Honest Apostasy -- Leaving the Church

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" Do not complain about the speck in your neighbor’s eye when you can’t see the plank in your own."

Doubt these exiles were ever listening.
 
brian_custer said:
catholic priests were hung by the neck from wires in slovakia at the end of wwii. a canadian catholic from that region whose family was forced to immigrate there told me so

i wish i was making this up
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I’m sure you’re not.

But if we’re all going with the faith that has suffered most in history, then we’re all Jews. No discussion needed.
 
Not necessarily. Episcopalians in the US are Anglicans. And use the terms interchangeably.
 
Or maybe it was about Jesus and they didn’t see him reflected in what the RCC has become in this scandal riddled time?
 
Padres1969 said:
Episcopalians in the US are Anglicans. And use the terms interchangeably.
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Um, not always. I thought this too until
A) one of the Anglicans on this forum explained otherwise and
B) an Anglican church sprang up in my US hometown, which has already had an Episcopal church for decades. The new Anglican church was totally separate from the Episcopal church and is actually sharing the Lutheran church with the local Lutherans rather than sharing the Episcopal church building with the Episcopalians.
 
The Anglican who you spoke to may have been mistaken. I’m Anglican, I’m also Episcopalian. The Episcopal Church is the US member church of the worldwide Anglican Communion and in communion with the See of Canterbury and is thus an Anglican Church.

The Anglican Church that sprang up in your town is likely an ACNA Church. The ACNA are also Anglican, though not directly part of the Anglican Communion. Though they are in communion with provinces of the greater Anglican Communion located in Africa.
 
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It’s possible they don’t. Some find it difficult to find something a wonderful as Christ being able to spring from people who are acting in such evil and despicable ways as those involved in the scandals and those protecting them.
 
Then did they ever really know Christ or His Church? How does one, for example, go from being a public Catholic speaker and writer on Church teachings to abandoning Him?
 
gracepoole said:
Then did they ever really know Christ or His Church? How does one, for example, go from being a public Catholic speaker and writer on Church teachings to abandoning Him?
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This has been a phenomenon throughout Church History. Origen was a celebrated bishop before he became involved in heresy. To my knowledge he died separated from the Church. Sometimes there’s something in their lifestyle that conflicts with Church teaching, and they ultimately chose their sin over God. Sometimes, their faith is too tied up in the people, and not in Christ’s promises. Sometimes living the life just becomes harder than they want to deal with. Sometimes, they have challenge after challenge after challenge that makes them genuinely question God’s presence…
 
Dude you are the church. That’s a poor one if the support was that non-existent. We are fortunate to have all the support you could want in our parish. If you are there maybe you should take that role. At least advocate for it in your parish.

Sad sack view.
 
Many of the changes being made in the Church over time makes it very difficult to have faith
 
The writer of the linked article calls what the two bloggers have done in leaving the Church an “honest apostasy.” Because they no longer believe what the Church teaches (perhaps never believed it) and so they left. He seems to worry about those who are in apostasy (through non-belief) and yet stay in the Church because their apostasy has more power to damage the Church from the inside.
 
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Simple. They don’t think they are abandoning him.

Now that may not be an answer some Catholics will like or even comprehend. But it doesn’t mean it’s not the case for those individuals (I should know 😉 )
 
So what causes such a tremendous rupture in belief as to go from fervent belief in the True Presence to complete disbelief in it? What could drive someone to believe he’s at the foot of the cross with Christ during the consecration to disbelieving this? Surely it can’t be other Catholics.
 
Well I can’t speak for others, but the true presence, or potentially lack of presence, in the Eucharist wasn’t a huge factor for me in leaving.

Christ being fully present in any gathering of those who did so in his name was awing enough for me. And from my POV I’m not absent his presence in the Eucharist either outside the RCC even in the Eucharistic sense.

Rather some of the bigger factors revolved around the loss of moral and spiritual authority that he Catholic Church has endured due to a near century of heinous abuses by those claiming to stand in for Christ. I’ve never been able to divorce the men (top to bottom from several Popes down through the conspiracy of silence), from their spiritual role. And digging deeper into history I found that the last century was not an aberration. (And please don’t take this the wrong way as I’m well aware abuse of position, sexual or otherwise, is hardly a Catholic exclusive trait in Christianity).
 
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gracepoole said:
So what causes such a tremendous rupture in belief as to go from fervent belief in the True Presence to complete disbelief in it? What could drive someone to believe he’s at the foot of the cross with Christ during the consecration to disbelieving this? Surely it can’t be other Catholics.
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Maybe they went to a church that also believes in the true presence. It’s not just a Catholic belief.
 
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