Holy Father knocked down at Midnight Mass

[nahbios]

Just lit a candle for them and said prayers for all three.

 

[JReducation]

Having attended theology in Rome and many masses at the Vatican, one has to be realistic here. There is a very good security system at the Vatican. However, we must remember that this is the Pope, not the Queen of England or the President of the United States. The popes don’t want to be over protected. They enjoy being close to the people.

If you have ever been to a papal mass at the Vatican the first thing that you notice is that the Holy Father and the other clerics walk across the back of the basilica and while doing so they are greeting the people. As they come down the aisle they are only about 10-15 feet away from the congregation on both sides. There are no barriers except for a type of “rail” for lack of a better word. Right behind the main altar to the left, if you’re facing the altar, there is more seating for the faithful. It’s an overflow area. These folks are practically on the sanctuary.

There is no way that they can predict who will show up for a papal mass, papal audience at the Paul VI Auditorium or at the midday address to the world. When the pope stands at the window, he’s a direct target for any good sniper.

What I’m trying to say is that this is the way that the popes want it. They don’t like the security detail. What they have, they have becaues the Swiss Guard and the Italian police are very insistant. Were it up to the popes, they wouldn’t even have as much restrictive access as they do have.

Even with all of this protection, there are so many stories of popes sneaking out of the Vatican, without an escort, to walk the streets of Rome. John XXIII was once discovered by the police when the Vatican sounded the alarm that the pope was missing. No one knows how many times he had done this before anyone realized that he was doing it.

John Paul II used to go skiing and stand in line with other skiers waiting his turn to get on the lift. Once in a while someone would recognize him. He never took a security contingent when he did this.

Benedict likes to go for walks and be alone. Rumor has it that when he’s at his summer residence he escapes to go for a walk without security.

Then there are the important people who work at the Vatican who are out and about all over the city. If someone wanted to do a lot of harm they could easily hold one of them for ransom. Msgr. Georg goes out to dinner several times a week, to play tennis, fly a plane and he leaves without a security contingency.

The bottom line here is that the security detail is not the problem. The problem is that the popes do not want to have physical barriers between them and the people of God. They are willing to take these risks. If we stop and think about it, the violence or attempted violent acts against popes is small by comparison to what it could be. The behind the scenes work must be very thorough.

We love our popes and want them safe, but we also want them to be happy. No one wants them to feel as if they are in a bubble.

A blessed Christmas to all,

Br. JR, OSF :christmastree1:

 

[VisionaryOne]

You should read the comments on YouTube. Ghastly to say the least.

 

[canadianguy1143]

Having attended theology in Rome and many masses at the Vatican, one has to be realistic here. There is a very good security system at the Vatican.

With all due respect Br. JR, you are not a security expert so don’t venture opinions that you know nothing about. A repeated offender was permitted entry to the St. Peter’s. That is unacceptable and experts have said that security is lax.

However, we must remember that this is the Pope, not the Queen of England or the President of the United States.

Again I beg to differ. The Pope is the Head of State for the Vatican and the leader for over 1 billion people. He deserves the same protection as the President or the Queen.

The popes don’t want to be over protected. They enjoy being close to the people.

After Pope John Paul was shot in 1981, he wisely accepted the Popemobile (bullet proof glass car).

There is no way that they can predict who will show up for a papal mass, papal audience at the Paul VI Auditorium or at the midday address to the world. When the pope stands at the window, he’s a direct target for any good sniper.

I would surely hope that there is a metal detector because as these cases point out, he is at risk.

What I’m trying to say is that this is the way that the popes want it. They don’t like the security detail. What they have, they have becaues the Swiss Guard and the Italian police are very insistant. Were it up to the popes, they wouldn’t even have as much restrictive access as they do have.

I believe that security detail should be independent of the person whom is being protected. Its my understanding that the Secret Service is not directly answerable to the President of the USA for the protection that it gives. President’s of course do have some freedom but there is a bottom line that the Secret Service gives, regardless of the President’s wishes.

The bottom line here is that the security detail is not the problem. The problem is that the popes do not want to have physical barriers between them and the people of God. They are willing to take these risks. If we stop and think about it, the violence or attempted violent acts against popes is small by comparison to what it could be. The behind the scenes work must be very thorough.

All it takes is one incident. Actually we had one: May 13, 1981. Also consider that in light of the recent Al-Qaeda attack on that plane, and the fact that Al-Qaeda has threatened the Pope, that we must take security seriously.

We love our popes and want them safe, but we also want them to be happy. No one wants them to feel as if they are in a bubble.

I think it is very loving that we want God to decide when their life ends, not some assassin’s bullet or terrorist organization’s desire. I think that is true love.

 

[canadianguy1143]

An unnamed source gives some more clarity as to what happened:

A senior Vatican source at the service who asked not to be named, said:”The fact this woman is known and was still able to get through security is very, very serious.

”All the people who were inside St Peter’s had invitations and so would have had to be checked and give their names. This woman was able to get through these checks as well as the airport style metal detectors.

”The Pope’s guards were able to drag her away but the sense of shock in the Basilica was amazing - there was a huge gasp, no-one could believe what was happening.

”We are talking about a frail 82 year old man being knocked to the ground - it could be anyone’s grandfather and if this lady was known and did this last year then this is a major security breach.”

telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/vaticancityandholysee/6884911/Pope-Benedict-XVIs-security-under-review-after-attack.html

 

[JRKH]

I was watching the EWTN broadcast of the Mass yesterday, and was quite astonished at the incident. I am praying for the woman who did this. From the news reports I have read, she has “psychiatric issues” and certainly needs our prayers. In some of the footage I saw, she was tackled by the security officers immediately upon leaping over the barriers. I do hope she wasn’t injured in the attack. I am truly thankful that the Holy Father was not injured when he fell.

I agree with this poster. Instead of beating on security and how much the world hates us, we should be praying for this woman.

I would ask eachof us to look at how people pressed against our dear Lord, and how he treated these people and how he treated those who tried to keep Him from them and them trom Him.

I’m not saying that there should not be a review of security, but let’s remember that the fate of the Pope is in the hands of God, and not the Swiss Guards.

Peace
James

 

[StrawberryJam]

I agree with this poster. Instead of beating on security and how much the world hates us, we should be praying for this woman.

I would ask eachof us to look at how people pressed against our dear Lord, and how he treated these people and how he treated those who tried to keep Him from them and them trom Him.

I’m not saying that there should not be a review of security, but let’s remember that the fate of the Pope is in the hands of God, and not the Swiss Guards.

Peace
James

Sounds off topic, but I want to share with you a story about a Mass I went to a few weeks ago. It was a weekday Mass, where the majority people are older. Apparently these nice older folks think that because they are in church they can leave their purses wide open and out in plain view while at Mass, and no one will steal anything because they are in God’s house after all. After Mass, the priest told everyone there were a few cases where people’s purses or money was taken when they went up to recieve communion. I always go up with everyone else, but with my arms crossed now that I am out of the wheelchair. But, it always bothered me that people left their belongings behind like that. I just told myself it’s because I am cynical and don’t believe yet that I would imagine their things being at risk for theft. The priest reminded everyone that they should not expect God to take care of their belongings in Church, and must be responsible with their goods.
I think it can become very easy to be too relaxed about things in a Holy enviornment. You should still use the same common sense you do in church as you do out of it.
So, while the fate of the Pope’s life may be as you say in God’s hands that does not preclude the best security for him until that day arrives.
I was reading a bit more about the Swiss Guard, and stumbled upon a story that happened a few years back involving a love triangle and suicide with one of the very top. Maybe they are still shaken up over that event?
The pope is essentially the head of your (or the world’s in your theology) family in a spiritual father sense. You as christians have a duty to your family, especially your papa.
You should be clamoring for the very best, just as God said to honor your father, and mother. Allowing your papa to have less than what can be given to him is not honoring him much.

 

[DihydrogenOxide]

It wouldn’t surprise me if she was possessed.

 

[didymus]

from NCR:

after relating some security breaches he witnessed reporter JohnAllen concludes:

First, the pope is supposed to be a pastor and a shepherd of souls. Popes want to be accessible to people, and therefore tend to resist measures that would isolate them. Second, popes are also true believers, who regard their fate as ultimately in the hands of God. John Paul II, for instance, was profoundly convinced that on May 13, 1981, the Feast of Our Lady of Fatima and the day of Mehmet Ali Agca’s assassination attempt, the Virgin Mary changed the flight path of a bullet to preserve his life and ministry. Given that supernatural frame of reference, popes (and, to some extent, their advisors) tend to invest comparatively less time worrying about the details of security arrangements.
While that psychology is understandable and even noble, it also can have the effect of putting the pope at risk, as the Christmas Eve lapse illustrates.

That may be something especially worth thinking about with regard to Pope Benedict XVI, who remains in strikingly good health for a man of 82, but who is nevertheless becoming, bit by bit, more prone to exhaustion and frailty. The Vatican moved up the pope’s “midnight Mass” this year to 10:00 pm, precisely to conserve his strength before his lengthy Urbi et Orbi blessing on Christmas Morning. Had it been Benedict with the broken leg rather than retired French Cardinal Roger Etchegaray, however, that extra two hours in bed probably wouldn’t have done him much good.

In the wake of this latest incident, in other words, there may be a growing consensus in the Vatican that the security membrane around the pope needs to become at least a little bit thicker.

Even Presidents have been known to chafe at the security imposed on them and Allen may be right that Pap Benedict and other Popes have limited how much security can protect them.
Let’s hope that will be better protected in future, though secrity can’t be toot tight – he simply can’t do his job from behind a wall of bodyguards.

 

[JRKH]

Sounds off topic, but I want to share with you a story about a Mass I went to a few weeks ago. It was a weekday Mass, where the majority people are older. Apparently these nice older folks think that because they are in church they can leave their purses wide open and out in plain view while at Mass, and no one will steal anything because they are in God’s house after all. After Mass, the priest told everyone there were a few cases where people’s purses or money was taken when they went up to recieve communion. I always go up with everyone else, but with my arms crossed now that I am out of the wheelchair. But, it always bothered me that people left their belongings behind like that. I just told myself it’s because I am cynical and don’t believe yet that I would imagine their things being at risk for theft. The priest reminded everyone that they should not expect God to take care of their belongings in Church, and must be responsible with their goods.

We also had a situation a couple of years ago where several parishes had their Sunday collections stolen right from the foot of the altar after mass. The offering was taken up during mass as usual. Then somehow, when everyone was leaving church, milling about etc., someone evidently just walked up and helped themselves and no one noticed.

Yes, it is certainly possible to be robbed in Church and taking reasonable precautions is fine. Just so long as we con’t lose sight of being Christian in the process. Christ tells us to give and even give extra, to got he extra mile, to pray for those spitefully use us etc.

I think it can become very easy to be too relaxed about things in a Holy enviornment. You should still use the same common sense you do in church as you do out of it.

I’d rather we used more “Christ” sense than “common” sense.

So, while the fate of the Pope’s life may be as you say in God’s hands that does not preclude the best security for him until that day arrives.

Agreed. But it seems sad that the people who should believe the most in divine protection Divine Will should be the very people who want the pope so protected that he can barely touch people. I know - I know - The world is a dangerous place and the pope’s position today is very different than in Peter’s day, but still I can’t help but be saddened by it.

The pope is essentially the head of your (or the world’s in your theology) family in a spiritual father sense. You as christians have a duty to your family, especially your papa.
You should be clamoring for the very best, just as God said to honor your father, and mother. Allowing your papa to have less than what can be given to him is not honoring him much.

I am reminded of the story about the woman with the hemorage who had to fight to get close enough to Jesus just to touch the hem of his cloak. I am also reminded of the blind man who cried out for Jesus to have pity on him even though the diciples were trying to silence him. In both cases Jesus took pity and cured these people. Telling the woman that “her faith had healed her”. Does the Holy father really want and need to be protected so much that such as these cannot reach Him? If so what does it say for our faith.

Who knows what this woman had in mind when she jumped the rail. Was hers an act of violence or a plea for mercy? Was it an act of dispair or one of faith?

As time goes on more will be known. Perhaps this woman will be cured of her disease by her faith - I don’t know.
I hope that we will keep This woman in our prayers, as well as those who protect the Holy Father, and the Holy Father Himself.

Peace
James

 

[ma1achi]

The incident was reported live during the Mass by the commentator on EWTN. Does anyone know that name of the Irish priest providing the commentary to the EWTN telecast?

 

[nice2000]

I agree Linda. I am so thankful the Pope wasn’t hurt, and my heart goes out to the Cardinal who apparently broke his hip (according to an article I read) - I pray he heals quickly. But I’m also praying for this woman. Mental illness is such a terrible cross to bear.

Yes, we must pray for the Cardinal as well. I saw on the news this morning that the Cardinal broke his hip.

I agree, pray for the mentally ill woman too. Very sad.

 

[redrosetea]

I am sure if the Holy Father wished for tighter security he would have it

My guess is it is the last thing any pope wants…They want people to be able to see them and not to look like some ruler surround by secret service

 

[Timbothefiveth]

I am in the mood to throw a few punches at some of these detractors. Just a little physical instruction for their own good, of course.

Forgive them and pray for them, it will do much more good.

 

[AngelinaV]

I just learned today on Fox News that the Pope is fine. Apparently when he fell down, he fell on her so breaking his fall. Thank God. We must pray for the Holy Father’s safety always.

 

[steveleeder]

Its so sad and sickening that we live in a world where people have no respect for the elderly.Even if people aren’t Catholic,human decency would indicate that you just don’t bowl over someone in their 80s!!!
Thank God our blessed Pope is ok!
It reminds me of St. Paul warning to St. Timothy,
2 Timothy 3 You must understand this, that in the last days distressing times will come. For people will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, inhuman, implacable, slanderers, profligates, brutes, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to the outward form of godliness but denying its power. Avoid them!

 

[StrawberryJam]

If she is mentally ill, none of that may apply to her. Shifting the blame to the mentally ill person is not the way to go according to what I have learned on the Moral Theology forum so far.

 

[pismopal]

I was a brand new Catholic on my first St Peter’s visit and I was dazzled at the open atmosphere…welcoming all who were decently dressed. I would not like to see obtrusive security that ruins that aura. If someone really wants to harm the most holy place in Christianity or the Holy Father it can be done. The measures needed to insure/guarantee security would effectively close the Vatican and St Peter’s to the public. What a travesty that would be…and to no avail. One thing I am confident of is that that lunatic female will not be there next year…she has worn out her welcome

 

[redrosetea]

Exactly it is a house of God…We can’t control everything that is going to happen to us, at some point we must just trust God and ask for His will to be done

I feel very sorry for the poor Cardinal with the broken leg…I think he is 87, not a good thing to have a broken bone at that age…Please remember him in your prayers…It is a pity there isn’t a way to send him a card and good wishes

The woman that did this is more to be pitied than scorned…just think if it were you how would you hope others would treat you…she is ill, and but for the grace of God any of us could be in her shoes…My guess is she loves the pope and doesn’t want to hurt him, she just can’t control her actions…Let’s hope this time she gets the help she needs

 

[sidbrown]

The woman that did this is more to be pitied than scorned…just think if it were you how would you hope others would treat you…she is ill, and but for the grace of God any of us could be in her shoes…My guess is she loves the pope and doesn’t want to hurt him, she just can’t control her actions…Let’s hope this time she gets the help she needs

Why is that? She is making problems for everyone else since now security will be tightened and people will lose time and patience as they were hoping to be able to pray at a Mass celebrated by the Pope. She should be locked up for life otherwise she is a danger to our Holy Father and other leaders of the Church. As far as helping her, people can visit her in prison and read some passages from the Bible to her while she is locked in her cage unable to harm anyone.