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Protestant101
Guest
I see you have been scouring the internet for every professing truth monger that opposes Adventists, and that you have, in your travels acquired some good sources for ‘smilies.’ Atleast you are industrious!!
You, as a Catholic, who “has the truth” are resorting to cult “ministries” which, in some cases, are very “anti-Catholic” in their ministry" and you are using them as “evidence.” That is really interesting to me; for your Church claims to have the truth, yet you resort to ministries who we both agree do not have truth. Where is the Catholic evidence to say what you do about Adventists? Would official Catholic teachings agree with these whacky ministries?
Cult Myths Exposed
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guanophore
Guest
I have heard this before. What puzzles me is that Jesus said His Flesh was true food, and His Blood True Drink. Then He said that He would give His flesh for the life of the world.I already do that…Its called reading and studying the Bible.
What I don’t get is, if He was talking about the Bible, then did He give the Bible for the life of the world?
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guanophore
Guest
I have to confess I have no idea what you are talking about.
about your website:I hope, at some point, you will be willing to learn a bit more about your family history. If you do, you will find that scholarship was preserved by Catholic Monasteries, and that there is a plethora of religious orders dedicated to teaching people how to question, think critically, do inductive study, and reason properly.
You will also find that the university system was created by the Catholic Church. I think you have formed these opinions on misinformation.
This makes sense. Since the Catholic Church was that founded by Christ, and all others define themselves from how they differ from her, it makes sense that she would be in the best position to identify the departures from the Apostolic Teaching.
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Realcatholicgk
Guest
I see you have been scouring the internet for every professing truth monger that opposes Adventists, and that you have, in your travels acquired some good sources for ‘smilies.’ At least you are industrious!!
**I have probably read more about SDA in the last 48 hours then you could have in the past 6 months and actually retain most of it! But you are the expert so teach us!**
You, as a Catholic, who “has the truth” are resorting to cult “ministries” which, in some cases, are very “anti-Catholic” in their ministry" and you are using them as “evidence.”
Did I call that evidence? I said it was things we should know. Shouldn’t we know the lies as well as the truth? How are we to decide if or exactly how crazy your cult really is? what did you think of the last three paragraphs of the “Click Here First” Button. It is always about the Money, isn’t it?
That is really interesting to me; for your Church claims to have the truth, yet you resort to ministries who we both agree do not have truth.
**
And don’t get angry! That is immature at best. Stand up for the religion you know and love! **
Where is the Catholic evidence to say what you do about Adventists?
** Oh, sorry, I thought you met Marsha Adams? **
Would official Catholic teachings agree with these whacky ministries?
**Honesty? Maybe maybe not! I do know that even nuts sometimes say something that is true! That is what is interesting about talking to protestants and cultist, some are smart others are blinded by hate or misinformation. We try to help them all understand us. Don’t you think you should try to help us understand you. How else can we try to help you save your soul from damnation, my Friend?
“My enemy’s enemy is my friend” – Abe Lincoln. **
Not that we are enemys except in your cult’s eyes! I love you and like to debate. I won’t let the “mean” catholics hurt you, I promise! I actually think you can be saved.
God Bless!
Cult Myths Exposed
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Marsha_Adams
Guest
Quanophore:
Even more interesting, Jesus’ “Bible” only consisted of the Torah so half of His “body and blood” didn’t even exist until several years after Jesus’ death.
Add to that the fact that bread and wine were included in the Tabernacle God had the Israelites build, as were the 10 Commandments and the book of Deuteronomy (the words of the Covenant). So clearly the “Bible” in terms of Tabernacle symbolism was separate from the bread and wine which Jesus referred to as His Body and Blood.
Marsha
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Marsha_Adams
Guest
By the way, for those on this thread who refer to the SDA denomination as a cult, I understand probably better than any of you the urge to call that sect a cult. It is an urge that I have to fight constantly. However, the Polish Council of Bishops have declared that the SDA denomination is not a cult
. I do not understand why they declared this
, but in keeping with obedience to the Teaching Authority of the Church I accept their statement on faith.
Therefore, the Church teaches that SDAs are not a cult.
Marsha
. I do not understand why they declared this , but in keeping with obedience to the Teaching Authority of the Church I accept their statement on faith.Therefore, the Church teaches that SDAs are not a cult.
Marsha
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guanophore
Guest
Well, with all due respect to the Polish Council of Bishops, this is, like the American Council, a shepherding body. Although it is incumbent upon them to uphold the Teaching of the Church, they are not the body that originates that teaching, which comes from the Magesterium (college of bishops/cardinals in union with the Pope). There have been some local councils who have made decisions not consistent with the Church teaching.By the way, for those on this thread who refer to the SDA denomination as a cult, I understand probably better than any of you the urge to call that sect a cult. It is an urge that I have to fight constantly. However, the Polish Council of Bishops have declared that the SDA denomination is not a cult
Therefore, the Church teaches that SDAs are not a cult.
Marsha
Personally, it really doesn’t matter to me if it is called a cult or a denomination, but it seems to me that it is very indoctrinating, and difficult from which to get extracted. You would know this better than anyone! In what ways do you find it like a cult?
One of the marks that I see, especially on the link to Protestant101’s anti-Catholic website, is that cults find their cohesion in what they are opposed to, as much as what the embrace. On that website, it is clear that SDA defines istself primarily by what it is not.
I have also noticed, since the arrival of Protestant101, that this login is reflective of a mindset stemming from the Reformation where splinter groups define themselves by how they depart from Apostolic teaching.
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Marsha_Adams
Guest
What you say is true, but the Office of Bishop does contain teaching authority to the extent that it does not disagree with the Magisterium. Therefore, unless the Vatican issues a statement to the contrary, I will side with the Polish Bishops.
Actually, it isn’t all that difficult to leave the SDA denomination if you are not totally indoctrinated. Note the following quote from the Wikipedia article “Criticism of the Seventh Day Adventist Church”.
- Their emphasis on EGW for Scriptural Interpretation.
- In order to understand their prophetic interpretations you have to accept their distortions of history, e.g. the ten toes in Daniel 2 are the 10 barbarian tribes, except there were dozens of barbarian tribes.
- Items 1 and 2 leads to an almost gnostic attitude of “We have the truth because we have secret knowledge no one else has.”
- They claim a literal interpretation of Scripture until it becomes inconvenient to do so (they are not alone among Protestants in this).
- The doctrine of the Investigative Judgement which is an outgrowth of the distortion of the Mass.
- The belief that Jesus and and the Holy Spirit are not equal to the Father. The SDA pioneers were semi-arians.
- The belief that Jesus and the Archangel Michael are the same person.
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Realcatholicgk
Guest
Well if you cant trust a Pollock who can you trust? Actually until the United States Cinference of Bishops or the Vatican says differentI will go with my Webster’s Dictionary. It defines Cult as:By the way, for those on this thread who refer to the SDA denomination as a cult, I understand probably better than any of you the urge to call that sect a cult. It is an urge that I have to fight constantly. However, the Polish Council of Bishops have declared that the SDA denomination is not a cult
Therefore, the Church teaches that SDAs are not a cult.
Marsha
"1. A system of religious worship or ritual.
**"2. devoted attachment to, or extravagant admiration for a person, principle, etc., especially when regarded as a fad… **
**“3. a group of followers; sect.” **
Webster says of the word sect:
"1. A group of people having a common leadership, set of opinions, philosophical doctrine, etc.
**"2. Any group holding certain views, political principles, etc. in common.
“3. A religious denomination especially a small group that has broken away from an established church.” **
So if it quacks, walks, and flys like one, I will call a duck a duck.
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guanophore
Guest
What is this? I have never heard of this.
po18guy
Well-known member
I say forget the terms “cult” and “sect”! They are canards that de-rail threads. The SDA is not Apostolic, has never been in its very short history and cannot achieve that goal at this or any future point. It was, is, and shall remain heresy, pure and simple. Well intentioned? Of course. But, remember that the military definition of good intentions is “friendly fire”. You are still full of bullet holes, but they are not to blame, as they thought you were the enemy.
Where dies scripture alone claim, state, infer, or otherwise assert that Jesus and Michael the Archangel are one and the same? This is blasphemous! Archangels are creations, so the SDA believe that Christ is not eternal, but rather a creation of the father. What is created can be destroyed. That kills it for me.
Where dies scripture alone claim, state, infer, or otherwise assert that Jesus and Michael the Archangel are one and the same? This is blasphemous! Archangels are creations, so the SDA believe that Christ is not eternal, but rather a creation of the father. What is created can be destroyed. That kills it for me.
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Realcatholicgk
Guest
**We wouldn’t even have to consider them “christian” at all if they baptised in the name of “The Father, Michael the Archangel, and the Holy Spirit.” Hmmm, they could make changes to fundamental belief Number 2 and 3 . That would amke sure we never confused them with real christians again!
. ****Hey 101, could do us a favor? Could you check and see if they will eliminate Jesus’ name and put Michael the Archangel in the baptismal ceremonies Please??
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Protestant101
Guest
You’re sure workin hard at somethin here man…(I don’t know what) Maybe I can make you smile for a change:**Hey 101, could do us a favor? Could you check and see if they will eliminate Jesus’ name and put Michael the Archangel in the baptismal ceremonies Please??
I STAND ON THE WORD OF GOD
Notice the three smiles…that’s me, myself, and I.
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Realcatholicgk
Guest
**Hi guan, Marsha may be busy. I will try to explain. **
Of course 101 will correct me if I am wrong and Marsha can verify what I say as being true or not. (101 will lie to Catholic’s It is something that they are taught to do for some strange reason! Just remember that it isn’t really (name removed by moderator)ortant we are use to liars here anyway.)
**In 1843 and again in 1844 the SDA foolish expected the literal second coming of Christ to happen. They normally won’t admit that their 1844 “investigative judgment” teaching was born out of an attempt to cover over this false prophecy. I mean they were standing out in the streets waiting for jesus. He didn’t come, they recalaculated and tried again. He didn’t come, so they
sent him somewhere else?" Instead of repenting over the two false date, they teach that Christ really came, but INVISIBLY into heaven. **
So as a SDA you HAVE now entered a period of “investigative judgment” where every deed you do or don’t do is recorded for judgment day. You will even be judged for “idle moments” where you could have been more obedient. When Christ comes, every eye shall see it (Revelation 1:7). At the Judgment Seat of Christ, we will be judged. I Corinthians 3:11-15; II Corinthians 5:10. They teach that we will stand alone before God we of course teach that Jesus will be our mediator before God.
**Does that help? **
101 did I teach it correctly? I too am learning!
God bless!
po18guy
Well-known member
The Essential Catholic Survival Guide and many non-Catholic sources reveal that one William Miller (ex-Baptist and pre-SDA) was the one who predicted the last day would occur in 1843. He proclaimed that all churches were “Apostate” (sound familiar?) and demanded all believers to follow him. He gathered his group (including EGW) together and they waited. Nothing. He recalculated and settled on 1844. After the “great disappointment” of 1844, the Millerite movement fell apart. EGW, long since having suffered a near fatal head injury, spearheaded the reformation of the Millerites, along with her husband James. It morphed into the SDA, with EGW’s “visions” leading to her prolific writings serving as their inspiration. Oh, the bible, too, but, as with the LDS, heavy, primary reliance is placed upon the pronouncements of just one human being who claims to have been inspired.
Now, the very concept of man knowing the last day is 100% anti-biblical. (Matthew 24:36, Mark 13:32) It was pure ego that drove Miller to believe that he had knowledge superior to even the Angels, whose intellect is far superior to our own. From that egotistical beginning in which he assumed to have all knowledge, came further heresy which was only the springboard for numerous other ideas from EGW.
For argument’s sake, let’s say that there are only 20,000 Protestant denominations. 19,999 of them disagree with the SDA. Two are fairly close: The Mormons and the Jehovah’s Witnesses. More accurately, it would be 19,997 to 3. Still not a good ratio.
Ever notice that, the more heretical one’s beliefs, the more assured they are of being absolutely correct?
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Marsha_Adams
Guest
RealCatholic:
While your explanation has a nodding acquaintance with the doctrine of the Investigative Judgement, you would need high power binoculars to see the nod.
After the second great disappointment most of the Millerites abandoned the movement. A few tried to understand what went wrong. The came to the conclusion based on further Bible Study and Hiram Edisons (?) vision that what they the term “cleansing of the sanctuary” that they had interpreted to mean the Second Coming of Christ actually meant the cleansing of the Heavenly Tabernacle which was the pattern for Moses’ tabernacle. They looked at the earthly sanctuary service and saw that at the cleansing of the sanctuary the High priest went into the Holy of Holies. Recognizing that Jesus is our High Priest they decided that on October 22, 1844 He entered the Holy of Holies in the heavenly sanctuary where he began the judgement of the living and the dead. During this judgement Jesus pleads his blood on our behalf. When Jesus completes this, probation will close and He will return. Between the closing of probation and the second comming they teach that we will be without a mediator.
The SDAs will freely admit that the original interpretation of the prophecy regarding the Second Coming was wrong.
Now Catholics also believe in a pre-advent judgement but ours occurs upon our death. Also you will see that what they perceive Jesus to be doing in the Holy of Holies is what we perceive Jesus to be doing during the Mass.
Marsha
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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
No, it isn’t.I already do that…Its called reading and studying the Bible.
Have you read this?
53Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. 57Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever.”
John 6
1 Cor 11
27Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. 29For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself.
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Protestant101
Guest
I thought you were such an authority on SDAs?
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Marsha_Adams
Guest
I am, I’m just really bad with names.
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