"homosexual person" myth or Truth

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Bookcat said:
Question: Does the Magisterium teach that “anyone is incapable
of OSA”

Answer: No the Magisterium does not teach that. And this is what your missing.

It has been demonstrated that your simply not correct in your premise.
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Right. And further, we may add;

Question: Does the Chuch take as a premise that some people “experience attractions exclusively to the same sex”?

Answer: Yes, because that is what many people report as their experience and there is no contradicting evidence.

Question: Does the Church teach anything about the prevalence or manner in which SSA manifests itself in persons, or its potential for treatment, or its permanent or transitory nature?

Answer: No, these are not matters of Church competency.

Question: Is the moral teaching of the Church true, and independent of people’s “experience” of SSA?

Answer: Yes.
 
Rau said:
Right. And further, we may add;

Question: Does the Chuch take as a premise that some people “experience attractions exclusively to the same sex”?

Answer: Yes, because that is what many people report as their experience and there is no contradicting evidence.

Question: Does the Church teach anything about the prevalence or manner in which SSA manifests itself in persons, or its potential for treatment, or its permanent or transitory nature?

Answer: No, these are not matters of Church competency.

Question: Is the moral teaching of the Church true, and independent of people’s “experience” of SSA?

Answer: Yes.
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👍
The Church is not doing science here, it is expressing itself in response to the issue.
 
Rau said:
Right. And further, we may add;

Question: Does the Chuch take as a premise that some people “experience attractions exclusively to the same sex”?

Answer: Yes, because that is what many people report as their experience and there is no contradicting evidence.

The question of “evidence” is moot -for the Church is teaching here about morality not about emp. science. So even if there was evidence either way -the fact that persons express that they “experience” this or that - the Church is addressing that subjective experience - and saying - this is what you are to do. This is how a Christian is to live etc.

…

Question: Is the moral teaching of the Church true, and independent of people’s “experience” of SSA?

Answer: Yes

Exactly! - the morality section of the Catechism is Teaching about MORALITY…to be lived not matter what a person may subjectively “experience”
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ShanPO said:
People have told you here they are incapable of OSA, on this very thread. Do you not believe them?
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I can not tell you what brought an individual to where they are now I believe anything good is possible
with Grace from the Lord. I don’t believe anyone is incapable of OSA.

God bless
 
Bookcat - I was referring to no evidence that they lie about their experience. Thus, it is indeed their experience and can be referenced as such.
 
jjr9 said:
I can not tell you what brought an individual to where they are now I believe anything good is possible
with Grace from the Lord. I don’t believe anyone is incapable of OSA.

God bless
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So do you believe that there are people who currently experience no form of OSA?
 
jjr9 said:
I can not tell you what brought an individual to where they are now I believe anything good is possible with Grace from the Lord. I don’t believe anyone is incapable of OSA.

God bless
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He didn’t ask about “why”. He asked “do you believe them?”.
 
Rau said:
Bookcat - I was referring to no evidence that they lie about their experience. Thus, it is indeed their experience and can be referenced as such.
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I thought you were referring otherwise.
 
jjr9 said:
I don’t believe anyone is incapable of OSA.
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Yes one may believe that.

As noted up above the Magisterium of the Catholic Church is **not **Teaching that any persons are incapable of OSA.

So you may *dismiss *your concern.
 
ShanPO said:
So do you believe that there are people who currently experience no form of OSA?
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I believe people can pursue SSA, OSA or neither it is their freewill. I believe
no one has exclusive SSA or incapable of OSA. I hope we all have time with
no form of sexual attraction in prayer with the Lord.

God bless
 
jjr9 said:
I believe people can pursue SSA, OSA or neither it is their freewill. I believe
no one has exclusive SSA or incapable of OSA. I hope we all have time with
no form of sexual attraction in prayer with the Lord.

God bless
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Not what I asked, and I think if you answer the question I asked, it will contradict your entire premise.
 
TheAmazingGrace said:
A homosexual person is a person who is attracted to members of the same sex, and that’s all that the Catechism means by that term. I don’t see why that’s so hard to understand.
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Right; and since all mankind are equal in the eyes of our Creator. Why discuss this?
 
jjr9 said:
I believe people can pursue SSA, OSA or neither it is their freewill.
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One must first experience the attraction in order to pursue it. That is simple logic. It may also be that a person experiences no sexual attractions at all (“asexual”).

However, one could choose to pursue sexual activity of any kind if one is suitably determined.

This discussion is about the experiencing of attractions, not the wilful determination to pursue immoral sexual acts.
 
ShanPO said:
Not what I asked, and I think if you answer the question I asked, it will contradict your entire premise.
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I did answer your question. You did not like my answer.
Of course there are “people who currently experience no form of OSA” it does not
follow they are incapable of OSA or never have experienced OSA. I believe no one
is incapable of OSA.

God bless
 
jjr9 said:
…Of course there are “people who currently experience no form of OSA”
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Assuming by “currently”, you don’t mean in some “moment”, but rather in some moderately persistent fashion. Eg. A man who might be 26 years of age, and has not ever experienced the usual attractions to women. So these persons might be asexual? Or perhaps they are experiencing exclusively SSA? And of course, these observations are silent on the question of what might be possible.
 
ShanPO said:
I can only take what jjr9 has said at face value and believe it. So the extent of my knowledge comes from the experience I’ve had of his sharing his beliefs with us. However, we’re not discussing epistemology here. jjr9 has made a claim about something he believes to be true, and because he has argued it for almost 350 posts now (and several other threads from what I’ve read here) I feel that’s good enough evidence to feel secure that he really believes what he’s saying.

So again, if he hears from several sources that they only experience SSA and have no predisposition to OSA at all it’s up to him to accept or reject it, which apparently he firmly rejects. The issue with rejecting that first hand knowledge is that it discounts the experience of the individual sharing it, rendering them non-existent in his opinion. It reminds me of when I hear idiot white supremacists say things like the Holocaust didn’t happen, even though we have personal first hand testimony that it has.

jjr9 has an issue with the wording in the CCC regarding something that is very much a non-issue to almost everyone he’s asked about this, and my suggestion is that he realizes that he’s wrong in his thinking and move on and direct that passion to something else that actually matters.
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Actually jjr9 only posted 47 times on this thread (which is still a lot of course). Other posters have contributed hundreds of posts that attempt to help jjr9, but I don’t see jjr changing his views. So I have to wonder what jjr has done to earn himself so much attention. Hmmm.
 
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