How and why to pray through Mary?

[paramedicgirl]

The Communion of Saints take in ‘all’ who believe in Jesus Christ as their Savior. We pray for each other, but not to departed saints. They cannot hear our prayers. Can you offer a passage from the Bible that teaches this practice?

God bless,
jean

Glad you asked. Here are a few passages that you may have missed:

2 Thessalonians 1:11 **Wherefore also we pray always for you; **that our God would make you worthy of his vocation, and fulfill all the good pleasure of his goodness and the work of faith in power; 12 That the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in him, according to the grace of our God, and of the Lord Jesus Christ.

and:
Ephesians 6:18** By all prayer and supplication **praying at all times in the spirit; and in the same watching with all instance and supplication for all the saints:

and:
Tobias 12:12 (Where an angel presents Tobit’s and Sarah’s prayers to God)
When thou didst pray with tears, and didst bury the dead, and didst leave thy dinner, and hide the dead by day in thy house, and bury them by night, I offered thy prayer to the Lord.

also"
Revelations 5:8 And when he had opened the book, the four living creatures, and the four and twenty ancients fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints: “(The prayers of saints”… Here we see that the saints in heaven offer up to Christ the prayers of the faithful upon earth)…

 

[paramedicgirl]

One reason to pray directly to God the Father is He knows what we need before we ask him.
He is also omnipresent. Mary does not have the attributes of God.the Father. Can she hear all of the prayers that are being offered to her?? the Bible is silent on this teaching.
The Bible also has a prayer for us given by Jesus in Mt.6:9-13

God bless,
jean

You are right - Mary does not possess the attributes of God, and Catholics do not say that she does. God has chosen to honour Mary, and he has blessed her for all time. (1 Luke 1 48 Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.)

Mary can hear and respond to our prayers only through the grace of God. When Jesus said, Behold thy mother, He gave Mary to all of mankind as our mother and intercessor. Through Mary’s fiat we received Jesus Christ, by whose merits we obtain all graces, and it is through God’s grace that we have Mary as our intercessor. She prays for us, and Jesus honours her prayers.

Do you think it is possible for Jesus, who instituted the ten commandments to not honour His mother? I would not want to stand before Him on judgment day and try to explain why I had disregard for his Mother.

By the way, the Our Father is not the only prayer found in the Bible.The Hail Mary is also Biblical, (Luke1:28) starting with the angel Gabriel’s "Hail full of grace, blessed art thou among women" and Luke 1:42, 43 where Elizabeth’s calls Mary the Mother of God and adds to the prayer by saying: *And she cried out with a loud voice, and said: Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. 43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? *

And if you want to get really Biblical, you could always pray the Magnificat, a prayer composed by Mary herself and recorded in Luke 1:46-55
*
46 And Mary said: My soul doth magnify the Lord. 47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. 48 Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. 49 Because he that is mighty, hath done great things to me; and holy is his name. 50 And his mercy is from generation unto generations, to them that fear him.

(48 “Shall call me blessed”… These words are a prediction of that honour which the church in all ages should pay to the Blessed Virgin. Let Protestants examine whether they are any way concerned in this prophecy.)

51 He hath showed might in his arm: he hath scattered the proud in the conceit of their heart. 52 He hath put down the mighty from their seat, and hath exalted the humble. 53 He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away. 54 He hath received Israel his servant, being mindful of his mercy: 55 As he spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to his seed for ever. *

 

[Good_Fella]

Yes, Jesus can speak to anyone he wishes. We as mortals cannot.

jean

Is that so? :coffeeread:

“Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word!” { Psalm 103, 20 }

The angels whom David invokes are as much across the threshold as the saints who have preceded us in heaven and hear our petitions.

Pax vobiscum
Good Fella

 

[peary]

I understand that the church would not call this communication with the dead in a occult sense but nevertheless it is a form of communication with the dead when you pray to them and expect them to hear your prayers and do something about them.

Not at all.

 

[Good_Fella]

One reason to pray directly to God the Father is He knows what we need before we ask him.
He is also omnipresent. Mary does not have the attributes of God.the Father. Can she hear all of the prayers that are being offered to her?? the Bible is silent on this teaching.
The Bible also has a prayer for us given by Jesus in Mt.6:9-13

God bless,
jean

Is that so? :coffeeread:

When you ask your pastor or any Christian layperson to say a prayer for you, do you ask yourself whether you should ask them at all, when recollecting that your fellow brethren do not possess God’s attributes and that you believe we are instructed to only pray to God directly?

By your reasoning, we may as well refrain from praying for others, regardless of whether they ask us to, since the proper thing to do would be to let them turn to God directly on their own initiative. But if Moses had not interceded on behalf of the rebellious and wicked Israelites, God may have destroyed them [Exodus 32, 11-14]. God relented on account of Moses’ mediation, so it would appear that He desires that we pray for others. God did not tell Moses that He would withold his wrath on condition that the Israelites first turn directly to him in a spirit of repentance. Indeed, Samuel believed that he would be sinning against God if he stopped interceding for the Israelites [1 Samuel 12, 23]. I’m afraid there is nothing wrong with asking righteous people to pray for us, seeing that God wishes that we pray and mediate for each other; for we are one human family in Christ. Paul did exhort the Ephesians to pray for one another [Eph 6, 18].

All who belong to the mystical Body of Christ are either in heaven or on earth as one family of God [Eph 3, 14-15]. So both the saints in heaven and the righteous faithful on earth can intercede for us upon hearing our prayers and witnessing our spiritual needs [Hebrews 12, 1]. Although they have crossed the threshold between this life and the next, the saints in heaven are still united with us on earth [Col 1, 12; 2 Thess 1, 10; Rev 5, 8]. The mystical Body of Christ is not constrained by time and space. Eternity surrounds and envelops physical time and space. Jesus spoke to the departed Moses and Elijah and Saul spoke to Samuel after the prophet had left this world before appearing to him [Sm 28, 12-19]. Does it matter whether we can see the saints in heaven? :coffeeread: Not at all. Paul assures us that they surround us and are in our midst by the very fact they witness what we do on earth.

Mary does not possess the divine attributes of God the Father, but she exists with him in eternity, having already been resurrected from the dead. She is the only person besides Jesus who exists both body and soul in heaven as a result of her glorious Assumption. Thus she can hear the prayers of every single Christian on earth at the same time relative to our physical existence. According to Scripture: “Beloved, we are God’s children now; what we shall be has not yet been revealed. We do know that when it is revealed we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is” [1 John 3, 2]. Paul concurs: “Just as we have borne the image of the earthly one, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly one” [1 Cor 15, 49].

The Bible has another prayer given to us by the Word. The first half of it was originally written by Luke in Aramaic:

Shlom lekh bthoolto Mariam
Maliath taibootho
moran a ’ amekh

“Hail, (Mary) full of grace. The Lord is with you.”
{Luke 1, 28}

mbarakhto at bneshey
wambarakhoo feero dabkharsekh Yeshue

“Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb (Jesus).”
{Luke 1, 42}

The second half of ‘The Hail Mary’ ( Shlomo Malakhoyo) is just as scriptural:

O qadeeshto Mariam
yoldath alho

Holy Mary, Mother of God,

“And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?”
{ Luke 1, 43 }

saloy hlofain hatoyeh
hosho wabsho’ath mawtan
Amin.

Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen

When the wine ran short, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.”
{ John 2, 3 }

First of all, then, I ask that supplications, prayers, petitions, and thanksgivings be offered up for everyone…This is good and pleasing to God our saviour, who wills everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of truth. { 1 Timothy 2, 1-4}

“But God forbid that any in this fair assembly should appear there suffering such things; but by the prayers of the holy fathers, correcting all our offences, and having shown forth the abundant fruit of virtue, may we depart hence with much confidence.”
John Chrysostom ( A.D. 387 )

Do we approach the Father on our terms or His? :coffeeread:

Pax vobiscum
Good Fella

 

[peary]

Originally Posted by jean8
One reason to pray directly to God the Father is He knows what we need before we ask him.

All Catholic Christians do this. But God desires us to intercede for each other by praying for one another. That’s biblical. St. Paul encourages this in his letters. You cannot separate the Communion of Saints in Heaven from the Communion of the Faithful on earth. Revelation tells us that much.

He is also omnipresent. Mary does not have the attributes of God.the Father. Can she hear all of the prayers that are being offered to her?? the Bible is silent on this teaching.

Where in the Bible does it specifically state that the saints in Heaven cannot pray for us and cannot hear our supplications?

The Bible also has a prayer for us given by Jesus in Mt.6:9-13

God bless,
jean

**The Bible also has Mary’s prayer of praise - the Magnificat (Luke 1:46-55). And even prior to this passage the Bible clearly states: “…and Elizabeth, filled with the Holy Spirit, cried out in a loud voice and said, ‘Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!’”

Now, if Elizabeth, filled with the HOLY SPIRIT said these words (which are of the Spirit Himself), then I see no reason why we cannot be ‘filled’ with the Holy Spirit when we say these same words. It’s in the Bible, and you cannot have it both ways.**

 

[ZEEBEE]

Others explained the saints are alive part but to help with why ask Mary to pray for us (intercede), someone explain it to me this way. Who better than to ask Mary, the mother Jesus adores above all others, to pray for us and in turn Jesus listens to her prayers. Of course, prayers thru Mary should not replace praying to our Lord. God Bless.

 

[GailMac]

I think someone should change the name of this thread to “How and why NOT to pray through Mary.” And the answer would be to “prove” you’re NOT Catholic. It has been my experience that many of our protestant brothers and sisters in Christ simply reject Marian doctrine to “prove” they aren’t Catholic. And when pressed for answers will point to the Scriptures to back themselves up. I say again this is only my own observation. You may see it another way.

But I know one thing, when I get into a conversation f2f with another person about God and stuff and they find out I’m Catholic, if I want to end the conversation, all I have to do is bring up the Mary “stuff” and the conversation changes instantly, and usually to one of hostility. They believe in Jesus and that’s all they want to believe - PERIOD - end of conversation. By rejecting the Mother of God, they distance themselves from Catholics. So why would they want to pray to her for her intercession - that is much too Catholic and a member of their denomination might catch them at it and think they are being subverted or something.

It is also my own observation that when a person finally and honestly accepts Jesus as LORD, they almost automatically accept all the Church teaches and want to learn more and more about Him. This is usally the fruit of loving God openly and honestly. It naturally follows and is beautiful to witness the unfolding of another heart to Him. Then there are no more debates - it is simply over! Then if you speak to them they aren’t so much about WHAT to believe but rather HOW to believe. Instead they seem to cry out all the more, Lord, I do believe heal my unbelief!

I think some of the folks here should read more of the stories of people who have converted and see where on the spectrum they lie in relation to what they believe and how others got across the bridge from peril to safety.

Like I’ve said before, I can’t imagine NOT praying to Mary. Life without Mary wouldn’t be life at all. I’d be an orphan and Jesus said He wouldn’t leave us orphans. I love my Mother. I pray for the conversion of sinners everyday and hope that someday our brothers and sisters in Christ will take the plunge and trust that what we’ve gotten right for over 2000 years is right for them too!

Peace,

Gail

 

[Marian_Devotee]

Great post, Gail! I feel the same way you do about being strongly devoted to Our Lady.

 

[Always_For_Him]

Why has it become practice for Protestants to reject Marian doctrine (or much of our doctrine, Sacred Tradition, etc…) to separate themselves from the Catholic Church? Why is it that they need to “separate” themselves from us? Didn’t that happen when the split happened? If they are Protestant, they are no longer Catholic. Luther believed in Marian doctrine, Sacred Tradition, and so much more of our doctrine. He founded Protestantism on it! Why then, are the beliefs so different from ours now? (Other than the obvious changes by the reformers.)

 

[Always_For_Him]

Good Fella, Peary and Gail Mac, (and others, but most recently) what astoundingly said, powerful, and completely perfect posts!

 

[Always_For_Him]

There was a great article in the Times magazine a couple of years ago discussing the resurgence of Marian doctrine into the Protestant Churches. I wish the article was longer and could have covered more. There of course, are the hold-out, never going to believe it, Protestants. But, mostly, they are realizing the error of distancing themselves from the Holy Mother of God. I have that magazine around here somewhere, so if anyone would like to know which one, just let me know and I will give you that inforrmation or copy the article for you.

 

[Good_Fella]

Good Fella, Peary and Gail Mac, (and others, but most recently) what astoundingly said, powerful, and completely perfect posts!

We are more than happy to defend the spiritual integrity of our Blessed Mother, Always For Him - and Her.

“Hail to thee, Mary, Mother of God, to whom in towns and villages and in island were founded churches of true believers.”
Cyril of Alexandria (ante A.D. 444)

Pax vobiscum
Good Fella

 

[jean8]

We are more than happy to defend the spiritual integrity of our Blessed Mother, Always For Him - and Her.

“Hail to thee, Mary, Mother of God, to whom in towns and villages and in island were founded churches of true believers.”
Cyril of Alexandria (ante A.D. 444)

Pax vobiscum
Good Fella

good fella,
Mary certainly is a special person. She was chosen to give birth to the Son of God.
However, She is not omnipresent. she cannot hear the prayers that are directed to her. The scriptures teach we are to pray to God the Father and ask in the name of Jesus Christ.
Praying to departed saints, you have the same problem. They can’t hear you.
I’ll be happy to pray for you.

jean8

 

[paramedicgirl]

good fella,
Mary certainly is a special person. She was chosen to give birth to the Son of God.
However, She is not omnipresent. she cannot hear the prayers that are directed to her. The scriptures teach we are to pray to God the Father and ask in the name of Jesus Christ.
Praying to departed saints, you have the same problem. They can’t hear you.
I’ll be happy to pray for you.

jean8

Jean, you are either skipping over the well-thought out and very excellent posts where many Catholics have gone to the trouble of explaining the doctrine of Mary to you, or you are here at CAF for a personal agenda. Not one person here (with the exception of yourself) had said that the Blessed Virgin is omnipresent. If you re-read this thread, you should have a pretty clear idea of what Catholics really believe about Mary. What we have tried to do is dispel the misunderstandings that you (and others) have, and give you a clear picture of our reason for devotion to Mary.

 

[LilyM]

good fella,
Mary certainly is a special person. She was chosen to give birth to the Son of God.
However, She is not omnipresent. she cannot hear the prayers that are directed to her. The scriptures teach we are to pray to God the Father and ask in the name of Jesus Christ.
Praying to departed saints, you have the same problem. They can’t hear you.
I’ll be happy to pray for you.

jean8

Glad the almighty’s seen fit to reveal this to you, Jean. He certainly didn’t reveal it to St Paul, who asked for prayers for Onesiphorus in 1 Timothy. Onesiphorus appears to have been deceased at the time (he is referred to in the past tense).

Nor when Paul told us that we constantly have a ‘cloud of witnesses’ around us. Tell me, would you call someone a witness to your life if they could not hear or see what you were doing? So it doesn’t make sense that the heavenly saints, who are indeed your ‘cloud of witnesses’, can be witnesses unless they can hear you.

 

[peary]

For jean8 - do you read anyone’s posts in here?? To reiterate:

Originally Posted by** jean8 **
One reason to pray directly to God the Father is He knows what we need before we ask him.

All Catholic Christians do this. But God desires us to intercede for each other by praying for one another. That’s biblical. St. Paul encourages this in his letters. You cannot separate the Communion of Saints in Heaven from the Communion of the Faithful on earth. Revelation tells us that much.

He is also omnipresent. Mary does not have the attributes of God.the Father. Can she hear all of the prayers that are being offered to her?? the Bible is silent on this teaching.

Where in the Bible does it specifically state that the saints in Heaven cannot pray for us and cannot hear our supplications?
And where in the Bible does it EVER say that Mary is omnipresent? Do you even know what that word means?

The Bible also has a prayer for us given by Jesus in Mt.6:9-13

God bless,
jean

**The Bible also has Mary’s prayer of praise - the Magnificat (Luke 1:46-55). And even prior to this passage the Bible clearly states: “…and Elizabeth, filled with the Holy Spirit, cried out in a loud voice and said, ‘Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!’”

Now, if Elizabeth, filled with the HOLY SPIRIT said these words (which are of the Spirit Himself), then I see no reason why we cannot be ‘filled’ with the Holy Spirit when we say these same words. It’s in the Bible, and you cannot have it both ways.**

 

[Holly3278]

Why? Because "The prayer of a righteous man is powerful & effective.” (James 5:16)

I don’t know exactly when it started, but there is a ton of evidence that the practice began very early.

Perhaps this article will help explain it.

catholic.com/library/Praying_to_the_Saints.asp

Additionally, the Bible Christian Society has a very good set of MP3 talks including one on the Communion of Saints. I recommend checking it out!

biblechristiansociety.com/download

God bless,

Chris

Good answer Chris!

 

[Good_Fella]

good fella,
Mary certainly is a special person. She was chosen to give birth to the Son of God.
However, She is not omnipresent. she cannot hear the prayers that are directed to her. The scriptures teach we are to pray to God the Father and ask in the name of Jesus Christ.
Praying to departed saints, you have the same problem. They can’t hear you.
I’ll be happy to pray for you.

jean8

Thank you for offering to pray for me. But there’s no need, since I can go directly to God the Father. Besides, Mary is already praying for me, and she is the most powerful intercessor between me and her Divine Son.

I take it you don’t even pray directly to Jesus so that he doesn’t come between you and our heavenly Father.

Mary and the Saints do not have to be omnipresent to hear our prayers at once. It is sufficient that they exist in eternity beside real time and space. In the music industry up to 24 different songs from independent sources can be recorded through multi-tracking the information that is being transmitted to and received all at once by a single device. The process occurs beside real time.

Pax vobiscum
Good Fella

 

[Holly3278]

Thank you for offering to pray for me. But there’s no need, since I can go directly to God the Father. Besides, Mary is already praying for me, and she is the most powerful intrecessor between me and her Divine Son.

I take it you don’t even pray directly to Jesus so that he doesn’t come between you and our heavenly Father.

Mary and the Saints do not have to be omnipresent to hear our prayers at once. It is sufficient that they exist in eternity beside real time and space. In the music industry up to 24 different songs from independent sources can be recorded through multi-tracking the information that is being transmitted to and received all at once by a single device. The process occurs beside real time.

Pax vobiscum
Good Fella

Exactly! Mary, being the most righteous person to ever live besides Jesus, is the most powerful intercessor we have! And yes, she can hear our prayers. Otherwise, how would she pray for us? I know that the Catholic Church is the one true Church and that it is has infallibly taught the Communion of the Saints since at least AD 157. I am sure it was taught well before then actually. I just could not find a quote from earlier than then.