Hindus Worship at Fatima Altar

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Private revelation? 70,000 people witnessed the Miracle of the Sun. Every Pope since has called it believable.
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Yes, it’s private revelation, declared by the Church to be “worthy of belief,” but not required. To say so otherwise is heresy; in fact, it’s a form of Modernism.
Now if 1984 consecration was valid answer these questions:
  1. Why has Russia still not been converted? I know what you will say that the Soviet Union fell apart, but this is not conversion.
  2. Why is the Church still persecuted by the Russian Government?
  3. Why is Russia in such a horrible state?
  4. Why is the world in such a dangerous state?
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Our Lady did not say the conversion would be instantaneous. The collapse of the Soivet Union, shortly after the consecration of 1984, was the start of the conversion. Be patient. For God, 1000 years are but a day.
  1. Sr. Lucia is 97 years old, why has Our Lord not brought Sr. Lucia to Heaven?
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This is not traditional Catholic thinking at all, but the rankest materialism. *How many souls is Sister Lucia bringing to heaven * by her life of prayer, sacrifice, poverty, chastity, and obedience?!?!?!?!? This has got to be the most ludicrous objection I’ve ever heard. I’d expect it from a Modernist, not a fellow traditionalist!
 
Domini Canis:
Good. That’s clear…He was not suspended for his teachings on Fatima or heresy.

Mare, agreed? 😉

Miguel.
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Why do you think he was sumoned by his bishop in the first place?
 
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DominvsVobiscvm:
Why do you think he was sumoned by his bishop in the first place?
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I don’t know. He was told by the Vatican to find another bishop to incardinate him (is that the canonical term?) and he actually found three.

So far the Vatican or his bishop haven’t made any formal statements about his teachings being heretical. They might disagree; but then again, if Fatima doesn’t need to be believed in the first place then taking a different position on Fatima then the bishops is certainly not heretical.

Miguel.
 
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EUSTACHIUS:
Private revelation? 70,000 people witnessed the Miracle of the Sun. Every Pope since has called it believable.
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We know that…but still the church does say we do not have to believe private revelations. All has been said and all is contained in the Scriptures for our salvation. It’s probably another subject thread we could start, but I appreciate your conviction.
You all forget, Our Lady asked for two things; “To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of Reparation on the First Saturdays. If My requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace;” Our Lady also promised Sr. Lucia that she would be taken to Heaven, but she first had work to do.
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Yes I know all that and I believe in Fatima for the record in case I may not have made that clear.
Now if 1984 consecration was valid answer these questions:
  1. Why has Russia still not been converted? I know what you will say that the Soviet Union fell apart, but this is not conversion.
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Our Lady did say the consecration would not be done until it was all most too late…Russia would spread her errors through out the world. The consecration was done. It was almost too late…errors have spread. The rest is conjecture. She did NOT exactly give us the full blueprint so if you expect an instant turn around I believe you are wrong…sincere but wrong.
  1. Sr. Lucia is 97 years old, why has Our Lord not brought Sr. Lucia to Heaven?
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Because He doesn’t want to…No conspiracy there. When God wants to call Sister Lucia home he will. End of story. My first Bishop was 103 when he died a couple of years ago. I see no relevance in her being 97 and still alive. That is not that unusual.
Again, I encourage you all to perform the Communion of Reparation, the First Five Saturday Devotion. No matter what the state of the Consecration, we still have to do our part!
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Thanks you for your encouragement. I have been doing them since around 1952 I believe, at least that’s the first Fatima Prayer Book I have in my collection and I am still doing them. I think I am adequately doing my part. The book is falling apart and so am I but I keep trying. 🙂
Pax,
Marie
 
I don’t know. He was told by the Vatican to find another bishop to incardinate him (is that the canonical term?) and he actually found three.
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Documentation, please? If this were the case, he could have gone through the proper channels to get it done. Apparently, hedidn’t. Or he wouldn’t be suspended.
 
Yep, bogus story, no such thing happening. This is just one of many sites claiming this…
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Can you prove this? The article at least seems to contain eye-witness testimony.
 
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DominvsVobiscvm:
This is not traditional Catholic thinking at all, but the rankest materialism. *How many souls is Sister Lucia bringing to heaven * by her life of prayer, sacrifice, poverty, chastity, and obedience?!?!?!?!? This has got to be the most ludicrous objection I’ve ever heard. I’d expect it from a Modernist, not a fellow traditionalist!
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I don’t understand how this is modernist thinking. I believe when Sister Lucia gets to Heaven her prayers for the rest of us will be even more effective. All I know is Our Lady has helped my so much over the last four years, that I intend to do the Communion of Reparations again and again. This is my last post on this thread, I think enough has been said.
 
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DominvsVobiscvm:
Documentation, please? If this were the case, he could have gone through the proper channels to get it done. Apparently, hedidn’t. Or he wouldn’t be suspended.
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As I said, I don’t know why he was called by his bishop…If you believe that it was because of his teachings on Fatima being heretical, then shouldn’t you be the one producing the documentation?

He did go through the proper channels as far as I know and even contacting the Vatican and sending them a letter of why it was impossible for him to comply with the order. He didn’t get a response and he publicly published his letter in his Fatima Crusader. The issue is online. I’ll look it up tomorrow if you want to take a look at it.

Miguel.
 
Domini Canis:
Good. That’s clear…He was not suspended for his teachings on Fatima or heresy.

Mare, agreed? 😉

Miguel.
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Not exactly Miguel! More like this quote.
DV:
Father Gruner, after he began preaching against the Holy Father and Sister Lucia, was ordered by his bishop to return to hid diocese; he was warned that he would be suspended if he refused.

He refused anyway.

As I said, heresy is one thing. Even a Father of the Church can commit it out of ignorance. Willful disobedience to one’s lawful superior is far worse.

In Gruner’s defense, he was only re-echoing the disobedience of his own spiritual father: “Non serviam!”
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Could not have said it better myself.
 
What could he have been doing that would make such a command “impossible” to follow? C’mon . …

And* even if * it was, the obedient and commonsensical thing for him to do would be to return to his diocese, and not leave until he was reconciled to his bishop and regained his faculties.

Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that out.
 
*Not exactly Miguel! More like this quote. *

I’m trying to establish some common ground here, might want to throw me a bone here 😉

If you don’t exactly agree with the above (that he was suspended because he didn’t return to his diocese by order) then what reason do you believe, was for his suspension?

Miguel. 🙂
 
Domini Canis:
He did go through the proper channels as far as I know and even contacting the Vatican and sending them a letter of why it was impossible for him to comply with the order. He didn’t get a response and he publicly published his letter in his Fatima Crusader. The issue is online. I’ll look it up tomorrow if you want to take a look at it.

Miguel.
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He said? He published his letter? We know all that. He says nothing but smoke and mirrors. It is his website and his smoke and mirrors again that you are buying into. Thats His favorite ploy! :rolleyes:
 
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Miguel:
I’m trying to establish some common ground here, might want to throw me a bone here

If you don’t exactly agree with the above (that he was suspended because he didn’t return to his diocese by order) then what reason do you believe, was for his suspension?

Miguel.
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DominvsVobiscvm:
What could he have been doing that would make such a command “impossible” to follow? C’mon . …

And* even if * it was, the obedient and commonsensical thing for him to do would be to return to his diocese, and not leave until he was reconciled to his bishop and regained his faculties.

Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that out.
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DominvsVobisacvm stated that as well as I could Miguel. That is my take on Gruner also. I guess that is about as Common ground as I can give you. 🙂
 
Not exactly Miguel! More like this quote.
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I’m trying to establish some common ground, might want to throw me a bone here 😉

If you don’t exactly agree with the above (that he was suspended because he didn’t return to his diocese by order) then what reason do you believe, was for his suspension?
He said? He published his letter? We know all that. He says nothing but smoke and mirrors. It is his website and his smoke and mirrors again that you are buying into. Thats His favorite ploy!
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What exactly did he write that was smoke and mirrors mare?

Miguel. 🙂
 
Domini Canis:
I’m trying to establish some common ground, might want to throw me a bone here 😉

If you don’t exactly agree with the above (that he was suspended because he didn’t return to his diocese by order) then what reason do you believe, was for his suspension?

What exactly did he write that was smoke and mirrors mare?

Miguel. 🙂
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The entire thing son. And by the way…my name is Marie, not Mare. I have a mare but she is in the barn where she belongs. 😃
 
What could he have been doing that would make such a command “impossible” to follow? C’mon . …
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I said he was in an unusual situation. If he goes back to his diocese he would face deportation. The Vatican told him to find some other bishop to incardinate him and he did, three in fact; doing what the Vatican asked him to.
And even if it was, the obedient and commonsensical thing for him to do would be to return to his diocese, and not leave until he was reconciled to his bishop and regained his faculties.
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I agree; that’s why I said I don’t agree with how Fr. Gruner is going about his suspension.

Miguel.
 
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Marie:
The entire thing son. And by the way…my name is Marie, not Mare. I have a mare but she is in the barn where she belongs. 😃
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Sorry, Marie; I’m just used to calling another Mary that I talk to online “Mare”. 🙂

The entire thing? I’m sure that not everything he say’s is smoke and mirrors…What reason do you believe he has to lie?

Miguel.
 
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DominvsVobiscvm:
Can you prove this? The article at least seems to contain eye-witness testimony.
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Are you kidding, I can barely prove my own existence! 😃

Two things, one I am Portugese, and I can assure you nothing like that is going on! Second, contact Father Fox through his web site,
fatimafamily.org he is THE MAN…

Joao
 
Domini Canis:
Sorry, Marie; I’m just used to calling another Mary that I talk to online “Mare”. 🙂

The entire thing? I’m sure that not everything he say’s is smoke and mirrors…What reason do you believe he has to lie?

Miguel.
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The same reason Karl gave you earlier tonight. That and I believe that as I have personally spent well over 50 years following our ladies direction and Fatima. Gruner is NOT what I have been devoted to for these many years. I think I have enough discernment to know to follow JIP and the Church and not a Johnny come lately disobedient priest such as Gruner. I do not think Our Lady called me to disobedience and she expects me to be faithful not follow every little rumor and nere do well who comes along.

Gruner is just one of many who have done so throughout the years. I keep my eye on the cross, rosary in hand, and follow Holy Mother church.
 
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