The answer to all of those-- as you would probably agree-- is a yes. Our Lady appeared at Fatima and gave a request to the bishops and the Church (the consecration of Russia); and she also gave the consequences for not following her request.

Looking at it from that point of view, I still fail to see anything he said as heretical or rank apostasy. Maybe you should be careful, next time you accuse people of crimes that even the Church has not found her member guilty of?

Miguel.
 
Private revelations, if they be from God, are binding, but only upon the individuals who receive them.

That having ben said, Sister Lucia insists that the requests of Our Lady have bee satisfied.

Who are we to trust: some renegade, suspended priest, or the Fatima seer herself and the Holy Father, Vicar of Jesus Christ?

Am I to believe that Gruner’s apostolate is from God? In light of the above, I think not!
 
40.png
DominvsVobiscvm:
Private revelations, if they be from God, are binding, but only upon the individuals who receive them.

That having ben said, Sister Lucia insists that the requests of Our Lady have bee satisfied.

Who are we to trust: some renegade, suspended priest, or the Fatima seer herself and the Holy Father, Vicar of Jesus Christ?

Am I to believe that Gruner’s apostolate is from God? In light of the above, I think not!
Click to expand...
We are bond to do the Will of God, and no ex-cathedra statement of direct revelation is required to fulfill that obligation.

Whatever Sr. Lucia has now said, she has made it clear in the past about the terms of our Lady in order to fulfill the requirements of the consecration. It wasn’t until recently that she supposedly changed her mind.

As to who you are suppose to believe; well, do the research; check out what Sr. Lucia said in the past and what she supposedly now say’s.

Fatima, not being a public revelation in the sense that you are a heretic if you deny it, can be examined a little critically. And if you read that site you will find a few anomalies to some statements supposedly attributed to Sr. Lucia.

Miguel.
 
I think I’ll sitck with the Pope of Rome and the Fatima Seer on this one.

Even if Father Gruner was right, he’s have no right to launch a public crusade against the Church; if nothing else, for the scandal it causes among the faithful.

s an oldest son, now an adult, I can relate to this. Even when I know my parents are wrong, I’ll never contradict them in front of my younger siblings for fear of causing scandal, i.e. them doubting my parents’ wisdom and authority.

If I, in my post-peubecent arrogance, can at least theoretically comperehend this principle, how much more should a priest of the Church?
 
40.png
DominvsVobiscvm:
I think I’ll sitck with the Pope of Rome and the Fatima Seer on this one.
Click to expand...
So will I; as soon as this thing gets clarified from Rome and the actual seer.

I believe you misunderstand the purpose of his apostolate which works to spread the Fatima message and devotion to our Lady; not to go against the Church.

As I said before; he was suspended because he did not return to his diocese (an order he could not do or else he would get deported) not because of anything he has said about Fatima.

Fr. Gruner might not be taking the best approach to his suspension (and I believe he is not taking the best approach. Celebrating Mass at an SSPX, using his priestly faculties et al…isn’t the right approach in my opinion) and he might be offending a lot of people in the Church. But he has tried to appeal to Rome about his case and state why he could not comply with the order (he’s in a very odd situation and we should pray that he gets back on good terms with Rome).

As for the principle you brought up; I myself am the oldest son and if my parents are wrong on something (especially when it comes to matters of consequence to my life and my soul) I would not hesitate to correct them in a respectful manner even in front of my siblings.

In this area, Fr. Gruner might be misguided. But about Fatima, I don’t believe he is.

Miguel.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top