Holding hands at the Lord's Prayer

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Beverly, the rubrics are there to make sure the mass is celebrated with the reverence due to God. Also, the communal meal aspect does not take away from the fact that the mass is a Holy Sacrafice, sadly the Sacrafical nature of the mass in terms of externals has diminished as horizontalisation has moved forward such as handholding during the Lords prayer.

Want community interaction, there is plenty of time for that AFTER mass, and ironically, at the parishes I have bene to that to try to push a community aspect, were the parishes where everyone goes home after mass.
 
Personally, I’ve stopped participating in this unless I personally know the person to my right/left, and feel “like family” with them, and know that they feel comfortable doing so.

But here is where I think the problem lies. We are ALL supposed to be family for one another! We’re brothers and sisters, let’s start acting like it! And I know that theologically the Eucharist is where we come together in the fullest of communion, but this does need to have practical implications. I LOVE the holding hands because to me it is the one part of Mass where we actually act like family. Even at the sign of peace so many people act like they couldn’t care less about you or shaking your hand. I think we’ve all had those limp, finger-holding handshakes. It drives me nuts! And I love raising our joined hands at the end, because we’re glorifying the Lord. Think about what we’re saying “For the kingdom, the power, and the GLORY are yours, now and forever!” I mean, that’s exciting stuff! And how often the psalms talk about our raising our hands in praise.

I also want to point out that in the Early Church, Christians gave each other a KISS ON THE MOUTH at the sign of peace. I mean, and we’re afraid of holding hands because it’s too romantic??? Something’s a little off here…

In Him,
jp2fan
 
I really think that most people that attends/worships at Mass are missing the ‘point’ when they hold hands, hug, shake hands,etc with their neighbor …the ‘point’ of Mass is where God and man meet and offer friendship’s hand; not to each other, but to God.
 
Yes, JNB, I know why the rubrics are there, as guidelines. They don’t say you CAN hold hands and they don’t say you CAN’T hold hands. This is the same reasoning that the Church of Christ uses to not allow musical instruments in church music. There is no mention of musical instruments in praising God in the New Testament so therefore you can not play a piano in the Church of Christ. Not a logical argument to me just as it is not necessarily logical to me that because it doesn’t say yes or no to holding hands we can’t . It is just as logical to say it doesn’t say yes or no to holding hands so we can. Whether I hold hands or not does not have anything to do with my reverence toward the Blessed Sacrament. Wouldn’t it be nice if the Pope would just put out a statement but then I am sure what he said would still not be as important as the rubrics? But again, I will take Scripture over the rubrics anyday…1Corinthians 13 - The greatest of these is LOVE… ❤️
 
"the ‘point’ of Mass is where God and man meet and offer friendship’s hand; not to each other, but to God. "

Whoa, that’s quite the misconception there. It’s called ‘communion’ for a reason. Of course we are in union with God, but we are also in the most intimate communion amongst ourselves. As I’ve heard it said, it’s not just about God and me, it’s about God and we. (catchy, no?) anyways, I think it’s important not to get too individualistic in our worship in the Mass.

jp2fan
 
In our parish we have several abuses like this. My way of dealing with it is to go along with whatever the Priest promotes. He has the responsibility and authority in our parish. I so not stop there, every time the abuse comes to mind, I pray for the priest. He is a good priest in many other ways and I want God to bless him. God loves obedience more that sacrifice. It is the trickle up theory, if I am obedient to his authority, he may be more inclined to be obedient to the Bishops.
 
Beverly, sorry, but again, there are reasons why Rubrics exist, and if you ignore rubrics in favor of your own interperation of scipture, to justify these things, that is a very Protestant attitude you are taking.

JP2fan, you need to realise mass is a sacrafice, it is not about being in communion with each other, we do not go to mass to worship each other, but God. Again, there is plenty of time for community AFTER mass.

To be blunt, many of these attitudes show why liturgy is such a mess today, and why so many people no longer believe in the real presence.
 
jnb-

That’s kind of insulting, don’t you think? Please don’t presume to know what I do and don’t know about the Mass. Of course, it is a sacrifice. However it is also a celebration! It is both, and to only focus on one aspect is to miss part of the picture. And of course we are not worshipping each other, rather we are joining our hands and worshipping with one voice our Father. Remember, Jesus taught us to pray OUR Father. We praise with one voice, that’s the point of the Mass. I think the holding hands just emphasizes our connection to each other that comes through the Eucharist. And I’ll say again, that in the Early Church, they kissed each other on the mouth! And y’all are worried about us holding hands?

jp2fan
 
I agree, that post did come across as insulting. This issue really evokes a lot of emotion!
 
Sorry to be blunt, but I stand by what I said. As for early church, many claims have been made, but the burden of proof is on those who makes those claims. I will say that the Maronites liturgy is amoung the oldest liturgy of the church, celebrated in the language of Christ himself, and it hardly resmbles the almost Protestant like setting of so many parishes today in how the mass is celebrated in. Even some Lutherans in many cases in terms of externals have a service that is closer to Catholic tradition than many parishes today.

As for the Pope and what he says about the liturgy, if there werent problems, the document on the mass would not have been issued a couple of months ago.

In any event, as more people are made aware of this issues, I expect the hand holding in many parishes to die down during the Lords Prayer.
 
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Agnes:
Then, about a year ago, at my small local church, where they still do the hand-holding, during the sign of peace a woman visiting from a large urban town could not resist whispering to me, “You are all so behind the times here! The Vatican instituted this hand-holding years ago, but now the Pope has changed his mind and we’re not supposed to be doing it anymore.” (So it came from the Holy See, no less!)
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I believe this lady was mistaken. I’d have to see the documentation before I’d believe it.

Just call me Doubting Thomas.
 
JNP, why is there no way to discuss this without it dwindling down into judging other people’s faith? If anyone who knew me were to hear someone say I am acting like a Protestant they would laugh. However, since my in-laws are Protestant and I do have great respect for some of them and their relationship with God, that is okay. I happen to have a very fervent belief in the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist and great reverence for the sacrifice of the Mass. I also am obedient to the rubrics and do not hold hands during the Lord’s Prayer unless someone reaches out to me which almost never happens as the choir I sing in is also obedient to the rubrics. I just refuse to judge someone if they want to hold hands or to get angry and offended as so many on this forum seem to be. I think that we should treat each other with love and respect and in doing so, we are not worshipping each other but honoring God.
 
holding hands is kitschy and has a protestant or even showbizlike look at me feel to it. For me, it detracts from the Mass’s solemnity and is a symbol of the elevation of community and horizontal relationships among men over worship and the vertical relationship of man to God. In my parish, about 20% of the parishioners do it and another 20% or so love to mimic the priest by holding their hands on high. What I don’t understand is why the priests never comment on these and other liturgical abuses and anomalies. Now that Pentecost has come, you’d think some priests would find the courage to teach.
 
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JNB:
As for the Pope and what he says about the liturgy, if there werent problems, the document on the mass would not have been issued a couple of months ago.
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I wonder…Does this document mention hand holding?? :rolleyes:
Look, I don’t like holding hands either. I am a stoic, reserved German in Minnesota, ya betcha. BUT, for heaven’s sake they are simply asking to hold your hand. I don’t offer mine, but if they offer their hand, I shouldn’t refuse it. What is more Catholic than “offering up” your discomfort as a prayer that this person will achieve salvation along with you?
If a stranger holding your hand distracts you from the Mass, imagine how distracting it is when someone has a simple gesture of kindness rebuked.
BTW, this practice is not proscribed by the rubrics. It is not a part of the Mass, but it is not banned either.
 
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swampfox:
holding hands is kitschy and has a protestant or even showbizlike look at me feel to it. For me, it detracts from the Mass’s solemnity and is a symbol of the elevation of community and horizontal relationships among men over worship and the vertical relationship of man to God. .
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Talk about the Mass becoming Protestant, I would say that saying that the communal ‘horizontal’ aspect of Mass is unimportant is quite a Protestant point of view. I once heard a priest say, “Just as the Cross would be incomplete without the horizontal, so is our faith.” Something to think about.

jp2fan
 
Our parish held hands during the Our Father for years, and it never bothered me. I always respected the rights of others NOT to hold hands, and it was not a problem.
Now, we hold our hands in the ornas position (I hold mine palms up), and I have to say that I like it. OTOH, if I am attending a Mass in a parish that still holds hands during the Our Father, I go along with it, unless I see that it only families and close friends who are doing it. I guess this is a sort of non-issue for me…
 
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jp2fan:
Talk about the Mass becoming Protestant, I would say that saying that the communal ‘horizontal’ aspect of Mass is unimportant is quite a Protestant point of view. I once heard a priest say, “Just as the Cross would be incomplete without the horizontal, so is our faith.” Something to think about.

jp2fan
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**I agree…It seems to me that we often forget the importace of our faith being both horizontal as well as vertical. Each is essential to the other, and we need them both to fully experience our faith. **
 
As far as the Protestant connotations of this gesture:
Not everything Protestant is bad. One thing that they do much better in their churches is foster a sense of ‘community’. IMO, the Catholic Church is weak in this dept. I daresay, a number of people have left the Catholic Church because their emotional needs for community were not being met.

I think that we should be open to learning from our Protestant Brethren. We shouldn’t be reactionary at cultural influences on our church from them. IMO, this hand holding thing is largely a cultural preference, and yes, it probably originated because of infuence from Protestantism. We live in an expressive culture that has been influenced from people all over the world.

Protestantism, for one thing, tends to be very adaptable. Look at African American churches, with their lively expressions of faith. Look at tent revivals and the charismatic movement. Not everyone in this world is a staid German or Englishman. Some cultures prefer foot stomin’ worship and praise. It’d be nice if we could include these expressions of faith in our church as well.
 
One of the dangers of knowing the rubrics is the “small abuses” that we might see or hear during Mass. Nothing terrible or nothing that makes the Mass invalid, but things that we might know that go against the rubrics or the GIRM. Whether it be certain postures or gestures, or the priest inserting a word here or there in a prayer. Or not saying the embolism after the Lord’s Prayer, or skipping the lavabo. I see these things in many parishes.
We shouldn’t allow such abuses to upset us to the point that we fail to concentrate on the Mass. My parish has all these abuses and the church is also in the round so that everyone can see everyone else and when a child misbehaves etc… Can be a real mess! When I first became aware of these abuses, it really bothered me. Bothered me to the point of distraction at Mass. But now I have decided it is best to not worry about the small things.

Regarding hand holding, the “Our” in the Our Father indicates that we are all brothers and sisters. When I read all the comments in this thread, it seems we forget that.
Chapter 2792 of the CCC days-- Finally, if we pray the Our Father sincerely, we leave individualism behind, because the love that we receive frees us from it. The “our” at the beginning of the Lord’s Prayer, like the “us” of the last four petitions, excludes no one. If we are to say it truthfully, our divisions and oppositions have to be overcome. 🙂
 
Tantum ergo:
but we’ve got ANOTHER little abuse going on right along with the hand-holding at the Our Father-- and THAT is the “orans” posture.
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I assume this person is refering to “lifting up your hands”. Is this discouraged also?

Thanks!
 
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